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America's Crisis of Trust

dcaraz

dcaraz

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Our democracy is in crisis. We are experiencing a crisis of confidence, and a lack of moral leadership. There are those in power who would have us doubt every aspect of our society. They tell us we can't trust anyone who is red or blue. They attack the agencies of our government. They call our free press the enemy of the people. They tell us to distrust immigrants and our foreign allies. Distrust the CIA. FBI, State Department, Mexican Americans and Muslims. They tell us only to trust them, and those who lie for them. This is dangerous. We should not take it lightly. Divide and conquer is an age-old strategy to defeat an enemy. But a democracy can not stand if its citizens no longer trust each other, its institutions or its principles. America would have lost World War Two if we bickered among ourselves, as we are doing today, rather than unite to defeat the Nazi and Imperial Japan, as we did nearly 80 years ago.

If we want to improve the present, one way we can each make a difference is to be willing to listen to someone who we disagree with. We can try to understand their point of view by discussing our differences--and finding common ground. Listening to--and not demonizing the other--is a first step. It starts when we realize we are all in this together. For better or worst.

Wexner renounces Republican Party after Obama stop in Columbus - News - The Review - Alliance, OH
 
dcaraz said:
Our democracy is in crisis. We are experiencing a crisis of confidence, and a lack of moral leadership. There are those in power who would have us doubt every aspect of our society. They tell us we can't trust anyone who is red or blue. They attack the agencies of our government. They call our free press the enemy of the people. They tell us to distrust immigrants and our foreign allies. Distrust the CIA. FBI, State Department, Mexican Americans and Muslims. They tell us only to trust them, and those who lie for them. This is dangerous. We should not take it lightly. Divide and conquer is an age-old strategy to defeat an enemy. But a democracy can not stand if its citizens no longer trust each other, its institutions or its principles. America would have lost World War Two if we bickered among ourselves, as we are doing today, rather than unite to defeat the Nazi and Imperial Japan, as we did nearly 80 years ago.

If we want to improve the present, one way we can each make a difference is to be willing to listen to someone who we disagree with. We can try to understand their point of view by discussing our differences--and finding common ground. Listening to--and not demonizing the other--is a first step. It starts when we realize we are all in this together. For better or worst.

Wexner renounces Republican Party after Obama stop in Columbus - News - The Review - Alliance, OH
Click to expand...

Whereas going by your post, it's really just the "red" (Republicans) who shouldn't be trusted.

Yeah, this is helpful.
 
dcaraz said:
Our democracy is in crisis. We are experiencing a crisis of confidence, and a lack of moral leadership. There are those in power who would have us doubt every aspect of our society. They tell us we can't trust anyone who is red or blue. They attack the agencies of our government. They call our free press the enemy of the people. They tell us to distrust immigrants and our foreign allies. Distrust the CIA. FBI, State Department, Mexican Americans and Muslims. They tell us only to trust them, and those who lie for them. This is dangerous. We should not take it lightly. Divide and conquer is an age-old strategy to defeat an enemy. But a democracy can not stand if its citizens no longer trust each other, its institutions or its principles. America would have lost World War Two if we bickered among ourselves, as we are doing today, rather than unite to defeat the Nazi and Imperial Japan, as we did nearly 80 years ago.

If we want to improve the present, one way we can each make a difference is to be willing to listen to someone who we disagree with. We can try to understand their point of view by discussing our differences--and finding common ground. Listening to--and not demonizing the other--is a first step. It starts when we realize we are all in this together. For better or worst.

Wexner renounces Republican Party after Obama stop in Columbus - News - The Review - Alliance, OH
Click to expand...

Nice propaganda piece...filled with errors (ex. no one said the "free press is the enemy of the people," it was "FAKE NEWS is the enemy of the people") to support a "those evil people against us good folk" narrative.

If our "democracy" is in a crisis, then IMO it is those who won't let it work and try instead to force changes via "any means necessary resistance" when they don't get their way that is the real threat.



BTW...two years and 23 posts? Where have you been (idly curious)? :)
 
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On some issues, e.g. illegal immigration, compromise is seemingly impossible. One side wants to let foreign nationals who get inside the US be permitted stay as long as they wish and the other side wants only those invited in to be able to do so. I fail to see how a compromise on such an issue is possible.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Nice propaganda piece...filled with errors (ex. no one said the "free press is the enemy of the people," it was "FAKE NEWS is the enemy of the people") to support a "those evil people against us good folk" narrative.

If our "democracy" is in a crisis, then IMO it is those who won't let it work and try instead to force changes via "any means necessary resistance" when they don't get their way that is the real threat.

BTW...two years and 23 posts? Where have you been (idly curious)? :)
Click to expand...


safe_place.jpg
 
Captain Adverse said:
Nice propaganda piece...filled with errors (ex. no one said the "free press is the enemy of the people," it was "FAKE NEWS is the enemy of the people") to support a "those evil people against us good folk" narrative.

If our "democracy" is in a crisis, then IMO it is those who won't let it work and try instead to force changes via "any means necessary resistance" when they don't get their way that is the real threat.



BTW...two years and 23 posts? Where have you been (idly curious)? :)
Click to expand...

Honestly, in most instances Trump has listed what he considers the "fake news" media. Here's one such quote:

"The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!" he wrote.
Click to expand...

So he did take care to leave out Fox. I imagine the omission of the Wapo was just accidental - or maybe a tweety character limit thing.

Trump has always been very clear that any media source that is in any way perceived by DJT to be non-fawning to DJT is "fake news", thus the "enemy of the people".

We all get it, even though some try very hard not to.

I'm still just left shaking my head and watching the show, hoping nothing explodes badly enough to hurt me or anyone I care about. :roll: This is a mess...
 
Frankly, Americans have never trusted government. Not ever. It is part of what makes this nation great. That distrust keeps this nation healthy.

The citizens of this nation did bicker during WWII, and far worse. Some called it Roosevelt's war, trumped up for his aristocratic vision, especially from those who saw themselves as America's aristocrats. They called him a communist and a Jew. They claimed he tricked the Japanese into attacking.

Dillinger was a hero and the Hoover with his FBI were viewed as cowardly assassins. Everyone has been taught to distrust spies, and that is why they never trusted the CIA, more so as they got caught dealing drugs and guns.

There is no crisis threatening the well being of our democracy, other than guys speaking as you do, "we must all be of one mind," like the tyrannical, elitist, totalitarian fascists and communists. It is distrust that keeps us alert, ready willing and able to fight off guys like you. Our country couldn't be further from a crisis of democracy. We the people remain free to participate in the quiet revolution of elections and whatever we feel must be said as part of the process. All this regardless of what you claim. Wexner is just one more grandstanding politician, fearful for his job security and means to line his pockets. He perceives a sinking ship, and like a rat, jumps. Swimming in muddy waters.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
On some issues, e.g. illegal immigration, compromise is seemingly impossible. One side wants to let foreign nationals who get inside the US be permitted stay as long as they wish and the other side wants only those invited in to be able to do so. I fail to see how a compromise on such an issue is possible.
Click to expand...

While I am in agreement with you on this issue (I think), there are many, many issues that loom far larger on my radar. Could be a function of where I live relative to any foreign border tho.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Honestly, in most instances Trump has listed what he considers the "fake news" media. Here's one such quote:



So he did take care to leave out Fox. I imagine the omission of the Wapo was just accidental - or maybe a tweety character limit thing.

Trump has always been very clear that any media source that is in any way perceived by DJT to be non-fawning to DJT is "fake news", thus the "enemy of the people".

We all get it, even though some try very hard not to.

I'm still just left shaking my head and watching the show, hoping nothing explodes badly enough to hurt me or anyone I care about. :roll: This is a mess...
Click to expand...

If you quote please provide a link.

Meanwhile, taking your quote at face value, why do you seem to think listing four or five of the "big names" equates to the entire news/media "press?"

He appears to have left out several major sources, i.e. you noted FOX, WaPo, but forgot the Wall Street Journal, the AP, the UP, US News, and literally hundreds of other independent and semi-independent news agencies around the nation printing papers, televising, and vlogging/posting on the internet.

Just because he may have pointed to several of the "major" sites listed, it is also true that they have been posting nothing but negatively slanted reports ad nauseum including misrepresenting and misleading items. It does not mean he stated that ALL news is "Fake News."

You just chose to see it that way. :shrug:
 
<alt>doxygen said:
While I am in agreement with you on this issue (I think), there are many, many issues that loom far larger on my radar. Could be a function of where I live relative to any foreign border tho.
Click to expand...

The point reamins the same. If party A wants X and party B wants Y then there is no reason to expect the current majority party (whether A or B) to accept Z.
 
dcaraz said:
Our democracy is in crisis. We are experiencing a crisis of confidence, and a lack of moral leadership. There are those in power who would have us doubt every aspect of our society. They tell us we can't trust anyone who is red or blue. They attack the agencies of our government. They call our free press the enemy of the people. They tell us to distrust immigrants and our foreign allies. Distrust the CIA. FBI, State Department, Mexican Americans and Muslims. They tell us only to trust them, and those who lie for them. This is dangerous. We should not take it lightly. Divide and conquer is an age-old strategy to defeat an enemy. But a democracy can not stand if its citizens no longer trust each other, its institutions or its principles. America would have lost World War Two if we bickered among ourselves, as we are doing today, rather than unite to defeat the Nazi and Imperial Japan, as we did nearly 80 years ago.

If we want to improve the present, one way we can each make a difference is to be willing to listen to someone who we disagree with. We can try to understand their point of view by discussing our differences--and finding common ground. Listening to--and not demonizing the other--is a first step. It starts when we realize we are all in this together. For better or worst.

Wexner renounces Republican Party after Obama stop in Columbus - News - The Review - Alliance, OH
Click to expand...

What is dangerous is the mentality in some that the people should not be allowed to vote for the person who will represent them if that representative is not acceptable to those who oppose him/her. And if they manage to vote for an 'unacceptable' person, everything possible must be done to stop that representative from serving and/or to remove that representative if possible.

What is dangerous is distorting the actual issue, i.e. Trump opposes immigration instead of the accurate Trump opposes ILLEGAL immigration or Trump hates Muslims instead of accurate Trump went with a TEMPORARY travel ban from six/seven countries identified by the Obama Administration as terrorist countries or exporters of terrorism, or Trump accuses the media of being the enemy of the people instead of the accurate point that news organizations who promote and put out fake news or that suppress news for political purposes are the enemy of the people.

What is dangerous is promoting a climate where any 'unacceptable' or 'politically correct' point of view must be forbidden or silenced or punished, sometimes violently and/or physically/materially and sheltering students from any exposure to anything that isn't politically correct. That is the literal definition of indoctrination and the opposite of education.
 
AlbqOwl said:
What is dangerous is the mentality in some that the people should not be allowed to vote for the person who will represent them if that representative is not acceptable to those who oppose him/her. And if they manage to vote for an 'unacceptable' person, everything possible must be done to stop that representative from serving and/or to remove that representative if possible.

What is dangerous is distorting the actual issue, i.e. Trump opposes immigration instead of the accurate Trump opposes ILLEGAL immigration or Trump hates Muslims instead of accurate Trump went with a TEMPORARY travel ban from six/seven countries identified by the Obama Administration as terrorist countries or exporters of terrorism, or Trump accuses the media of being the enemy of the people instead of the accurate point that news organizations who promote and put out fake news or that suppress news for political purposes are the enemy of the people.

What is dangerous is promoting a climate where any 'unacceptable' or 'politically correct' point of view must be forbidden or silenced or punished, sometimes violently and/or physically/materially and sheltering students from any exposure to anything that isn't politically correct. That is the literal definition of indoctrination and the opposite of education.
Click to expand...

Can we bookmark posts on DP, because I want to save this!

The level of hysteria and anger is getting more and more concerning to me. I can't even imagine what we'll be subjected to if Trump is re-elected, or if Mueller doesn't deliver his dead on a platter.
 
Acadia said:
Can we bookmark posts on DP, because I want to save this!

The level of hysteria and anger is getting more and more concerning to me. I can't even imagine what we'll be subjected to if Trump is re-elected, or if Mueller doesn't deliver his dead on a platter.
Click to expand...

Well thanks for the compliment. But I like to think that those of us of the more honorable silent majority may have to stop being so silent and be willing to step up and tell it like it really is and make sure honest and good information is being put out. That won't happen from the TDS crowd or the media that includes and parrots that crowd, but I like to think there are a lot more of us than there are of them. We just need to get more involved and restore some honor to the process.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well thanks for the compliment. But I like to think that those of us of the more honorable silent majority may have to stop being so silent and be willing to step up and tell it like it really is and make sure honest and good information is being put out. That won't happen from the TDS crowd or the media that includes and parrots that crowd, but I like to think there are a lot more of us than there are of them. We just need to get more involved and restore some honor to the process.
Click to expand...

Problem is the TDS crowd and the media (which FUELS them) are rabid in propagating their anti-Trump agenda. They believe every anonymous report, every book and every utterance of the hate panels on CNN and MSNBC.
Look at all the major social media platforms. All controlled by the Left.

We are the silent majority, but now, we are actively being silenced. By censorship and having our words twisted so that our every utterance is considered racist and "dog whistle".

I don't know how to compete with their Alinsky tactics.
 
"we must all be of one mind," like the tyrannical, elitist, totalitarian fascists and communists. It is distrust that keeps us alert, ready willing and able to fight off guys like you.
Click to expand...

As one old fat guy to another, your disdain for my point and your need to paint me as some kind of anti-American is another example of today's crisis.
You say guys speaking as I do is the real crisis. And anyone such as Wexner is a "rat" for changing his mind. That's your opinion.
BTW: I don't ascribe to "we must all be of one mind". That's your editorial BS. If you're happy with the mess this president is causing, I don't expect you to agree with me.
Obviously, you prefer throwing grenades at those who have a problem with Trumpism. Too bad. I'm not comfortable having a totally dysfunctional Executive and Legislative Branch, as our
elected government becomes a cult of personality. Unfortunately, the need for name calling isn't going to make America great again.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The point reamins the same. If party A wants X and party B wants Y then there is no reason to expect the current majority party (whether A or B) to accept Z.
Click to expand...

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." some guy named Winston.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Nice propaganda piece...filled with errors (ex. no one said the "free press is the enemy of the people," it was "FAKE NEWS is the enemy of the people") to support a "those evil people against us good folk" narrative.
Click to expand...

When anything the president disagrees with is automatically labeled "fake news", it is an autocrat deciding the news.
The autocrat might as well say that the free press is the enemy of the people at that point.
Casting the discussion in terms of "those evil people" versus "us good folk" is the very core of what is known as "othering", a tactic used to destroy trust in society and its basic institutions. You must fancy yourself a high priest of this "othering" process.

Captain Adverse said:
If our "democracy" is in a crisis, then IMO it is those who won't let it work and try instead to force changes via "any means necessary resistance" when they don't get their way that is the real threat.
Click to expand...

So called "any means necessary resistance" is by its very description a contradiction in terms. Resistance is passive. You must have either made the term up or pasted it from talking points. But I see that by putting the word "democracy" in quotes, you do not actually believe in democracy in the first place. You appear to be mocking it, or pretending that "America is not a democracy", which would mean that we are either on our way to being an oligarchy, an authoritarian autocracy, a theocracy or a dictatorship.
Therefore "IYO" is meaningless, because the representative democracy this republic has depends upon everyone's opinion, expressed at the voting booth, and trust in basic institutions.
With those in jeopardy, demagogues such as yourself are the ones who find "safe spaces".
Thank you for taking the time to stand up and identify yourself.
 
Acadia said:
Can we bookmark posts on DP, because I want to save this!

The level of hysteria and anger is getting more and more concerning to me. I can't even imagine what we'll be subjected to if Trump is re-elected, or if Mueller doesn't deliver his dead on a platter.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind we all owe a thanks to Trump. Concepts and ideas that would have been continued to be swept under the rug, are now in full dialog. The dialog may be down and dirty, but no one ever said politics is clean.

Hysteria - Exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement, especially among a group of people. A psychological disorder (not now regarded as a single definite condition) whose symptoms include conversion of psychological stress into physical symptoms (somatization), selective amnesia, shallow volatile emotions, and overdramatic or attention-seeking behavior.

"The road goes on forever and the party never ends" - Robert Earl Keen



 
ttwtt78640 said:
On some issues, e.g. illegal immigration, compromise is seemingly impossible. One side wants to let foreign nationals who get inside the US be permitted stay as long as they wish and the other side wants only those invited in to be able to do so. I fail to see how a compromise on such an issue is possible.
Click to expand...

So, in your opinion, this "one side" has no range of views on immigration whatsoever, only an absolutist "open borders" position, period, is that what you're really saying?
 
<alt>doxygen said:
I'm still just left shaking my head and watching the show, hoping nothing explodes badly enough to hurt me or anyone I care about. :roll: This is a mess...
Click to expand...

Much as I respect you, apparently there isn't very much you care about, or else you're very well protected, because the explosions have already been happening.
If the former, oh well...at least you're traveling light, and not everyone else can, unfortunately.
If the latter, then lucky you. :)

Only just know this: By the time those explosions DO reach you or those you care about, it will be way too late.
I suspect you already know that deep down, which is why I respect you in the first place.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
So, in your opinion, this "one side" has no range of views on immigration whatsoever, only an absolutist "open borders" position, period, is that what you're really saying?
Click to expand...

I am saying that sanctuary cities and states exist and that many oppose enforcement of current our immigration laws. There may well be a range of positions but you are either for or against granting amnesty to those currently here in violation of our immigration laws.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Frankly, Americans have never trusted government. Not ever. It is part of what makes this nation great. That distrust keeps this nation healthy.

The citizens of this nation did bicker during WWII, and far worse. Some called it Roosevelt's war, trumped up for his aristocratic vision, especially from those who saw themselves as America's aristocrats. They called him a communist and a Jew. They claimed he tricked the Japanese into attacking.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like Lindbergh and Henry Ford and a few other antisemites.
At around the same time, the Klan was also enjoying record membership.

OldFatGuy said:
Dillinger was a hero and the Hoover with his FBI were viewed as cowardly assassins. Everyone has been taught to distrust spies, and that is why they never trusted the CIA, more so as they got caught dealing drugs and guns.
Click to expand...

Dillinger was a hero because he WAS the lefty anarchist's best friend. He was knocking over all the big capitalist banks and setting fire to the institutions of law and order. Nice to know that you identify with that and yet you're former law enforcement. Wow, just wow.

OldFatGuy said:
There is no crisis threatening the well being of our democracy, other than guys speaking as you do, "we must all be of one mind," like the tyrannical, elitist, totalitarian fascists and communists. It is distrust that keeps us alert, ready willing and able to fight off guys like you.
Click to expand...

Three cheers for anarchy. So in other words, if ten or twenty million anarchists and another ten million of their quiet supporters such as yourself can knock it all over, that's healthy, and everyone else be damned?

It's better in Somalia, dude.

But frankly, I kind of like not having to live like it's the Old West or the Dillinger era. I don't shoot at the mailman through the door or fly planes into IRS buildings, or set up secretive mega-churches where I pronounce all other males eunuchs and screw twelve year old girls.
The kind of America you dream of is the kind of America where that sort of thing can flower and thrive...and has in the past.
 
The current political climate does not allow for compromise and common ground. Our two parties have one goal:Win. Every two years it’s a game of whack a mole for party supremacy. Passing meaningful legislation is secondary to appeasing SIGs and funding re-election campaigns. Issues are weapons to club one another over the head with.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I am saying that sanctuary cities and states exist and that many oppose enforcement of current our immigration laws. There may well be a range of positions but you are either for or against granting amnesty to those currently here in violation of our immigration laws.
Click to expand...

If that's you meant to say, you would have said it.
I think you actually meant what you meant the first time around, and that is precisely what the author of the OP was pointing at.
Congratulations.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
If that's you meant to say, you would have said it.
I think you actually meant what you meant the first time around, and that is precisely what the author of the OP was pointing at.
Congratulations.
Click to expand...

I never once mentioned "open borders" - you added that nonsense all on your own. If my attempt to clarify matters a bit upset you then that is not my problem either.
 
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