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Why George Papadopoulos' guilty plea is a much bigger problem for Trump than the Manafort indictment

pillars said:
You don't seem to understand how a negotiated plea arrangement works. Prosecutor tells the suspect that they have evidence to charge them with a more serious offense, but "I can cut you a deal for a lesser charge if you cooperate as a witness in our case against Suspect A for (insert serious charge)."
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One of those things I've had the good fortune never to have become acquainted with -- but I read that the guy might have been wearing a wire in return for the plea deal.

What you're seeing is the charge AFTER the plea has been negotiated, not what it was negotiated down from. And since Papadopoulos was arrested in July, Team Mueller had from July - October to negotiate with Papadopoulos and his attorney, and for Papadopoulos to deliver the goods in exchange for the reduction in charges.
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But, isn't it true that prosecutors make plea deals all the time, without the defendant needing to "give them something?" I mean, something other than a guilty plea to a lesser charge?

By announcing that Papadopoulos has already pled guilty to this lesser charge, Mueller is firing a shot across the bow of the U.S.S. Trumptanic and letting Team Trump know he has the goods on them.
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Well, maybe, but that sounds like jumping the gun to me.

You may not know what this means, but I guarantee that the defense attorneys involved with Team Trump know what it means.
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They probably do -- I guess we'll just have to wait and see what comes of it. But, so far, I've not seen any charges on any of the three that have to do with election meddling.
 
pillars said:
Thankfully, most criminals aren't as smarter, or they'd never get caught.
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Most criminals do not get caught. Most criminals aren't even on the radar. FUBAR.
 
pillars said:
Please review the 5th amendment.
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I am well aware of the 5th and it is not the simplicity you attempt to paint. You should consult with some professionals about the realities of being involved in an investigation.
 
HowardBThiname said:
One of those things I've had the good fortune never to have become acquainted with -- but I read that the guy might have been wearing a wire in return for the plea deal.
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I have read this but not from a reliable media outlet. So, who knows?

But, isn't it true that prosecutors make plea deals all the time, without the defendant needing to "give them something?" I mean, something other than a guilty plea to a lesser charge?
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Sure. In busy court districts, prosecutors make pleas all the time to clear out the court dockets. But, this isn't a local court house...this is a special prosecutor with 17 of the best attorneys in the U.S. looking into possible collaboration with a hostile foreign power. This is akin to a prosecutor in a murder case with 4 suspects trying to flip 1 of the 4 to testify against the others so that 1 goes down for manslaughter, but 3 go down for homicide. This is Mueller's team using Papadopoulos as bait to catch a bigger fish or fishes.

Well, maybe, but that sounds like jumping the gun to me.
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Well, that's an opinion, but perhaps not a totally logical one in this instance. Mueller and his team are some of the most skilled prosecutors in the country. ANYTHING they do -- there is a reason and an end-game, and they have played that game for decades, so they are very skillful at catching and frying big fish.

They probably do -- I guess we'll just have to wait and see what comes of it. But, so fr, I've not seen any charges on any of the three that have to do with election meddling.
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Have you ever played chess? What pieces do you move first?
 
yankintx said:
Remember the name Popadopolous!! Mueller has sent a cannon ball across Trumps desk, slam dunk !! Witch hunt my ass !! Collusion Big Time !!
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The only reason to be interested in this name is Richard Farina's novel, "Been Down So Long, It Looks Like Up to Me."
 
HowardBThiname said:
That's what I said. But, I don't see any evidence of hooking up with Russia to meddle in the election...so far.
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I just explained to you that this was a negotiated plea arrangement where the initial charge was pled down to something less serious....
 
You have to wonder if every single Trump person who talked to George P. over the last few months is now wondering if he had a wire and they are next in line for a visit from the feds?
 
prometeus said:
I am well aware of the 5th and it is not the simplicity you attempt to paint. You should consult with some professionals about the realities of being involved in an investigation.
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Is this something you have a lot of experience with?
 
haymarket said:
You have to wonder if every single Trump person who talked to George P. over the last few months is now wondering if he had a wire and they are next in line for a visit from the feds?
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...and crapping their britches.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Nonsense. Papadopoulos pled guilty to lying to the FBI about when he learned about Hilary's emails, trying to obscure the fact that he learned about them from a Russian professor teaching here in the states, prior to the campaign. The admission was part of a plea deal to minimize fine, and his sentence to probation. It is doesn't indicate he flipped or that his admission is a threat to anyone else. Boo Hoo!
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OK, but if he didn't cooperate and provide meaningful assistance, what incentive does Mueller have to give him a deal?

BTW, that's just one of a long list of things he lied about....
 
prometeus said:
But still can not withhold information or lie even with counsel.
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You have to be cooperative, and protect yourself at the same time. The better you are at that, in the end, the more respect the FBI will have for you.
 
Fletch said:
But for anyone with a brain in their head, the lying stops when it is the FBI asking the questions. Chances are, if they are asking you a question, they already know the right answer.
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True and George decided to lie.
 
HowardBThiname said:
That's what I said. But, I don't see any evidence of hooking up with Russia to meddle in the election...so far.
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You're free to remain ignorant, but it would be a failure to then assert that ignorance as though it is meaningful.

George told President Trump, at this campaign meeting:

453f2565aba5ba9799f285795107b8f6.jpg


This:

c92b09afccd5058147e2b5299b5f51b2.jpg


He knew Russia had thousands of Hillary emails and he knew that Russia wanted to help President Trump win with their release. When he told his campaign supervisor about his ability to coordinate with Russians, his supervisor's response was, "Great work."

What we're seeing here is the tip of an iceberg.
 
Absentglare said:
You're free to remain ignorant, but it would be a failure to then assert that ignorance as though it is meaningful.

George told President Trump, at this campaign meeting:

453f2565aba5ba9799f285795107b8f6.jpg


This:

c92b09afccd5058147e2b5299b5f51b2.jpg


He knew Russia had thousands of Hillary emails and he knew that Russia wanted to help President Trump win with their release. When he told his campaign supervisor about his ability to coordinate with Russians, his supervisor's response was, "Great work."

What we're seeing here is the tip of an iceberg.
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I need to start using pictures more in my posts instead of words. Well done.
 
OldFatGuy said:
The only reason to be interested in this name is Richard Farina's novel, "Been Down So Long, It Looks Like Up to Me."
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Trump supporter? Tough day ?
 
prometeus said:
No not so simple. One can not just dismiss the FBI. One can be questioned without being accused or a suspect and even withholding information can result in a charge of obstruction.
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Nonsense. And the same holds of all LE. Charge me, either as a criminal or a material witness or leave me alone. And that's being nice about it. No law enforcement agent can force anyone to answer questions. If they want to bring you to their offices immediately request an attorney. They cannot force you to respond to anything they say. To borrow from WWII US propaganda, "Loose lips sink ships."

I was an MP and an NYPD gold shield. I do know how it works. And I've been pulled into FBI offices for questioning about cases they wanted to grab after all the work was done. I never cooperated with glory hounds no matter what threats they tender. There are some really good people at the FBI, but like any law enforcement agency, any human endeavor, there are more than a fair share of inept clowns as well.
 
JasperL said:
OK, but if he didn't cooperate and provide meaningful assistance, what incentive does Mueller have to give him a deal?

BTW, that's just one of a long list of things he lied about....
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We don’t even have to ask that question. His plea agreement required cooperation with investigators and the fact that this was kept secret for so long suggests he was being used to gather evidence against others.
 
prometeus said:
The result of not cooperating if not under arest or being accused can result in an obstruction charge.
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Bologna. Every actual charge must be justified to a judge, sooner or later, and there is nothing worse to have on your case than a judge who believes you've wasted court time with a ridiculous charge.

You've been watching too much TV police procedurals.
 
maga.jpg
 
I read somewhere this morning that there were 69 indictments in Watergate.

Isn't that a wonderful thought?
 
OldFatGuy said:
Nonsense.
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Not quite. With all due respect and thanks for your service, at this level it is either cooperation or grand jury. This is not about the run of the mill perp being pulled in from the street or feds attempting to pull rank.
 
Fletch said:
But for anyone with a brain in their head, the lying stops when it is the FBI asking the questions. Chances are, if they are asking you a question, they already know the right answer.
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Well, Fletch, that would be true of normal human behavior; the "holy ****" moment when you know the jig is up, the moment when George's Washington's father caught him with an axe.....

However, when you have a boss that makes the claims does Trump, when you have been inflicted with the delusions of grandure you begin to feel invulnerable. John Dean talked about it extensively in his book after Watergate.

You have to also remember Trump demands absolute loyalty and that only attracts lick spittle and yes men anyway
 
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