Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scandal

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

apdst said:

It hasn't been leaked because the actual context and content would vindicate General Flynn.

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That is a possibility.

But it could also be those with actual access to the transcript fear Trump's retribution, as seen with his former DOJ head.

Which is why it's important Flynn get's bipartisan investigated to put this to rest.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Lutherf said:

One might think that if the Obama administration had solid evidence that the Trump campaign was conspiring with the Russians to damage Clinton or to turn control of America over to the Russians they might have said something. Come to think of it, based on what I saw this campaign season, if the Obama administration had even thought of that idea they'd have "speculated" and said something.

This looks more and more like a coup attempt every day.

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I suppose this could draw a little fire for being "tinfoil hattery" but I'm going to say it anyway.

This reeks to high heaven of a shadow government seeking to delegitimize and ultimately unseat the current President. The narrative about Trump and the Russians was floated immediately by the left as soon as Trump won. It was coordinated and relentless by both the Democrats and the media. That was phase one. Grab the public's attention.

Phase two. Present the evidence...

A phone conversation between (as yet to be sworn in National Security Advisor) Micheal Flynn and the Russian ambassador gets illegally recorded by the NSA and the contents of that conversation get illegally leaked to the media.(and I say ILLEGALLY recorded because there was no warrant authorizing surveillance of Flynn's phone conversations and the law states that once the person has been identified as an American citizen, the recording and surveillance must stop.) No details are revealed except the fact that Flynn had discussed sanctions in some manner. No transcript for context was provided. It could have been completely innocuous but the fact that the administration had already gone on record that Flynn HADN'T discussed sanctions makes it a "scandal".

If I were Trump I'd just release the damn tape and let the chips fall where they may. If the tape IS damning to the administration it's going to get leaked, anyway. If not, then we'll find out who did the recording and who did the leaking.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Lutherf said:

Oh FFS:doh

Do you consider NPR to be a a reliable source of information? Here's something one of their people picked up - Intelligence Official: Transcripts Of Flynn's Calls Don't Show Criminal Wrongdoing : The Two-Way : NPR



Now, if the Democrats want to build a case around this and suggest that Flynn lied to the FBI because he failed to disclose a casual conversation and general discussion of sanctions then go for it. It'll set a precedent that will chill pretty much chill any and all political speech between a private US citizen and a foreigner.

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Lord knows I always feel the need to lie about conversations that are totally aboveboard.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

joG said:

That would certainly be interesting. But I am actually more interested to know about the other activities that are said to be blackmail quality material, should there be any.

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Yeah, this is a tempest in a teapot considering the big picture.

Flynn did a dumb thing (he should have known the Russian's phone would be tapped) and then lied about it to at least Pence.

I don't buy that whole "dem operatives doing evil" schtick put forth by the NR employee. Listening to what the Russians are saying has to be SOP regardless of whose in the Whitehouse. Well, maybe not now, but previously.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

vesper said:

You are absolutely correct.
Trump is holding a presser at the moment and took questions about Flynn. He went onto say Flynn was let go because he was not forth coming to the VP about what was discussed. Yet went on to clarify what he said did not break any laws he was doing his job.

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Oh... well, if Trump said it, there's obviously no reason to look into it any further.:roll:

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Jack Fabulous said:

The narrative about Trump and the Russians was floated immediately by the left as soon as Trump won. It was coordinated and relentless by both the Democrats and the media. That was phase one. Grab the public's attention.

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Yeah... you could stop right there. The "narrative about Trump and the Russians" was "floated" well before the election. Your conspiracy theory falls apart before it even really gets underway.

I do agree with your last statement though... Trump should probably just release the transcript and take his medicine now.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Chomsky said:

You're premise is correct.

But you're assuming content that has not been ascertained.

That's the problem I'm harping on: The need for transparency. Trump has vowed to take over Washington & turn it upside-down. Not all of the country wants this, many fear it, and transparency would go a long way to calming those that are worried.

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Conversations between diplomats, even those who are a month out from becoming a diplomat, need to be afforded a certain level of privacy. Furthermore, casual conversations between diplomats need not be disclosed at all. It serves no purpose to disclose to the press that "we talked about the possibility of talking about it at some point in the future".

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Chomsky said:

That is a possibility.

But it could also be those with actual access to the transcript fear Trump's retribution, as seen with his former DOJ head.

Which is why it's important Flynn get's bipartisan investigated to put this to rest.

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Considering they would be breaking the law, they probably should be afraid.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

MaggieD said:

Chomsky, can you give me a link indicating the FBI has declined any further investigation investigation?

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I can supply a link claiming they will not be bringing charges, which would seem to be a bit presumptive:

WJLA: The FBI is not expected to charge Michael Flynn but that doesn't mean the dust has settled

But this does not speak at all to the House's refusal to investigate.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

RickJames3000 said:

Yeah... you could stop right there. The "narrative about Trump and the Russians" was "floated" well before the election. Your conspiracy theory falls apart before it even really gets underway.

I do agree with your last statement though... Trump should probably just release the transcript and take his medicine now.

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That's not accurate. It was floated that the Russians were behind the WikiLeaks releases of hacked emails during the campaign. It wasn't until Trump won that the connection was made that Trump was working with the Russians the whole time.

This is the point we are at today. It has evolved since November.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

apdst said:

Considering they would be breaking the law, they probably should be afraid.

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Yes, but then that counters your claim that their 'not being leaked' indicates there's nothing untoward in them.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Cardinal said:

Lord knows I always feel the need to lie about conversations that are totally aboveboard.

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Wife - "Cardinal, did you discuss anything with a woman at the grocery store?

Cardinal - "I didn't talk to anyone. I just picked up eggs and milk then came right home"

Wife - "My friend, Marie, was in line behind you. She says that when the cashier asked if you found everything you said 'I think I got it all but I'll find out when I get home'". You DID talk to someone and now you have lied to me. I want half!!!!

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Lutherf said:

Conversations between diplomats, even those who are a month out from becoming a diplomat, need to be afforded a certain level of privacy. Furthermore, casual conversations between diplomats need not be disclosed at all. It serves no purpose to disclose to the press that "we talked about the possibility of talking about it at some point in the future".

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Luther, the guy was kicked out of office for hiding the phone call and it's contents (to an often belligerent foreign power), and he lost his security clearance.

You act like this is me wishing you happy birthday.

This needs an investigation, buddy.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Jack Fabulous said:

That's not accurate. It was floated that the Russians were behind the WikiLeaks releases of hacked emails during the campaign. It wasn't until Trump won that the connection was made that Trump was working with the Russians the whole time.

This is the point we are at today. It has evolved since November.

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It sure seemed like Clinton was advancing "the narrative about Trump and the Russians" when she called Trump "Putin's puppet" at the debate on October 19th.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Chomsky said:

I can supply a link claiming they will not be bringing charges, which would seem to be a bit presumptive:

WJLA: The FBI is not expected to charge Michael Flynn but that doesn't mean the dust has settled

But this does not speak at all to the House's refusal to investigate.

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Thought I'd grab the pertinent part for others.

WASHINGTON (CIRCA) - The Federal Bureau of Investigation said it doesn't intend to pursue charges against Michael Flynn for discussing sanctions with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak on a phone call in December 2016, according to CNN

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See, I trust no one. I see this is "according to CNN." It is not a quote from the FBI directly. Further, the eavesdropped conversations, I would think, speak for themselves, right? If there's nothing on the recordings that crossed the line, then game over as far as the phone calls are concerned. However, this does not mean, even if we assume CNN accurately reported this, that there isn't an ongoing investigation of Flynn on other fronts.

Personally, I doubt the story. It would surprise me that a reputable FBI spokesperson would say that. But that's just me. In today's world.

Re The HR not investigating, it appears the powers that be believe the FBI did its investigation, so...that's it. The Senate, however, is very unhappy.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

bubbabgone said:

Yeah but it doesn't "appear" to be happening.

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Finding leaks may not be public

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

RickJames3000 said:

It sure seemed like Clinton was advancing "the narrative about Trump and the Russians" when she called Trump "Putin's puppet" at the debate on October 19th.

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At the point in time when she said that, it was in the context of Putin being behind the Podesta hacks and Trump being willing to make deals with anyone. The "full court press" that Trump was working with Putin to "hack the election" didn't come until after he had won. I'm not saying there weren't mutterings here and there from alternative media sources, I'm just saying that it wasn't an all out effort by MSM and the Democrats until the election was over.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

CanadaJohn said:

I'm still surprised, perhaps naively, by the following: Isn't it illegal for a government agency to wiretap or eavesdrop on the conversations of an American citizen without a warrant? And even if an American citizen happens to be caught up in a wiretap of an alien, the American citizen's part in the conversation is supposed to be redacted and his/her identity hidden. Why was this made public and who authorized the publication? If it wasn't authorized, the FBI has serious internal problems and they are far more serious than anything that has been discussed about Flynn's conversations with the Russian envoy.

Additionally, seems the FBI is more concerned with destroying elements of the Trump administration, perhaps payback for the Hillary disclosures, than they are in retaining state secrets as classified.

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So I'll admit I haven't followed this super closely but:

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/15...-defenders-suddenly-care-about-wiretap-abuse/

The minimization procedures call for the redaction of names of “U.S. persons” when they are caught up in international surveillance. But they allow the identity of U.S. persons to be unmasked whenever it is necessary to understand the communication — which is almost certainly the case with Flynn’s call.

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Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Chomsky said:

Luther, the guy was kicked out of office for hiding the phone call and it's contents (to an often belligerent foreign power), and he lost his security clearance.

You act like this is me wishing you happy birthday.

This needs an investigation, buddy.

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CORRECTION: This story has been updated to reflect that Flynn is retaining his security clearance.

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Flynn's access to classified information suspended 'pending review' - CNNPolitics.com

I have yet to see a definitive reason for Flynn's resignation/termination. The administration cited "an eroding confidence level" or something like that.

My guess, and it's nothing but a guess at this point, is that some folks in the intel community suggested that unless Flynn went away there would be more "leaks".

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

MaggieD said:

Thought I'd grab the pertinent part for others.



See, I trust no one. I see this is "according to CNN." It is not a quote from the FBI directly. Further, the eavesdropped conversations, I would think, speak for themselves, right? If there's nothing on the recordings that crossed the line, then game over as far as the phone calls are concerned. However, this does not mean, even if we assume CNN accurately reported this, that there isn't an ongoing investigation of Flynn on other fronts.

Personally, I doubt the story. It would surprise me that a reputable FBI spokesperson would say that. But that's just me. In today's world.

Re The HR not investigating, it appears the powers that be believe the FBI did its investigation, so...that's it. The Senate, however, is very unhappy.

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The above is one take on this, and some may call it reasonable. I can see the logic.

But after watching the partisanship of recent times, including Comey's influence on the election, some of us can't help but believe partisanship is not taking place here as well.

It would seem you are not one. However, I'm not quite so sanguine or trusting of the political parties and their members.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Chomsky said:

The above is one take on this, and some may call it reasonable. I can see the logic.

But after watching the partisanship of recent times, including Comey's influence on the election, some of us can't help but believe partisanship is not taking place here as well.

It would seem you are not one. However, I'm not quite so sanguine or trusting of the political parties and their members.

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I can understand where you're coming from. I've enjoyed our back and forth.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

Cardinal said:

Well on one hand I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been leaked already. On the other hand I guess that could probably reveal the source of the leak a lot more specifically.

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But are you? why would it not have been leaked.....


Rule 9:

“The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

apdst said:

His resignation was propted because he wasn't honest about the conversation, but that doesn't mean he broke any laws.

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Why wasn't he honest?

Why was Pence hung out to dry and ****ed over by President Trump-Bannon allowing Pence to go on several news interviews saying that Flynn didn't lie?

If he didn't break any laws then classified information was not part of the phone calls. Flynn was not part of the government in any way at the time the phone call(s) took place and thus had no authority to discuss anything classified. Either he did or he did not.

1. If Flynn discussed sanctions or classified information or collaborated with Russia to defeat Hillary then there is a problem.

2. If Flynn discussed nothing more than than cordial "get to know you" then he did not violate any laws.

3. If Flynn did not violate any laws what was leaked? There is no leak if no laws were violated.

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

MaggieD said:

I can understand where you're coming from. I've enjoyed our back and forth.

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Same here, Maggie.

Actually - as unhappy as some of us are with Trump, and as happy as others are with him, I'm hoping we can ratchet the emotions down a bit. It's too easy to be subconsciously all geared-up for a fight with the more antagonistic forum members, only to inadvertently carry-it-over to unfairly crap on those of more moderate & civil demeanor.

I guess the old axiom "try to take the high road" applies more than ever.

Thanks for your comment, it means a lot to me. :cheers:

Re: Make the Flynn Tape Public -Team Trump turns an empty narrative into a major scan

vesper said:

You are absolutely correct.
Trump is holding a presser at the moment and took questions about Flynn. He went onto say Flynn was let go because he was not forth coming to the VP about what was discussed. Yet went on to clarify what he said did not break any laws he was doing his job.

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Then how was there a leak? No foul, no leak. If Flynn had a conversation with the Russian ambassador about getting a recipe for making pirogues would there have been a "leak"? If the conversation between the two was innocuous then what was leaked?