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National ID card still a bad idea

Cold Highway

Cold Highway

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While health care has been the main focus of most people let us not forget about other statist programs that are once again rearing its ugly head.

Officials in other states eager to take advantage of the massive information database that would be created by this de facto national identification card system, claimed that states failing to come on board were harming the fight against terrorism. Proponents of the REAL ID rarely fail to remind their audiences that several of the 911 hijackers possessed state-issued drivers licenses procured through false information (as if having Uncle Sam enforce a single, national standard for drivers’ licenses would magically prevent such problems from ever recurring).
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National ID card still a bad idea | The Barr Code
 
chevydriver1123 said:
While health care has been the main focus of most people let us not forget about other statist programs that are once again rearing its ugly head.



National ID card still a bad idea | The Barr Code
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It may be too late already. I just renewed my driver's license, and guess what? The new one has a bar code on it.

A good friend of mine is now living in Lake Chapala, in Mexico, which has 40,000 Americans in it, making it the largest American expat community in the world. People are not subjected to government intrusion and other crap there. The idea of moving there is beginning to look better every day. My wife and I are talking about retiring there instead of staying here. But, who knows, maybe in 6 years, when I retire, it will be just as bad there as it is here, so my plans are not set in stone yet. My biggest wish? To live in a place where the government tells me that my life is my own damn business, and none of theirs.
 
danarhea said:
It may be too late already. I just renewed my driver's license, and guess what? The new one has a bar code on it.

A good friend of mine is now living in Lake Chapala, in Mexico, which has 40,000 Americans in it, making it the largest American expat community in the world. People are not subjected to government intrusion and other crap there. The idea of moving there is beginning to look better every day. My wife and I are talking about retiring there instead of staying here. But, who knows, maybe in 6 years, when I retire, it will be just as bad there as it is here, so my plans are not set in stone yet. My biggest wish? To live in a place where the government tells me that my life is my own damn business, and none of theirs.
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I've contemplated moving to the Phillipenes.
 
danarhea said:
It may be too late already. I just renewed my driver's license, and guess what? The new one has a bar code on it.

A good friend of mine is now living in Lake Chapala, in Mexico, which has 40,000 Americans in it, making it the largest American expat community in the world. People are not subjected to government intrusion and other crap there. The idea of moving there is beginning to look better every day. My wife and I are talking about retiring there instead of staying here. But, who knows, maybe in 6 years, when I retire, it will be just as bad there as it is here, so my plans are not set in stone yet. My biggest wish? To live in a place where the government tells me that my life is my own damn business, and none of theirs.
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Mine expires in 2013 maybe we will get our wish in 2012. Ive also considered getting a passport but now it doesnt seem like a good idea. BTW I thought you were already retired.


MrVicchio said:
I've contemplated moving to the Phillipenes.
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I thought Australia would be closest to a free society.
 
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chevydriver1123 said:
Mine expires in 2013 maybe we will get our wish in 2012. Ive also considered getting a passport but now it doesnt seem like a good idea. BTW I thought you were already retired.




I thought Australia would be closest to a free society.
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I have family in the PI :)
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Mine expires in 2013 maybe we will get our wish in 2012. Ive also considered getting a passport but now it doesnt seem like a good idea. BTW I thought you were already retired.




I thought Australia would be closest to a free society.
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Australia censors the internet. They don't even allow 4chan.
 
In Canada, provinces have started creating ID for health care and driver's licenses that have RFID in them. Not only can these be theoretically read by anyone who has a reader, they are trackable by satellite.

I really don't understand why this technology is necessary, other than to intrude further into people's lives. Those who want to circumvent the system always find a way. "Security" is such a lame old excuse for "taking away my freedom bit by bit".

My long term plan is to leave North America permanently though, so I'm not too worried about the distant future.
 
This is a good idea for valid security and government service reasons and will help prevent all manner of fraud. I do not understand the level of paranoia that this suggestion evokes in people.
 
Nobody wants the government tracking them ....but it never amaze me how these people will foam at the mouth at this notion ...and dutifully hand over their phone numbers at Home Depot for example to buy a nail.

Always the case with the right ...they can always rationalize when the corporations screw them in the very same way and worse ...than the government would.

Do you actually know what that credit card company is doing with your personal information?

Do you notice that even with all the technology in the world its getting harder and harder to get simple information from more and more companies ...because to get that information requires much more personal information from you?

Wanna know what our products costs ...fill out this form first!

Soon this practice will become standard as more and more companies start to use this tactic.

Finally .... I heard nothing but praises from bush when he was busy listening in on pillow talk from many of our GI's and US citizens.
 
therealtruth said:
Nobody wants the government tracking them ....but it never amaze me how these people will foam at the mouth at this notion ...and dutifully hand over their phone numbers at Home Depot for example to buy a nail.

Always the case with the right ...they can always rationalize when the corporations screw them in the very same way and worse ...than the government would.

Do you actually know what that credit card company is doing with your personal information?

Do you notice that even with all the technology in the world its getting harder and harder to get simple information from more and more companies ...because to get that information requires much more personal information from you?

Wanna know what our products costs ...fill out this form first!

Soon this practice will become standard as more and more companies start to use this tactic.
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Your examples fail because with Home Depot or any other business. I can choose not to give it and take my business elsewhere. With the government its give it us or face the penalty.

Finally .... I heard nothing but praises from bush when he was busy listening in on pillow talk from many of our GI's and US citizens.
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Maybe so but I sure as hell wasnt one of them.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
This is a good idea for valid security and government service reasons and will help prevent all manner of fraud. I do not understand the level of paranoia that this suggestion evokes in people.
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I don't think the government is going to do evil things with this (the right wing has lately shown me how irrational all the paranoia is), but I'm still against this. The data the card will contain will also be in a national database, and it will be extensive. From wiki

Link

Each card's record which must be shared with the federal must include the person's full legal name and any other common law name or previous name, signature, date of birth, place of birth, parent's name and social security and parent's id number or drive's license number, gender, unique driver's license or identification card number, passport number, social security number, voter registration with optional party membership, military record, marital status and spouse's name, race, employment status, mental disability and criminal record if any. It also includes a photograph of the person's face, and the person's height, weight, eye and hair color, dental records and fingerprints, the address of principal residence and all previous residence addresses from the previous 10 years and a list of all the countries and US states visited in the previous ten years. It is required to have physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes. In North Carolina, these new security features include a hologram of a map of the entire North American continent.[16]
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Do you have any faith in the government's ability to keep such a massive amount of information secure? Centralizing it just asking for security problems. How many millions of Americans have had their data leak out by way of the VA alone? I think there was one incident where more than 20 million people's information was stolen. If the information is accessible enough to keep us secure in any meaningful way, it's won't be under enough protections.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
This is a good idea for valid security and government service reasons and will help prevent all manner of fraud. I do not understand the level of paranoia that this suggestion evokes in people.
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After revelations that our Government has been spying like hell on its own citizens, under Clinton, Bush, and now Obama, this doesn't really bother you?
 
Zyphlin said:
Thus raising the intelligence level of all online users in Australia.
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hahah, 4chan is really dumb. But I don't think any country should censor the internet.

And a national ID should be fiercely opposed.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
This is a good idea for valid security and government service reasons and will help prevent all manner of fraud. I do not understand the level of paranoia that this suggestion evokes in people.
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[cheesy German accent] Show us your papers [/accent]
 
danarhea said:
After revelations that our Government has been spying like hell on its own citizens, under Clinton, Bush, and now Obama, this doesn't really bother you?
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It really doesn't. Nor does the fact that the government has been spying on its own citizens-- after all, you seem to have forgotten the elder Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, and Roosevelt-- bother me, as this is something I consider normal and necessary activity on the part of the government. The government needs to track dissident activity that could potentially lead to espionage or terrorist attacks.

And nothing I have seen in any Real ID proposal would empower the government to spy on the citizens more effectively, nor allow them to engage in any other behavior I would consider objectionable. It is a real and tangible benefit to national security with no corresponding infringement of liberty-- the only downside I see is the cost, and that will eventually break even through elimination of redundant and non-standardized systems.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
It really doesn't. Nor does the fact that the government has been spying on its own citizens-- after all, you seem to have forgotten the elder Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, and Roosevelt-- bother me, as this is something I consider normal and necessary activity on the part of the government. The government needs to track dissident activity that could potentially lead to espionage or terrorist attacks.

And nothing I have seen in any Real ID proposal would empower the government to spy on the citizens more effectively, nor allow them to engage in any other behavior I would consider objectionable. It is a real and tangible benefit to national security with no corresponding infringement of liberty-- the only downside I see is the cost, and that will eventually break even through elimination of redundant and non-standardized systems.
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I wonder how many of those paranoid about the government tracking them with this ID card have cell phones. You know, the ones where the government can both track you and listen to your conversations.
 
danarhea said:
After revelations that our Government has been spying like hell on its own citizens, under Clinton, Bush, and now Obama, this doesn't really bother you?
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What exactly is your REAL concern?

"my freedoms"
"spying"

all sounds good great grand and wonderful.

But what are you losing exactly?

Are you no longer free to do as you will?
 
sam_w said:
I wonder how many of those paranoid about the government tracking them with this ID card have cell phones. You know, the ones where the government can both track you and listen to your conversations.
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Government, hell. Until they started encrypting the things, you could pick them up on amateur radio equipment. I've pretty much been assuming that I've been under at least nominal surveillance since at least the mid-Nineties. Only thing that's been any cause for concern on my part is that I may have had a role in costing my sister a job with the FBI; seems they asked several questions about me when they interviewed her for a security clearance.
 
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