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If Sanders is the nominee, will you vote?

Robertinfremont said:
Let's quit the two step. I am extremely familiar with socialism. Notice if I say Democrat, maybe to you it means just one small thing. But to me, it has a wide range of beliefs. Socialism is not MERELY what you allege it is.

I get a kick out of people who do not understand this subject saying to me "You do not understand" Unions are not needed to have socialism. And with them, it itself is not socialism as Governments understand it.
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I don't know what Democrat means to you, to me it's a political party.

A union is an organization of workers. You cannot have working class ownership of the means of production without some kind of organization of workers.
 
j brown's body said:
That's the difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives even got behind Hitler.
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That is an absolute lie. It was the American leftwing that fell in love with Hitler - Time Magazine Man Of The Year.

Besides, Bernie Sanders would assure you that really what is important about Hitler was he had some good social programs - free childcare, money for the elderly, unemployment insurance, free drug addiction treatment, and many more. To Sander's way of thinking, Hitler was a great guy. In fact, nearly every "FREE" program Sanders promises are programs Hitler came up with.
 
Irredentist said:
I don't know what Democrat means to you, to me it's a political party.

A union is an organization of workers. You cannot have working class ownership of the means of production without some kind of organization of workers.
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Bernie Sanders is to the Democratic Party what a scab is to a union.

Sander's already is vowing to destroy the Democratic Party on behalf of Trump if he doesn't get the nomination. Sanders openly stated he can't stand liberals and is the anti-Democrat.
 
Robertinfremont said:
FDR was no conservsative but he backed Hitler. His economy and Hitlers were darned near mirror images.
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It was the republiklan that backed Hitler in the 1930s. This is an absolutely abysmal attempt at historical revision. Only 38% of isolationist Repubs unequivocally supported Lend Lease compared to 69% of Democrats.

There’s plenty more here if you want it. If repubs had controlled government, Great Britain would have been wiped out. Today’s GOPutiNazis would have liked that.
 
GreatNews2night said:
I've already early-voted for Sanders but I'm not a Sanders fan. I did it because I think he delivers the best shot at beating Trump.

Trump is such a disaster and he is so dangerous to America, posing an existential threat to our democratic institutions, that this is no-brainer. Never the lesser of two evils has been clearer.

So, original poster, I invite you to pinch your nose this time and vote for whoever is the Dem nominee, even if it is Sanders.

At worst, if he wins Sanders will be an ineffective president for 4 years, obstructed by Congress, then will be too old and frail for a second term. But at least, he will have kicked the Trump Crime Family out of the Oval Office.
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My guess is you are one of those people that want an asteroid to destroy all life on earth rather than Trump being re-elected.
 
Michael Cole said:
If Sanders Is The Nominee, Will You Vote?

This question doesn't apply to those solidly in the Trump or Sanders camp. Most of you will be voting. I'm asking those, like me, who see Sanders' flaws as potentially prohibitive of casting a vote in his name.

I've never been good at holding my nose and voting. I've never done it. I've never had to. We have "none of the above" here, and I've selected it three times: 2000, 2004 and 2016.

Those choices were easy to make. This year, I'd vote for an indicted ham sandwich over Trump. I just don't know if I can vote for Bernie. If I allow myself to vote for someone I find seriously flawed, for the sole purpose of defeating the opponent, then I become part of the problem. I don't believe I can do that.

My question revolves around turnout. If Sanders isn't the nominee, we can expect some Bernie supporters won't be voting. If Sanders is the nominee, how will that effect turnout among moderates who aren't voting for Trump? Will they hold their noses or stay home?
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I see yellow flags if its Sanders, most of the red ones deal with electability. If he is the nominee I will absolutely vote for him he is a light year above Trump, but so are my dog's messes on the shag carpet.

The yellow flags involve whether he is temperamentally well suited to be President, whether he will go out of his way to put moderates in his west wing and cabinet, and whether he will listen to them. I am still a little concerned he will be too reluctant to use military force even when it is needed.
 
joko104 said:
Bernie Sanders is to the Democratic Party what a scab is to a union.

Sander's already is vowing to destroy the Democratic Party on behalf of Trump if he doesn't get the nomination. Sanders openly stated he can't stand liberals and is the anti-Democrat.
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Sanders is just a crazy old man. He talks a big game, believes what he's saying, means well, but he's harmless. He doesn't really have the ability to follow through on any of his big promises. Any more than most politicians.
 
Linc said:
It was the republiklan that backed Hitler in the 1930s. This is an absolutely abysmal attempt at historical revision. Only 38% of isolationist Repubs unequivocally supported Lend Lease compared to 69% of Democrats.

There’s plenty more here if you want it. If repubs had controlled government, Great Britain would have been wiped out. Today’s GOPutiNazis would have liked that.
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That is a lie. The leftwing feverish supported Hitler.

You are correct that the Democratic Party is the party of war and death. There is NO war the Democratic Party has not wanted and demanded. Over 90% of American deaths have been under Democratic leadership. More American troops have literally been killed by Democrats than any foreign adversary.
 
Irredentist said:
I don't know what Democrat means to you, to me it's a political party.

A union is an organization of workers. You cannot have working class ownership of the means of production without some kind of organization of workers.
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A union is akin to a dues paying club.

Here in my area we have a employee owned company. I and my son drive a bit further to shop for food there. The big advantage for us is prices at Winco are a bit less than at Fred Meyer store.

Service at the corporation Meyers store vs the Winco is the same. I notice that at Winco, due to my perception of lower prices, I end up spending more than I do at the other store.
 
Irredentist said:
Sanders is just a crazy old man. He talks a big game, believes what he's saying, means well, but he's harmless. He doesn't really have the ability to follow through on any of his big promises. Any more than most politicians.
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No, he's far worse. He's a fraud and a fake. A white-flight open white racial segregationist. As recently as 2015, he said blacks and whites should not be in the same schools together - like he moved out of NYC to have in kid in a white-only school, claiming that if blacks and whites are together it will cause racial tension.

On colleges? His wife became the head of a college, used fake pledged to gain a loan against the college - and then gave all that money to her kid for a woodworking school. That theft bankrupted the college that closed, hitting every student there. NO CANDID is more the enemy of universities than Bernie Sanders.
 
joko104 said:
That is a lie. The leftwing feverish supported Hitler.

You are correct that the Democratic Party is the party of war and death. There is NO war the Democratic Party has not wanted and demanded. Over 90% of American deaths have been under Democratic leadership. More American troops have literally been killed by Democrats than any foreign adversary.
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House Democrats voted 238-25 for Lend Lease to save Great Britain. House Nazis voted 24-135 against Great Britain.

Senate Democrats voted 49-13 to save Great Britain. Senate GOP Nazi-lovers voted 10-17 for the Stalin/Hitler pact.

Now who’s lying?!
 
Michael Cole said:
If Sanders Is The Nominee, Will You Vote?

This question doesn't apply to those solidly in the Trump or Sanders camp. Most of you will be voting. I'm asking those, like me, who see Sanders' flaws as potentially prohibitive of casting a vote in his name.

I've never been good at holding my nose and voting. I've never done it. I've never had to. We have "none of the above" here, and I've selected it three times: 2000, 2004 and 2016.

Those choices were easy to make. This year, I'd vote for an indicted ham sandwich over Trump. I just don't know if I can vote for Bernie. If I allow myself to vote for someone I find seriously flawed, for the sole purpose of defeating the opponent, then I become part of the problem. I don't believe I can do that.

My question revolves around turnout. If Sanders isn't the nominee, we can expect some Bernie supporters won't be voting. If Sanders is the nominee, how will that effect turnout among moderates who aren't voting for Trump? Will they hold their noses or stay home?
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Good question. For years I did just that; then realized how badly I was screwing myself over and also...learning that if you choose not to vote, you really don't have a right to complain about what happens afterwards.

Might I suggest that you accept a Trump victory by not voting for the DNC candidate and do a legitimate write-in vote for president (a real, viable person, not Mickey Mouse) and then focus on any local election candidates as they will certainly have a more immediate impact on you and/or and referendums or local spending bills or laws. It's rare that a ballot will only have the presidential election on it and nothing else. And if it does, and you vote for a real person that you legitimately could stomach...at least you have the right to b!tch afterwards.

Ultimately, it will depend on if you want Trump to win if there no candidate for you. By not voting, you will have helped Trump to win and not have made any impact on local issues and/or candidates.
 
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Robertinfremont said:
FDR = Hitler in his form of government. We do not favor Adolph for a myriad of reasons. Adolf essentially created a one party government. Alas, so did FDR. FDR and Adolph were huge spenders on the society. There was no more voting under Hitler. Frankly study how many times FDR won and ask, was that really voting?

There is the myth that we republicans favor the KKK. But that is simply hog wash. I do not care who they vote for. They voted for far more than a century for democrats. Maybe they smelled the stench and now vote for us. It does not matter.
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Yes, a one party government just like Trump is looking to do. The Party of Trump! How long before you think he'll come out with his own flag? I'm guessing in the first six months after he's reelected.

No doubt you'll be among the first to wear the armband. :)

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joko104 said:
That is a lie. The leftwing feverish supported Hitler.

You are correct that the Democratic Party is the party of war and death. There is NO war the Democratic Party has not wanted and demanded. Over 90% of American deaths have been under Democratic leadership. More American troops have literally been killed by Democrats than any foreign adversary.
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Blows me away what those Democrats who never got near what Hitler did making up stories about the demon.

I also include Abe Lincoln as a major war monger. So I go at the two parties. But all in all, we have had most deaths due to Abe but FDR is a rival for numbers killed.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Yes, a one party government just like Trump is looking to do. The Party of Trump! How long before you think he'll come out with his own flag? I'm guessing in the first six months after he's reelected.

No doubt you'll be among the first to wear the armband. :)

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That is just **** kicking mean. Stop acting like you are a loyal Democrat.
 
Michael Cole said:
If Sanders Is The Nominee, Will You Vote?

This question doesn't apply to those solidly in the Trump or Sanders camp. Most of you will be voting. I'm asking those, like me, who see Sanders' flaws as potentially prohibitive of casting a vote in his name.

I've never been good at holding my nose and voting. I've never done it. I've never had to. We have "none of the above" here, and I've selected it three times: 2000, 2004 and 2016.

Those choices were easy to make. This year, I'd vote for an indicted ham sandwich over Trump. I just don't know if I can vote for Bernie. If I allow myself to vote for someone I find seriously flawed, for the sole purpose of defeating the opponent, then I become part of the problem. I don't believe I can do that.

My question revolves around turnout. If Sanders isn't the nominee, we can expect some Bernie supporters won't be voting. If Sanders is the nominee, how will that effect turnout among moderates who aren't voting for Trump? Will they hold their noses or stay home?
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I wasn't planning on voting. However, if Sanders was the nominee AND if I thought my vote made a damn bit of difference (which it wouldn't) I'd vote...for Trump.
 
Linc said:
It was the republiklan that backed Hitler in the 1930s. This is an absolutely abysmal attempt at historical revision. Only 38% of isolationist Repubs unequivocally supported Lend Lease compared to 69% of Democrats.

There’s plenty more here if you want it. If repubs had controlled government, Great Britain would have been wiped out. Today’s GOPutiNazis would have liked that.
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Lend Lease helped the Communists. Communists under Stalin never got off the ground as to having even a remotely decent economy. Contrast that to his ideological brother Hitler and he had an economy that rose so fast that could by why FDR loved it. Lend lease proves that Communists were lousy at economics and had to have things given to them on a silver platter to survive.
 
Michael Cole said:
If Sanders Is The Nominee, Will You Vote?

This question doesn't apply to those solidly in the Trump or Sanders camp. Most of you will be voting. I'm asking those, like me, who see Sanders' flaws as potentially prohibitive of casting a vote in his name.

I've never been good at holding my nose and voting. I've never done it. I've never had to. We have "none of the above" here, and I've selected it three times: 2000, 2004 and 2016.

Those choices were easy to make. This year, I'd vote for an indicted ham sandwich over Trump. I just don't know if I can vote for Bernie. If I allow myself to vote for someone I find seriously flawed, for the sole purpose of defeating the opponent, then I become part of the problem. I don't believe I can do that.

My question revolves around turnout. If Sanders isn't the nominee, we can expect some Bernie supporters won't be voting. If Sanders is the nominee, how will that effect turnout among moderates who aren't voting for Trump? Will they hold their noses or stay home?
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I haven’t missed a vote since I was 18 in 1972. As a college sophomore, my draft # was 38, so I was 1H (one holding), and it stayed that way for 7 years. Nixon did away with the 2S college deferment in 1972, but had no intention of drafting college students in an election year.

That dirty ********er Nixon prolonged that war by four MORE years with his treason during the 1968 election sabotaging the Paris Peace talks. That cost the USA 22,000 more dead soldiers and hundreds of thousands more scarred for life soldiers. All of my older friends who went to Vietnam are Dead now.

Of course I’ll vote against the only candidate that can defeat the Clear and Present Danger pr*sident we’ve had for the last 3+ years. However, it would be nice if Slanders’s Psycho Supporters could figure out how to defend Sanders against his very real problems without pissing off REAL Democrats.
 
Robertinfremont said:
A union is akin to a dues paying club.

Here in my area we have a employee owned company. I and my son drive a bit further to shop for food there. The big advantage for us is prices at Winco are a bit less than at Fred Meyer store.

Service at the corporation Meyers store vs the Winco is the same. I notice that at Winco, due to my perception of lower prices, I end up spending more than I do at the other store.
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That's great for WinCo employees, but it doesn't make Hitler a socialist. Hitler privatized state industries. And he certainly didn't give ownership to the working class.
 
Linc said:
House Democrats voted 238-25 for Lend Lease to save Great Britain. House Nazis voted 24-135 against Great Britain.

Senate Democrats voted 49-13 to save Great Britain. Senate GOP Nazi-lovers voted 10-17 for the Stalin/Hitler pact.

Now who’s lying?!
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Lend Lease was an outright gift program. Had it either been lend or lease, I suspect it would have attracted more Republicans. Bear in mind, this country was far worse off then than any of you have seen it. Any past recessions were nothing compared to the troubled USA in the 1930s.

Bear in mind your Democrats under discussion had for a long time suppressed minorities and even at the time of FDR death, he refused to allow blacks to have any front line infantry positions believing them to be inferior.
 
Irredentist said:
That's great for WinCo employees, but it doesn't make Hitler a socialist. Hitler privatized state industries. And he certainly didn't give ownership to the working class.
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You have the view of socialism that Democrats promote. What you need to do is actually experience it. Winco is not socialist. But merely a company owned by the employees. Hitler was a socialist for thousands of reasons. Are you defending socialism or Hitler?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Only if you stop acting like an armband-wearing member of the Party of Trump. :)

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What, arm myself to wage war on Trump? That man has performed some near miracles. I would not support your candidate ever. Again, such mean spirited comments to me. If you are Rising sun, this is far out of character for you.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Lend Lease helped the Communists. Communists under Stalin never got off the ground as to having even a remotely decent economy. Contrast that to his ideological brother Hitler and he had an economy that rose so fast that could by why FDR loved it. Lend lease proves that Communists were lousy at economics and had to have things given to them on a silver platter to survive.
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Horse ****. Soviet state investment through the five year plans took Russia from an agrarian society to an industrialized economy. During the great depression, the USSR experienced consistent economic growth.
 
Robertinfremont said:
You have the view of socialism that Democrats promote. What you need to do is actually experience it. Winco is not socialist. But merely a company owned by the employees. Hitler was a socialist for thousands of reasons. Are you defending socialism or Hitler?
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Neither, I am merely correcting your inaccurate characterization of both. Hitler was not a socialist. He was, however, a populist.
 
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