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Thread: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

  1. #391
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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by ElChupacabra View Post
    This premise is not supported by fact. You would have to explain how incentive has been destroyed across comparable places for this to be true.
    No I posted official results on the most liberal state in the country, an embarrassment

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No I posted official results on the most liberal state in the country, an embarrassment

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    Which is just one example out of other places where social programs have been more successful. GOP tax policy credibility holds no validity because of the failures in Kansas and now Alaska, right?

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Higher paid labor create more in capital demand and pay more in capital taxes.

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by ElChupacabra View Post
    Which is just one example out of other places where social programs have been more successful. GOP tax policy credibility holds no validity because of the failures in Kansas and now Alaska, right?

    As I have stated and you ignored give me another state in the country that hasn't had a Republican legislature in approximately 60 years? Stop making excuses for failure and accept responsibility that the liberal ideology is a failure.

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As I have stated and you ignored give me another state in the country that hasn't had a Republican legislature in approximately 60 years? Stop making excuses for failure and accept responsibility that the liberal ideology is a failure.
    No excuses are necessary. You present a flawed premise which assumes the failure of one state means an ideology has failed considering there's implementation and management which also affect outcomes. You only like to focus on the failures which fit your narrative and ignore the ones which don't suit yours. The failure of GOP management in red states of healthcare, quality of education, crime management, and recent failures at tax policy (both Kansas and Alaska) should, by your standards, make conservatism an equal failure.
    Last edited by ElChupacabra; 03-04-20 at 03:45 PM.

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by ElChupacabra View Post
    No excuses are necessary. You present a flawed premise which assumes the failure of one state means an ideology has failed considering there's implementation and management which also affect outcomes. You only like to focus on the failures which fit your narrative and ignore the ones which don't suit yours. The failure of GOP management in red states of healthcare, quality of education, crime management, and recent failures at tax policy (both Kansas and Alaska) should, by your standards, make conservatism an equal failure.
    It is only flawed to people who will never accept responsibility for the failure of an ideology. If Kansas is doing so poorly the people will react, doubt you have any knowledge of what is going on in Kansas but willingly buy media reports and left wing attacks. There is no comparison between Kansas/Alaska/California and most people get it. How can the 5th largest GDP in the world not benefit the people of the state that the left promises to help?

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It is only flawed to people who will never accept responsibility for the failure of an ideology.
    Not at all, and for the reasons I stated. Ideologies fail for a variety of reasons; the prime ones being implementation and management. You can have a feasible idea fail miserably if you fail at both.


    If Kansas is doing so poorly the people will react, doubt you have any knowledge of what is going on in Kansas but willingly buy media reports and left wing attacks.
    They did. They got rid of Brownback who instituted the policy and Alaska is doing the same through their recall effort. There's no need for left wing attacks since this was a pretty clear situation of a tax policy which was ineffectual at achieving the promises made by the then governor.


    There is no comparison between Kansas/Alaska/California and most people get it. How can the 5th largest GDP in the world not benefit the people of the state that the left promises to help?
    At the governance and management level, you can surely compare what different states are doing. I only mentioned those states to point out the absurdity of your premise that failure of state policy management equals failure of an ideology. Now, if you stated that California has grossly mismanaged certain policies, then sure. But you're branding the failure of an ideology purely on the failure of one state to handle their business.

    So why do red states fail at the issues I mentioned, and why don't you critique those failures?

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by ElChupacabra View Post
    Not at all, and for the reasons I stated. Ideologies fail for a variety of reasons; the prime ones being implementation and management. You can have a feasible idea fail miserably if you fail at both.




    They did. They got rid of Brownback who instituted the policy and Alaska is doing the same through their recall effort. There's no need for left wing attacks since this was a pretty clear situation of a tax policy which was ineffectual at achieving the promises made by the then governor.




    At the governance and management level, you can surely compare what different states are doing. I only mentioned those states to point out the absurdity of your premise that failure of state policy management equals failure of an ideology. Now, if you stated that California has grossly mismanaged certain policies, then sure. But you're branding the failure of an ideology purely on the failure of one state to handle their business.

    So why do red states fail at the issues I mentioned, and why don't you critique those failures?
    Liberals give lip service and promote spending in the name of compassion but the only real compassion goes to the liberal leadership elite that implement these programs and when you implement social programs without strings and limitations you create California's all over the country. Liberalism meant well but it is a failed ideology that ignores human behavior and incentive

    You assume that red states fail and you base that on some kind of reports that don't provide any context, TX may lead the nation in uninsured but context tells a different story as TX has programs for the uninsured and I am involved in one that services a lot of different people. Be careful in pointing to specific WHO reports none of which measure individual countries the same way. It is quite telling that people are flocking to TX to apparently become uninsured, receive low wages, and fight pollution according to every report. Must be a lot of dumbass people and I only thought they were liberal

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    Re: As San Fran Streets Fill with Human Waste, Grocery Store Aisle Turns Into Toilet

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Liberals give lip service and promote spending in the name of compassion but the only real compassion goes to the liberal leadership elite that implement these programs and when you implement social programs without strings and limitations you create California's all over the country. Liberalism meant well but it is a failed ideology that ignores human behavior and incentive
    I will agree that ideas which don't account for rational ways to fund the programs should be critiqued. That, however, does not imply a failure of ideology but one of implementation; idealism that isn't tempered by practicality will likely fail.


    You assume that red states fail and you base that on some kind of reports that don't provide any context, TX may lead the nation in uninsured but context tells a different story as TX has programs for the uninsured and I am involved in one that services a lot of different people.
    Some clarification is needed then, because one would assume that if a program is providing coverage, those people would be classified among the insured. If any of these programs are Federally funded, then it doesn't really make a strong case for lack of government involvement. What's interesting in the states that are toward the bottom of the list is the public health numbers are pretty bad as well; it's not a good thing if not only is healthcare hard to access, but you have a population which will likely need quite a bit of it.

    As for the other failures I pointed out in education and poverty, they're based on educational test results and crime metrics. I'm not sure what other context is required to explain why state governments have failed to address them if conservative ideology is supposed to provide better solutions.

    Be careful in pointing to specific WHO reports none of which measure individual countries the same way.
    I base my assessments both on published information from multiple sources, as well as anecdotal information from the people I know who live there. I don't think any rational person assumes any of these countries don't have their share of problems in managing their social programs, but you don't get many people in those nations wishing they had the healthcare system we have here.

    It is quite telling that people are flocking to TX to apparently become uninsured, receive low wages, and fight pollution according to every report. Must be a lot of dumbass people and I only thought they were liberal
    The people who have been moving to Texas are generally middle class professionals who can aren't affected by the issues you cited above. Since you mentioned liberals, it's interesting to note that the main areas seeing the largest migration are the large cities, which interestingly enough lean liberal politically. What will be interesting to see over the long haul is the impact the added population has on local government, because as standard of living increases, so do the costs and the issues that brings. Migration to Texas has slowed in part due to the improved labor market, so we'll see if that changes.

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