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Please Stop Debating the Second Amendment Crowd.......

Those things are about as far from being an actual “ban” as humanly possible.

Probably false, depending on what you mean by "about." What would be farther, and still quite possible for human beings, is to remove all restrictions on buying and selling such weapons.







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More importantly it would cost well over a trillion dollars, and it would ultimately wind up creating innumerable unintended consequences, such as the largest underground black market in history, easily dwarfing the drug cartels.
Thus, just like the War on Drugs causing MORE drugs, the War on Guns would wind up causing MORE guns to be in circulation.

The math and logistics of confiscating almost a half billion guns is impossible.

I'm all for gun control, but the enormity of the problem in terms of reining in the bottomless supply of firearms is basically hopeless; genie's out of the bottle and has been for a long time. The best we can practically hope for is robust blanket checks, registries and licensing.
 
I'm all for gun control, but the enormity of the problem in terms of reining in the bottomless supply of firearms is basically hopeless; genie's out of the bottle and has been for a long time. The best we can practically hope for is robust blanket checks, registries and licensing.

Respect. Society needs to teach people basic respect for others.
Fix that and you fix a fair bit of the problem because basic respect and common sense dictate that one never resorts to a gun to fix a problem that starts with words or feelings.

I am a lefty gun owner. I have been around guns my entire life.
It's a tool, an appliance and a heavy responsibility.

Yes, a half billion guns means we're stuck with them, so we'd better learn to live with them.
One thing is certain...no gun law by itself will ever stop the bad guys.

We can't stop all the bad guys but it is our solemn responsibility to train "not bad" guys to be better "good guys", and to intercept and rehabilitate as many bad guys as we can.

It is an honor and a privilege to live as a citizen of a country with a Second Amendment, and if the people alive in the time of our founders could figure out how to make it work, we either better damn well figure it out for ourselves now, or just hand over the republic and everything it stands for to the highest bidder.
The Second Amendment stands out from the rest because of the enormous responsibility it entails.
We better damn well reassess just how enormous those responsibilities are.

The so called "gun problem" is really a "people problem".
 
Not .0001% of Americans want a national ban and confiscation..

There is no army willing to go door to door taking all the guns..

It would start a civil war...

No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation. As it would be political suicide to even suggest it..




So why is that the primary voting issue for half of republicans???? Well besides the propaganda crowd hyping up the sheeple..



BECAUSE THEY TAKE PEOPLE DEBATING THE HYPOTHETICAL EVENT WHERE A MAGIC GENIE MADE ALL THE GUNS DISAPPEAR, WOULD MAKE AMERICA SAFER, AS PROOF OF A VAST CONSPIRACY TO TAKE THEOR GUNS!!!!!

Well is that debate even worth having when there ain’t no F’n genies and the other party is going to take that as proof of a vast leftist Illuminati????

I kinda think the EXTREMELY bad arguments that could be example questions in a logical fallacy text book, are intentionally engineered to cause a debate when both people already agree on the fundamentals..

For example , probably the most common second amendment crowd talking point,

“Guns don’t kill people , people kill people...”

That could literally be the example question of a logical fallacy as it pretends ANYONE believes that guns float off the table solo and commit murders...


What if the logical fallacy part is intentional to fabricate a bad guy where there is none???


Say person X and Y both agree a national ban and confiscation is a bad idea, but X is a hard right conservatives just waiting for the government to come after his guns and Y is a moderate..

So When X says , “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” and them Y starts to debate the logic of his statement, NOT the logic of the actual ban/confiscation.

X person then takes Y person debating the stupidity of his talking point, as him debating the deeper point of “banning all the guns”..


Abracadabra: a bad guy where there was none....













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You do know participation in individual threads is voluntary, right? If you don't want to participate in a thread, don't.
 
No, the process to do so in most states is prohibitive for most people. Even movie producers don't usually get a license to possess the real deal.



In that case, either: you didn't understand what the author of the textbook was saying, the author of the textbook didn't understand the argument, or the author of the textbook didn't understand whatever logical fallacy she was attributing to that phrase.



Not exactly the same, but I'd grant they're likely analogous. However, one could reasonably and consistently be a proponent of gun rights, including the right of private citizens to freely and without restriction own grenade launchers, rocket launchers, artillery, etc. while simultaneously being against private citizens being able to own nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons.



Which is why the arguments cannot be literally the same. Presumably there is some kind of scalar threshold series that factor into the arguments. I could agree that private citizens ought to have the right to own something that, if used to do so, could have the potential to kill 50 people at a time, but disagree that private citizens should be able to own something that has the potential to kill 500 people at a time, by pointing to the different danger thresholds in each case. The explanation of the result in each case is the same, but explanations and arguments differ with respect to the direction of doxastic flow, and hence the argument for each could not be the same.



Wait...who said that's what the slogan in question argues? Read more carefully what I wrote in my previous post about this phrase...



But even if you were correctly construing the slogan "guns don't kill people, people kill people" (i.e. to mean that everyone should have guns), it wouldn't follow that a slogan of
P1: Socrates is a man.
P2: All men are mortal.
C1: Therefore, Socrates is mortal

This argument of the same form:

P1. Russia is a moon
P2: All moons are made of cheese
C1: Therefore, Russia is made of cheese

is merely valid. It is clearly not sound, since both premises (as well as the conclusion) are false.

There is arguably a difference in how diffuse the intent is behind pulling the trigger on a firearm, and pushing the button on an ICBM, and hence while it may be true that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," it may nevertheless be false that "nukes don't kill people, people kill people." This gets into some technical issues in philosophy of action, and I don't have the time or space to fully elucidate them. A good place to start is the SEP page on philosophy of action, which is here:

Action (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

However the argument about necessary degrees of intention turns out, though, the fact remains that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is not an argument for people owning guns. It's an argument against restricting gun ownership as the real solution to the problem of murder. It's meant to counter a criticism leveled at gun ownership by those who would restrict firearm access. It's not meant as a positive argument for gun ownership.

B) I 100% understood what it meant..

I forget which logical fallacy it was siting as half are Latin, but ,


Argument from ignorance: “guns don’t kill people , people kill people”.

Then it went into the fallacy of an inanimate object floating off the table..

Argument from ignorance is wrong.. just an example.. he’ll I’ll look it up in after I reply..



C) of course a private citizen can support whatever...

The question was is “guns don’t kill people , people kill people” a logical fallacy???

That statement makes no disclaimer for death rates, which is the whole crux of the arguments for gun regulation..

Nukes can kill 50 million people so they need to be regulated at 100%.

Tanks at : 75%

Granada’s at : 50%

Assault rifle type: 45%

More traditional guns :40%

Knives at : 25%

Then you take those numbers and divide them by their functional value to society and boo-ya.. you got your regulation table.

The numbers being random examples of course....






If “guns don’t kill people, people do” is not a fallacy. you could substitute anything else in that sentence and it still remain true because it makes no allowances for death rates and death rates are the primary argument they are supposed to be debating..

You cannot..

Aka “nukes don’t kill people”..

D) fair enough me saying “everyone” is a logical fallacy too..

Will try and answer the rest later






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More importantly it would cost well over a trillion dollars, and it would ultimately wind up creating innumerable unintended consequences, such as the largest underground black market in history, easily dwarfing the drug cartels.
Thus, just like the War on Drugs causing MORE drugs, the War on Guns would wind up causing MORE guns to be in circulation.

The math and logistics of confiscating almost a half billion guns is impossible.

EXCELLENT POINT?!? At least liberal conspiracy theories have a profit based motive.. conservative ones assume these people are wasting their fortunes over principle. Lol


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it's one of three issues that Rush and Sean use to make Republicans ready to fight.
 
There are even less acts of voter fraud per year, do you oppose all forms of voter registration?


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All forms?

Nope. I think what we currently have is fine.
 
You do know participation in individual threads is voluntary, right? If you don't want to participate in a thread, don't.

This has nothing to do with a forum..

I mean it universally..

Obviously conservatives cannot handle the debate without going all “Illuminati turning the frogs gay.”


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All forms?

Nope. I think what we currently have is fine.

Yea... anything that keeps everyone from voting and stops their votes being counted equally.. am I right??

Lol


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Probably false, depending on what you mean by "about." What would be farther, and still quite possible for human beings, is to remove all restrictions on buying and selling such weapons.







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Call me crazy but isn’t the definition of ban the relevant question?!?!

Does a ban mean “people cannot have that”?

Or does a ban mean “people need a license first to buy that”.

With a ban you would be charged if caught in possession of whatever, at least normally, right??

If they did pass , the assault rifle ban for example, would it be a crime to possess one after that???

Only if you bought a brand new one without a license...


All other assault rifles are still perfectly legal..

That’s not a ban..


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Government has the right to regulate the militia.

However: the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

So regulate the militia. Leave the people and their Arms alone
 
You're request was:

Cite, please. your proof that the following is not true: "No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation".

Not:

None of them support your claim that they want a national gun ban in America, not as major groupings with in the Democratic Party, not as the DNC.


To add criteria after the fact, without admitting my claim was supported, is dishonest. You are dismissed.
 
How about we regulate guns (a well regulated militia) like we do cars? You register your gun and you need a valid license to operate it?

If you don't have a valid registration or license, the cops fine you, just like they do if you don't have a car registration and license.

How about we do the same with speech, religion, press, and the right to not incriminate ourselves?

All included in the Bill of Rights. Driving isn't.
 
Ok fair enough. However, while certain types may be banned in your state you can still purchase other firearms. Thanks for providing that info and just to be crystal clear, no, I am not for banning any firearm.

Should not the same logic also apply to speech, religion, and press?
 
When the framers of the Constitution used the words "well regulated", they meant trained, NOT controlled or regulated as in laws

In the framers time, well regulated meant in good working order.

Clocks were referred to in the same manner.
 
However: the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

So regulate the militia. Leave the people and their Arms alone

Oh, I agree with that. However, since people with guns kill people, the crazee gunners will be regulated.
 
holbritter is trying to change what was said, which was the Democrats wanted a national ban.

That is a lie.
 
That too...Because you can't be in good working order if not trained.
 
Should not the same logic also apply to speech, religion, and press?

You’ll have to be more specific. Examples?
 
You’ll have to be more specific. Examples?

Concealed carry

Background check
Visit to sheriff office for fingerprint/photo
Mandatory classroom training ($250+)
3 day(or more) wait time for issue
Payment of license fee
There are other restrictions

Speech, religion, reporting:

None of the above.
 
And the TRULY sad thing is we have people that profess to be gun owners (if those pieces of **** are to be believed that they are in fact gun owners) that are willing participants in that process...that SUPPORT those rat ****s and their gun bans.

Come on guys...its not a REAL ban...its just you know...common sense........

****ing twats...the lot.
 
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