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Please Stop Debating the Second Amendment Crowd.......

How about we regulate guns (a well regulated militia) like we do cars? You register your gun and you need a valid license to operate it?

If you don't have a valid registration or license, the cops fine you, just like they do if you don't have a car registration and license.

What ever is clever... just in no way humor the concept of all the guns being gone... because that is not even on the table..

When they try and drag the debate to that, refuse to be drug...


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That would be a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

All citizens have a right to keep and bear arms. It plainly states this in the 2nd Amendment.

The government shall not infringe (tax, license, restrict) on this right.


They why hasn’t it been used to block the amount of regulation we have???

“Shall not be infringed “ doesn’t leave room for regulation at all... any regulation is infringement, right??


Guess when the Supreme Court decided that the second amendment referred in any way to private citizens??

Like 2003....

Until then legally the second amendment was only interpreted to refer to militias..


That doesn’t mean the founding fathers supported banning guns and such...

It just means the second amendment didn’t refer to private cotizen’s personally owning guns..

My personal guess is that banning guns were so inconceivable in frontier America that it was unthinkable... you had bears, Indians and the British..

They were literally a tool a large percentage of the population used every day.. they didn’t feel the need to protect private citizens owning cutlery either...

So while it DOES NOT mean the founding fathers wanted to leave a back foot for gun control, it DOES mean conservative commentators must think their veiwer are stupid when they pretend d otherwise.


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Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 (AWCA) prohibits unlicensed transfer of ARs across state lines.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/infobuls/200004.pdf

I am not a convicted felon.
I just do not know how ya’ll are making the leap from that , to jack booted thugs going door to door...

And I have no idea where the jack booted thugs are coming from?!?!!

An army of vegan , tree hugging , transvestites triggered by micro aggressions going door to door gun grabbing?????!!!

I can think of no scenario that would lead to an actual ban this century...


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They why hasn’t it been used to block the amount of regulation we have???
Great question.


“Shall not be infringed “ doesn’t leave room for regulation at all... any regulation is infringement, right??
By definition, yes:

infringe

inˈfrinj (verb)

Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on.


Guess when the Supreme Court decided that the second amendment referred in any way to private citizens??
In some cases, the Supreme Court has ruled that "the People" is referring to private citizens.
 
Great question.


By definition, yes:

infringe

inˈfrinj (verb)

Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on.


In some cases, the Supreme Court has ruled that "the People" is referring to private citizens.


It was in like 2003... maybe 2009.. I forget, but it was more recent than my teenage daughter’s birth. Lol

It was ONLY interpreted to be referring to militias until then...

The first known instance of anyone claiming the second amendment referred to personal gun ownership. Was the head of the black panthers in the 70’s.. maybe 60s... I forget..

Now that doesn’t mean the founding fathers wanted to leave a back door for gun control.. my personal guess is it was such an alien concept they didn’t feel the need to specifically protect personal gun ownership..

It does mean that the people who point to the constitution and/or the founding fathers as big pro-second amendment people, look foolish..




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When the framers of the Constitution used the words "well regulated", they meant trained, NOT controlled or regulated as in laws
 
Wrong....... "No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation. As it would be political suicide to even suggest it.."


H.R. 1296: Assault Weapons Ban of 2019

This Act may be cited as the "Assault Weapons Ban of 2019".

(i)

All AK types, including the following:
(I)

AK, AK–47, AK–47S, AK–74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR–47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK–47, VEPR, WASR–10, and WUM.
(II)

IZHMASH Saiga AK.
(III)

MAADI AK–47 and ARM.
(IV)

Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S.
(V)

Poly Technologies AK–47 and AKS.
(ii)

All AR types, including the following:
(I)

AR–10.
(II)

AR–15.
(III)

Alexander Arms Overmatch Plus 16.
(IV)

Armalite M15 22LR Carbine.
(V)

Armalite M15–T.
(VI)

Barrett REC7.
(VII)

Beretta AR–70.
(VIII)

Black Rain Ordnance Recon Scout.
(IX)

Bushmaster ACR.
(X)

Bushmaster Carbon 15.
(XI)

Bushmaster MOE series.
(XII)

Bushmaster XM15.
(XIII)

Chiappa Firearms MFour rifles.
(XIV)

Colt Match Target rifles.
(XV)

CORE Rifle Systems CORE15 rifles.
(XVI)

Daniel Defense M4A1 rifles.
(XVII)

Devil Dog Arms 15 Series rifles.
(XVIII)

Diamondback DB15 rifles.
(XIX)

DoubleStar AR rifles.
(XX)

DPMS Tactical rifles.
(XXI)

DSA Inc. ZM–4 Carbine.
(XXII)

Heckler & Koch MR556.
(XXIII)

High Standard HSA–15 rifles.
(XXIV)

Jesse James Nomad AR–15 rifle.
(XXV)

Knight’s Armament SR–15.
(XXVI)

Lancer L15 rifles.
(XXVII)

MGI Hydra Series rifles.
(XXVIII)

Mossberg MMR Tactical rifles.
(XXIX)

Noreen Firearms BN 36 rifle.
(XXX)

Olympic Arms.
(XXXI)

POF USA P415.
(XXXII)

Precision Firearms AR rifles.
(XXXIII)

Remington R–15 rifles.
(XXXIV)

Rhino Arms AR rifles.
(XXXV)

Rock River Arms LAR–15.
(XXXVI)

Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles and MCX rifles.
(XXXVII)

SKS with a detachable magazine.
(XXXVIII)

Smith & Wesson M&P15 rifles.
(XXXIX)

Stag Arms AR rifles.
(XL)

Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 and AR–556 rifles.
(XLI)

Uselton Arms Air-Lite M–4 rifles.
(XLII)

Windham Weaponry AR rifles.
(XLIII)

WMD Guns Big Beast.
(XLIV)

Yankee Hill Machine Company, Inc. YHM–15 rifles.
(iii)

Barrett M107A1.
(iv)

Barrett M82A1.
(v)

Beretta CX4 Storm.
(vi)

Calico Liberty Series.
(vii)

CETME Sporter.
(viii)

Daewoo K–1, K–2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.
(ix)

Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000.
(x)

Feather Industries AT–9.
(xi)

Galil Model AR and Model ARM.
(xii)

Hi-Point Carbine.
(xiii)

HK–91, HK–93, HK–94, HK–PSG–1, and HK USC.
(xiv)

IWI TAVOR, Galil ACE rifle.
(xv)

Kel-Tec Sub-2000, SU–16, and RFB.
(xvi)

SIG AMT, SIG PE–57, Sig Sauer SG 550, Sig Sauer SG 551, and SIG MCX.
(xvii)

Springfield Armory SAR–48.
(xviii)

Steyr AUG.
(xix)

Sturm, Ruger & Co. Mini-14 Tactical Rifle M–14/20CF.
(xx)

All Thompson rifles, including the following:
(I)

Thompson M1SB.
(II)

Thompson T1100D.
(III)

Thompson T150D.
(IV)

Thompson T1B.
(V)

Thompson T1B100D.
(VI)

Thompson T1B50D.
(VII)

Thompson T1BSB.
(VIII)

Thompson T1–C.
(IX)

Thompson T1D.
(X)

Thompson T1SB.
(XI)

Thompson T5.
(XII)

Thompson T5100D.
(XIII)

Thompson TM1.
(XIV)

Thompson TM1C.
(xxi)

UMAREX UZI rifle.
(xxii)

UZI Mini Carbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine.
(xxiii)

Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78.
(xxiv)

Vector Arms UZI Type.
(xxv)

Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(xxvi)

Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.
(I)

All of the following pistols, copies, duplicates, variants, or altered facsimiles with the capability of any such weapon thereof:
(i)

All AK–47 types, including the following:
(I)

Centurion 39 AK pistol.
(II)

CZ Scorpion pistol.
(III)

Draco AK–47 pistol.
(IV)

HCR AK–47 pistol.
(V)

IO Inc. Hellpup AK–47 pistol.
(VI)

Krinkov pistol.
(VII)

Mini Draco AK–47 pistol.
(VIII)

PAP M92 pistol.
(IX)

Yugo Krebs Krink pistol.
(ii)

All AR–15 types, including the following:
(I)

American Spirit AR–15 pistol.
(II)

Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol.
(III)

Chiappa Firearms M4 Pistol GEN II.
(IV)

CORE Rifle Systems CORE15 Roscoe pistol.
(V)

Daniel Defense MK18 pistol.
(VI)

DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol.
(VII)

DPMS AR–15 pistol.
(VIII)

Jesse James Nomad AR–15 pistol.
(IX)

Olympic Arms AR–15 pistol.
(X)

Osprey Armament MK–18 pistol.
(XI)

POF USA AR pistols.
(XII)

Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol.
(XIII)

Uselton Arms Air-Lite M–4 pistol.
(iii)

Calico Liberty pistols.
(iv)

DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol.
(v)

Encom MP–9 and MP–45.
(vi)

Heckler & Koch model SP–89 pistol.
(vii)

Intratec AB–10, TEC–22 Scorpion, TEC–9, and TEC–DC9.
(viii)

IWI Galil Ace pistol, UZI PRO pistol.
(ix)

Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol.
(x)

The following MAC types:
(I)

MAC–10.
(II)

MAC–11.
(III)

Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol.
(IV)

Military Armament Corp. Ingram M–11.
(V)

Velocity Arms VMAC.
(xi)

Sig Sauer P556 pistol.
(xii)

Sites Spectre.
(xiii)

All Thompson types, including the following:
(I)

Thompson TA510D.
(II)

Thompson TA5.
(xiv)
 
H.R. 1296: Assault Weapons Ban of 2019

Text of H.R. 1296: Assault Weapons Ban of 2019 (Introduced version) - GovTrack.us

(xiv)

All UZI types, including Micro-UZI.
(J)

All of the following shotguns, copies, duplicates, variants, or altered facsimiles with the capability of any such weapon thereof:
(i)

DERYA Anakon MC–1980, Anakon SD12.
(ii)

Doruk Lethal shotguns.
(iii)

Franchi LAW–12 and SPAS 12.
(iv)

All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following:
(I)

IZHMASH Saiga 12.
(II)

IZHMASH Saiga 12S.
(III)

IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP–01.
(IV)

IZHMASH Saiga 12K.
(V)

IZHMASH Saiga 12K–030.
(VI)

IZHMASH Saiga 12K–040 Taktika.
(v)

Streetsweeper.
(vi)

Striker 12.
(K)

All belt-fed semiautomatic firearms, including TNW M2HB and FN M2495.
(L)

Any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraphs (A) through (K) can be assembled.
 
It was in like 2003... maybe 2009.. I forget, but it was more recent than my teenage daughter’s birth. Lol

It was ONLY interpreted to be referring to militias until then...

The first known instance of anyone claiming the second amendment referred to personal gun ownership. Was the head of the black panthers in the 70’s.. maybe 60s... I forget..

Now that doesn’t mean the founding fathers wanted to leave a back door for gun control.. my personal guess is it was such an alien concept they didn’t feel the need to specifically protect personal gun ownership..

It does mean that the people who point to the constitution and/or the founding fathers as big pro-second amendment people, look foolish..




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District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that the District of Columbia's handgun ban and requirement that lawfully owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee
 
Uh, no.

It is encumbant on Y to explain why its ok to infringe the 2nd amendment rights of over 200,000,000 legal gun owners, in order to maybe prevent 100,000 criminal acts per year executed with the aid of fire arms.

There are even less acts of voter fraud per year, do you oppose all forms of voter registration?


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Regulate gun lovers well.

Its gun haters like Carlo Rowan who need to be regulated. After preaching condemnation to anyone caught with a gun in DC Rowan has the stupid idea of shooting a black kid for swimming in his pool without permission. When asked what he, of all people, should be doing with an unlicensed and unregistered firearm, Rowan explained that he has the right to defend his property. Are all leftist democrats that stupid and hypocritical?
 
Its gun haters like Carlo Rowan who need to be regulated. After preaching condemnation to anyone caught with a gun in DC Rowan has the stupid idea of shooting a black kid for swimming in his pool without permission. When asked what he, of all people, should be doing with an unlicensed and unregistered firearm, Rowan explained that he has the right to defend his property. Are all leftist democrats that stupid and hypocritical?


A) Wasn’t the gun one of his son’s service weapons who was an FBI agent??


The shooting itself was pretty shady if memory serves, I don’t think he was being threatened at all.. I would have to look it up..


B) I just looked it up and DAMN?!??

Is that really a good example for the second amendment crowd?!?!

Your pointing to an example where some jack
@$$ shot some unarmed kid for sneakingly swimming in his pool without permission?!?!


I do not know if a hypocrite POLITICIAN, trumps you pooping on the deeper issue of claiming that enough of the population can be trusted with guns for it to be an inherent right, rather than you needing a license and training first..






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That is no where near a ban and/or confiscation..

If the second amendment crowd had to fund raise on that because they were gonna actually be honest about what the other side was trying to do, there would be no NRA..


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No, but it's a start. And if people weren't vigilant about it, it would, and can be worse. It's when people get apathetic about an issue, that others take advantage to shove more laws through.


No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation. As it would be political suicide to even suggest it..

That's just not true. Democrats spent years denying they want to take our guns away...not anymore:

Bloomberg's plan is a national ban on all assault weapons, and a limit of 3 rounds in a rifle.

Beto O'Rourke: "Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. And yes, he said the word 'confiscation'

Cory Booker's policy would have required all gun owners to acquire a license through the federal government. Warren, and Buttigieg echoed their support for a national gun licensing program.

So yeah, we have to be vigilant.
 
Its gun haters like Carlo Rowan who need to be regulated. After preaching condemnation to anyone caught with a gun in DC Rowan has the stupid idea of shooting a black kid for swimming in his pool without permission. When asked what he, of all people, should be doing with an unlicensed and unregistered firearm, Rowan explained that he has the right to defend his property. Are all leftist democrats that stupid and hypocritical?

Another example for the need of regulating people who buy, possess, bear, and use guns.
 
No, but it's a start. And if people weren't vigilant about it, it would, and can be worse. It's when people get apathetic about an issue, that others take advantage to shove more laws through.


No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation. As it would be political suicide to even suggest it..

That's just not true. Democrats spent years denying they want to take our guns away...not anymore:

Bloomberg's plan is a national ban on all assault weapons, and a limit of 3 rounds in a rifle.

Beto O'Rourke: "Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. And yes, he said the word 'confiscation'

Cory Booker's policy would have required all gun owners to acquire a license through the federal government. Warren, and Buttigieg echoed their support for a national gun licensing program.

So yeah, we have to be vigilant.

Cite, please. your proof that the following is not true: "No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation".
 
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that the District of Columbia's handgun ban and requirement that lawfully owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee

That decision was in legal error. The People are the Militia. You are either well regulated or unorganized. There is no one unconnected with the militia only the militia, well regulated.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
 
Not .0001% of Americans want a national ban and confiscation..

There is no army willing to go door to door taking all the guns..

It would start a civil war...

No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation. As it would be political suicide to even suggest it.

Well, there already are very strict regulations on fully automatic weapons, grenade launchers, rocket launchers, etc, such that most people are unable to obtain one. And there are proposed bans on assault rifles. Those already violate the second amendment.

For example , probably the most common second amendment crowd talking point,

“Guns don’t kill people , people kill people...”

That could literally be the example question of a logical fallacy as it pretends ANYONE believes that guns float off the table solo and commit murders...

No, this is not a fallacy. It's pointing out that the decisive causal contributor to a murder is not the presence of a gun just as such, which lacks, as far as anyone can tell, volition. Rather, murder is an intentional action performed by a human being on other human beings, and hence the chief causal contributor is the volition of the murderer. Think about any other description of an intentional action you like, and we describe it in accordance with this intuition. "Joey played Bach's 1st air on the piano," "Hillary threw a ball through the window," "Jones stacked some bricks on his back porch," "Jennifer flew the helicopter through the smoke," "Margery set up the three monitors to work together," etc. In all cases, we cast the action as person P doing action S. The observation that people kill people is merely to draw attention to the fact that murder is an intentional action. Removing guns may halt some instances of mass murder (or may not--people may start using cars or improvised explosives made of household chemicals, for instance), but wouldn't address the real causal issue.
 
Cite, please. your proof that the following is not true: "No politician in American history has ever even proposed a national ban/confiscation".

Did you not read the post to which you replied? Beto did just that. Once it is deemed constitutional to do so for some guns/gun features, it is then only a matter of adding more guns/gun features to that ban/confiscation law. Think of it like the controlled substances act - nationwide prohibition was accomplished by simply adding an item to a list.
 
Well, there already are very strict regulations on fully automatic weapons, grenade launchers, rocket launchers, etc, such that most people are unable to obtain one. And there are proposed bans on assault rifles. Those already violate the second amendment.



No, this is not a fallacy. It's pointing out that the decisive causal contributor to a murder is not the presence of a gun just as such, which lacks, as far as anyone can tell, volition. Rather, murder is an intentional action performed by a human being on other human beings, and hence the chief causal contributor is the volition of the murderer. Think about any other description of an intentional action you like, and we describe it in accordance with this intuition. "Joey played Bach's 1st air on the piano," "Hillary threw a ball through the window," "Jones stacked some bricks on his back porch," "Jennifer flew the helicopter through the smoke," "Margery set up the three monitors to work together," etc. In all cases, we cast the action as person P doing action S. The observation that people kill people is merely to draw attention to the fact that murder is an intentional action. Removing guns may halt some instances of mass murder (or may not--people may start using cars or improvised explosives made of household chemicals, for instance), but wouldn't address the real causal issue.

A) And yet, as you correctly worded, even full auto and Grenade launchers are not “banned”. You can get the right license and buy one today..

Now for a grande launcher your gonna need a good reason, but apparently “I want to make a movie” and “I want to run a gun range” . Is a good enough reason..

B) it 100% is a logical fallacy. I have literally seen it as the example in a text book.

The argument for stricter gun regulation is the same for ALL dangerous materials..

The more dangerous the material, the more restrictions that are in place..

If guns don’t kill people, people kill people” is a good argument for everyone having guns.

Then “nukes don’t kill people, people kill people”, would be a valid argument for everyone having nukes..

If “guns don’t kill people “ was not a logical fallacy. You could substitute anything in the place of guns and the argument would still be true.


Or all law abiding people having nukes, lol..






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Another example for the need of regulating people who buy, possess, bear, and use guns.

Or regulating people who have no respect for the Constitution and American freedoms and rights.
 
A) And yet, as you correctly worded, even full auto and Grenade launchers are not “banned”. You can get the right license and buy one today..

Now for a grande launcher your gonna need a good reason, but apparently “I want to make a movie” and “I want to run a gun range” . Is a good enough reason..

No, the process to do so in most states is prohibitive for most people. Even movie producers don't usually get a license to possess the real deal.

B) it 100% is a logical fallacy. I have literally seen it as the example in a text book.

In that case, either: you didn't understand what the author of the textbook was saying, the author of the textbook didn't understand the argument, or the author of the textbook didn't understand whatever logical fallacy she was attributing to that phrase.

The argument for stricter gun regulation is the same for ALL dangerous materials.

Not exactly the same, but I'd grant they're likely analogous. However, one could reasonably and consistently be a proponent of gun rights, including the right of private citizens to freely and without restriction own grenade launchers, rocket launchers, artillery, etc. while simultaneously being against private citizens being able to own nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons.

The more dangerous the material, the more restrictions that are in place..

Which is why the arguments cannot be literally the same. Presumably there is some kind of scalar threshold series that factor into the arguments. I could agree that private citizens ought to have the right to own something that, if used to do so, could have the potential to kill 50 people at a time, but disagree that private citizens should be able to own something that has the potential to kill 500 people at a time, by pointing to the different danger thresholds in each case. The explanation of the result in each case is the same, but explanations and arguments differ with respect to the direction of doxastic flow, and hence the argument for each could not be the same.

If guns don’t kill people, people kill people” is a good argument for everyone having guns.

Wait...who said that's what the slogan in question argues? Read more carefully what I wrote in my previous post about this phrase...

Then “nukes don’t kill people, people kill people”, would be a valid argument for everyone having nukes.

But even if you were correctly construing the slogan "guns don't kill people, people kill people" (i.e. to mean that everyone should have guns), it wouldn't follow that a slogan of the same form, with "nukes" subbed in for "guns" would be a good argument for everyone owning nukes.

If “guns don’t kill people “ was not a logical fallacy. You could substitute anything in the place of guns and the argument would still be true.

No, incorrect. This is only true of formal fallacies, where the form of reasoning guarantees that the argument is not valid. Most arguments depend on semantic content. If what you were claiming here were true, then valid argument forms would also be subject to the same principle. However, while this argument is sound:

P1: Socrates is a man.
P2: All men are mortal.
C1: Therefore, Socrates is mortal

This argument of the same form:

P1. Russia is a moon
P2: All moons are made of cheese
C1: Therefore, Russia is made of cheese

is merely valid. It is clearly not sound, since both premises (as well as the conclusion) are false.

There is arguably a difference in how diffuse the intent is behind pulling the trigger on a firearm, and pushing the button on an ICBM, and hence while it may be true that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," it may nevertheless be false that "nukes don't kill people, people kill people." This gets into some technical issues in philosophy of action, and I don't have the time or space to fully elucidate them. A good place to start is the SEP page on philosophy of action, which is here:

Action (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

However the argument about necessary degrees of intention turns out, though, the fact remains that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is not an argument for people owning guns. It's an argument against restricting gun ownership as the real solution to the problem of murder. It's meant to counter a criticism leveled at gun ownership by those who would restrict firearm access. It's not meant as a positive argument for gun ownership.
 
No, the process to do so in most states is prohibitive for most people. Even movie producers don't usually get a license to possess the real deal.



In that case, either: you didn't understand what the author of the textbook was saying, the author of the textbook didn't understand the argument, or the author of the textbook didn't understand whatever logical fallacy she was attributing to that phrase.



Not exactly the same, but I'd grant they're likely analogous. However, one could reasonably and consistently be a proponent of gun rights, including the right of private citizens to freely and without restriction own grenade launchers, rocket launchers, artillery, etc. while simultaneously being against private citizens being able to own nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons.



Which is why the arguments cannot be literally the same. Presumably there is some kind of scalar threshold series that factor into the arguments. I could agree that private citizens ought to have the right to own something that, if used to do so, could have the potential to kill 50 people at a time, but disagree that private citizens should be able to own something that has the potential to kill 500 people at a time, by pointing to the different danger thresholds in each case. The explanation of the result in each case is the same, but explanations and arguments differ with respect to the direction of doxastic flow, and hence the argument for each could not be the same.



Wait...who said that's what the slogan in question argues? Read more carefully what I wrote in my previous post about this phrase...



But even if you were correctly construing the slogan "guns don't kill people, people kill people" (i.e. to mean that everyone should have guns), it wouldn't follow that a slogan of the same form, with "nukes" subbed in for "guns" would be a good argument for everyone owning nukes.



No, incorrect. This is only true of formal fallacies, where the form of reasoning guarantees that the argument is not valid. Most arguments depend on semantic content. If what you were claiming here were true, then valid argument forms would also be subject to the same principle. However, while this argument is sound:

P1: Socrates is a man.
P2: All men are mortal.
C1: Therefore, Socrates is mortal

This argument of the same form:

P1. Russia is a moon
P2: All moons are made of cheese
C1: Therefore, Russia is made of cheese

is merely valid. It is clearly not sound, since both premises (as well as the conclusion) are false.

There is arguably a difference in how diffuse the intent is behind pulling the trigger on a firearm, and pushing the button on an ICBM, and hence while it may be true that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," it may nevertheless be false that "nukes don't kill people, people kill people." This gets into some technical issues in philosophy of action, and I don't have the time or space to fully elucidate them. A good place to start is the SEP page on philosophy of action, which is here:

Action (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

However the argument about necessary degrees of intention turns out, though, the fact remains that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is not an argument for people owning guns. It's an argument against restricting gun ownership as the real solution to the problem of murder. It's meant to counter a criticism leveled at gun ownership by those who would restrict firearm access. It's not meant as a positive argument for gun ownership.



A) Of course the process is hard.. it is a F’n
Grenade launcher?!?!? Lol

But assuming you have a valid reason, no criminal record and such, you can absolutely still get one..


THE ONLY FIGHT with ANY of this is if you have an image right to have a fire arm or whether you should get a license first...

That’s it..

The “worst” thing the Democrats have ever proposed is stopping selling NEWLY MANUFACTURED assault rifles to people without a license...

Because the grandfather clause leaves the millions in circulation already, perfectly legal to buy sell and trade..


Those things are about as far from being an actual “ban” as humanly possible..







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Not .0001% of Americans want a national ban and confiscation..

There is no army willing to go door to door taking all the guns..

It would start a civil war...

More importantly it would cost well over a trillion dollars, and it would ultimately wind up creating innumerable unintended consequences, such as the largest underground black market in history, easily dwarfing the drug cartels.
Thus, just like the War on Drugs causing MORE drugs, the War on Guns would wind up causing MORE guns to be in circulation.

The math and logistics of confiscating almost a half billion guns is impossible.
 
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