Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 201

Thread: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

  1. #151
    Advisor jaypatriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    501

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbyoung View Post
    Integrityrespec is talking about 'judicial' crimes not impeachment.

    swing_voter understands the GOP circus in the Senate will find Trump but does not understand that the Senate cannot find him innocent only Not Guilty The info coming out however will add to the growing indictments of Trump in the various states when he leaves office.
    james,
    Like you really believe the Dems will go after him after he leaves office? To what end? Wouldn't that be more of a waste of time and money knowing the current charges are Trumped-up without merit?
    Will that be a national pasttime indicting Trump for fun and profit?
    That's like going after Hillary because she broke national security laws with her illegal server.

  2. #152
    Advisor jaypatriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    501

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbyoung View Post
    The GOP, however, will be beaten down badly in the federal and state elections.

    The American voter is not going to put up with their anti-Americanism any more
    I guess you won't accept the argument that American voters might be thinking the Democrats are acting very un-American because they want to negate the 2016 election without giving the voters a chance to decide on the next president. Does that sound American to you?

  3. #153
    Advisor jaypatriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    501

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Yep, impeachment is purely a political process. The only power the congress has is to remove a president. They can't sentence him to jail or convict him of a crime. Impeachment is all about removal, nothing else. We go by the phrase guilty or not guilty when casting votes. But I've a mind that instead of those phrases, it should be remove and don't remove.
    What does the brilliant Pelosi mean when she says this impeachment process is not political? It is protecting the Constitution, she says. And our democracy. Don't you believe her?

  4. #154
    Advisor jaypatriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    501

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Trump violated the emoluments clause when he conspired with a foreign government to benefit himself and then obstructed congress when they tried to investigate his actions. Both are violations of the constitution and impeachable offenses.

    There is not a lot precedence for impeachment. Clinton was impeached for lying to a grand jury....whereas Trump was impeached for violating his oath of office and the constitution. Trump's offense was far more serious because he put national security at risk, whereas Clinton did not.

    PS...it's "high crimes" which means "abuse of authority" and does not require the same standard of proof that is required in criminal law. And no serious argument can be made that democrats in congress abused their power. They acted exactly how the founders intended when a president abuses his power and oath of office.
    Moot,
    You wrote, " Trump's offense was far more serious because he put national security at risk, whereas Clinton did not. "
    He put our national security at risk by delaying the transfer of funds to Ukraine? How were we put at risk? The money for weapons to fight Russian insurgents was given to them.
    You seem to be grasping at Democratic narratives and talking points that don't make any sense at all.

    Is the word "emoluments" located anywhere within the articles of impeachment?

  5. #155
    Doctor D
    Oborosen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Heflin, Alabama
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,593

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by jaypatriot View Post
    Moot,
    You wrote, " Trump's offense was far more serious because he put national security at risk, whereas Clinton did not. "
    He put our national security at risk by delaying the transfer of funds to Ukraine? How were we put at risk? The money for weapons to fight Russian insurgents was given to them.
    You seem to be grasping at Democratic narratives and talking points that don't make any sense at all.

    Is the word "emoluments" located anywhere within the articles of impeachment?
    You're barking up the wrong tree, if you're actually asking a direct question.
    Why do they run?
    Because they have no choice son, such is the way of cowards.
    But even a cornered rat, with no choice, will fight.
    Yes my son, and that should tell you more than you need to know about the coward.

  6. #156
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    56,638

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradoxical View Post
    Why didn't they charge him with bribery then?
    they impeached him for abuse of office and obstruction of congress. i would have tossed in more articles and gotten him to testify under oath, but no one asked me.

  7. #157
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,216

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    The first problem is perhaps the less foreceful. The power to impeach specifically refer to crimes and misdemeanors and, prior to the current case, all cases involving the impeachment of president involved criminal charges. You might find this to be a less interesting point, but it's absolutely fair to point out that Democrats have set a new precedent and there is always some danger in setting new precedents.
    You may want to check your facts. "Abuse of Power" was article of impeachment for both of the last 2 Impeachment cases being pursued (Clinton and Nixon). "High crimes and misdemeanors" is a phrase with a long history, from long before US even existed, and it does not mean "crimes under US law code". Here is just one link talking about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    The second problem in my opinion is far more serious. I will concede right away that you can absolutely have legitimate misgivings about how much Donald Trump can be trusted with executive authority in the comming years. However, what do you think would happen if you gave a list of hypothetical scenarios to strangers and asked them whether or not they constituted either "obstruction of congress" or "abuse of power"? I think you would get a lot of very different answers. I am not saying that the social norm, the ethical standard you wish to enforce here has no merit. What I am saying is that the grey area around the line you're trying to draw is too easy to manipulate. If Donald Trump committed purjury, we would be having a very different conversation: it's a clear line and the dispute would center around facts, not around how far the president is allowed to go. And that is the problem. People who dislike the president will say that he clearly crossed a line and people who like him will say that the line must be further because others before him did far worse.

    If you lived in a world where Democrats and Republicans agreed on a strict limit to executive powers and observed high standards of moral behavior, I would completely agree with you: that was going too far. But in the current context, going after Trump for anything short of something really horrible is going to be perceived as highly partisan. To Republican voters and even to many moderates, the whole process looks like Democrats trying to circumvent the electoral process.
    There is nothing grey about this. To use your example, I am quite sure if I gave these hypothetical scenarios to strangers and asked them whether or not they constituted either "obstruction of congress" or "abuse of power", most would agree that the first one is much LESS of an impeachable offense than others:

    (1) President X lied to Congress, under oath, about sexual relations

    (2) President X extorted our ally fighting a war with Russia for a public announcement to smear his political rival

    (3) President X actively obstructed justice by refusing to provide any witnesses or documents to Congress (charged with oversight powers) for #2 and went on to publicly attack witnesses that DID come forward.

    Do you honestly think our Founders or most people in US would put (1) as more of a problem for our President than (2) and (3)? I am sorry if you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEconomist View Post
    Can you honestly say you're going to make America a better place by going after Donald Trump with procedural tricks? As far as I can tell, Democrats are throwing a hail marry, hoping they can get rid of him and face a less potent player comes 2020.
    I honestly do not know whether it would be harder for a Dem to beat Trump or some other Republican that may come in his place. But I think that is irrelevant here.

    I personally think Democrats should have had a lot more articles of impeachment against Trump, including a ton of violations of emolument clause (both foreign and domestic ones), campaign finance violations, obstruction of justice in Russia probe (Mueller had all the elements for it in at least 5 instances), and bribery (which Ukraine scandal qualifies for). In fact, I think the only reasons these are not included is because Dems were afraid of exactly the "procedural tricks" that would follow some of these and just making the case much longer and more "confusing" to people because it would get more drawn out.

    Trump is the most corrupt President we've had who does not even try to hide it; so NOT impeaching him would set a very bad precedent for the future IMO.

    Further, Trump and Republicans are actively not just inviting foreign interference in 2020 but also refuse to protect our voting infrastructure from such interference (Moscow Mitch tabled all the measures House attempted to pass). So another benefit of Impeachment might be a better chance to protect us against such interference in 2020.

  8. #158
    Educator

    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    1,053

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    The worse case scenario, for the Democrats, is that Hunter Biden will be required to testify during the Senate Impeachment trial. If you recall, Hunter Biden had a very high paying job on the Board of Directors of a Ukrainian energy company. He had no relevant experience in the field. This is well documented. Trump had a legitimate excuse to investigate, since he is the Chief law enforcement officer of the USA, and it is his duty to look into these matters and not look the other way. We were about to give Ukraine a lot of money in Aid, and if it was being skimmed, the America tax payer needs to be protected.

    The Democrats knew many of their own were vulnerable by this investigation, and decided to run a smoke screen scam to cover it up. This has been part of a consistent operating mode for the Democrats. To cover up their crimes, they project their own crimes onto others, and them blame them. For example, Biden is on tape doing a Quid Pro Quo, so the Democrat's first instinct was to accuse Trump of a Quid Pro Quo. The Dems are very predictable.

    The impeachment cover up was needed not just for Biden, but also for John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi, who also had sons running similar scams, for their families, due to their positions. This Trump-Ukraine investigation was the tip of the iceberg in terms of swamp corruption. It can even be traced to the Clintons. The Clintons were the pioneers and received donations from Ukrainian Oligarchs in the order of $30million from 2009-2013. The election of Trump make everyone vulnerable, with his drain the swamp mantra.

    My prediction is the Democrats will cave, before Hunter Biden is forced to testify. The fake news media will try to spin this as a conspiracy by the Republicans to cover up a crime (projection defense). This will work in the short term, since their base is not very bright, but they are very dutiful. However, this will come to a head, when Durham begins his indictments.

    The President wants to drain the swamp, and he can start the process during the impeachment hoax by exposing some of the crooks. However, there is another drain the swamp strategy in play connected to Barr and Durham. That goal is to round up the entire gang and not just a few members. Notice that Durham and Barr are very tight lipped about their evidence. They do not leak. This is unlike the Democrats who like to telecast and leak everything for media propaganda affect; scam tinsel. Durham and Barr are serious and know that if the swamp knows their strategy, they will try to set up interference, in advance. Trump's role is to keep the Democrats distracted by creating false positives, so they step into it, and walk the crap around the news cycle for all to smell.
    Last edited by wellwisher; 01-20-20 at 09:16 AM.

  9. #159
    Professor
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:03 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,441

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Jaypatriot, yes, the fed and state DAs will go after Trump, because he is a criminal.

    Jaypatriot,, the American people know that Trump negated the 2016 election with is cheating and that impeachment is a Constitutional procedure for Presidents like Trump.

    Jaypatriot, ‘whataboutism’ about Clinton is stupid arguing; it means nothing.

    Jaypatriot, you know the American voter will ratify the House’s impeachment even though the Senate will acquit him.

    Jaypatriot, you are grasping at, and failing with, Trumpian rguments.

    The Economist shows his lack of understanding in thinking that ‘high crimes and misdemeanours’ require charges under the criminal statutes.

    Letting the Bidens testify in exchange for Parnas, Bolton, and Pompeo will result in the Bidens clearing their name and the latter three sinking the USS Trump.
    Russian trolls and their supporters go on Ignore, automatically: no second chance.

  10. #160
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    23,360
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Abuse of power, obstruction of congress

    Quote Originally Posted by jaypatriot View Post
    What does the brilliant Pelosi mean when she says this impeachment process is not political? It is protecting the Constitution, she says. And our democracy. Don't you believe her?
    Anything the two major parties do is political. Usually very partisan in an attempt to obtain a political advantage. This impeachment is about as partisan a political battle as one can get. Roughly 90% of all Democrats want Trump removed, gone. 90% of all Republicans want him to stay. So not being a party animal, I sit back and watch the partisan's fight it out.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

Page 16 of 21 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •