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Key takeaways from the IG report on FISA

theLiquidGuy said:
Yeah, that's all fine and good but so what?

POLITCAL BIAS DID NOT FACTOR IN.


So stop whining. The FBI was fair with donald.
Some procedural details need to be ironed out. But the overall thrust of this report is clear. See above.
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LOL!!

You call perpetrating a fraud on the FISA court "Some procedural details need to be ironed out"???

But don't worry. Durham has a grand jury to deal with the criminals...no matter what their motivation.
 
mycroft said:
tell me...what did horowitz say about the political bias of clinesmith? You know...the guy who deliberately changed an email and caused the fbi to lie to the fisa court.

Doesn't matter. Durham disagrees with horowitz and durham has a grand jury behind him.
Click to expand...

political bias did not factor in.
 
Mycroft said:
LOL!!

You call perpetrating a fraud on the FISA court "Some procedural details need to be ironed out"???

But don't worry. Durham has a grand jury to deal with the criminals...no matter what their motivation.
Click to expand...

Sigmund Freud doesn't have a pot to piss in.
 
Mycroft said:
No. The investigation is not "vindicated". Horowitz doesn't know anything about the "EC" that the FBI used to start it. That's what Durham is looking at and that's why Durham disagrees with the conclusion of the IG.
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Here is the problem with that:


"Michael Horowitz, the Justice inspector general, consulted US intelligence agencies as well as John Durham, the prosecutor conducting a broad investigation into the intelligence used to start the Russia investigation, to ask whether they could provide any evidence to back up the spy claim.
Durham and the intelligence agencies responded that they couldn't provide any such evidence."

see cnn.


Also, the IG is the one who gets to critique US attorney's, not the other way around.
 
theLiquidGuy said:
Here is the problem with that:


"Michael Horowitz, the Justice inspector general, consulted US intelligence agencies as well as John Durham, the prosecutor conducting a broad investigation into the intelligence used to start the Russia investigation, to ask whether they could provide any evidence to back up the spy claim.
Durham and the intelligence agencies responded that they couldn't provide any such evidence."

see cnn.


Also, the IG is the one who gets to critique US attorney's, not the other way around.
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"consult" does not equal "investigate".
 
theLiquidGuy said:
I haven't heard that politico is unreliable. Maybe you have. What exactly has politico reported that was false?



But this is how republicans have treated all argument. Attack the source. Attack the process. Attack anything else. But dont address the facts. Or in this case, the news.
Discredit all non-conservative leaning media. Because they don't bury unflattering news about Trump. It's fake news only if its bad for Trump.
Click to expand...


He “heard” it from a man in his AM radio!
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
political bias did not factor in.
Click to expand...

LOL!!

Keep telling yourself that. Keep pretending not to know things, such as the issue of Clinesmith. It'll make you feel better, at least.

But if you are at all interested in reality, I suggest you ask pertinent questions and not hide your head in the sand.

Heck, here's more FISA abuse that is caused by direct political bias. Look into the case of Senate Security Director James Wolfe. That case turned into a nightmare of a mess because of political bias, and a cover up that continues to this day in the IG FISA abuse report.

Ask yourself why Horowitz would find it necessary...after all this time...to redact the exact dates of all four FISA warrant applications involving Carter Page. I mean, it's not like those dates involve top secret information or national security.

ig-review-2-fisa-dates-redacted.jpg

Keep in mind that we have yet to find out if Barr and Durham are willing to keep this cover up going...or if they will blow this wide open and put a bunch of US Senator's careers at risk. Horowitz wasn't willing to do that.
 
Mycroft said:
Tell me...what did Horowitz say about the political bias of Clinesmith? You know...the guy who deliberately changed an email and caused the FBI to lie to the FISA court.

Doesn't matter. Durham disagrees with Horowitz and Durham has a grand jury behind him.
Click to expand...

Read for yourself.

Face it, the right wing media narrative that you and the rest of your fellow Trumpsters swallowed hook, line, and sinker, turned out to be largely BS (yet again).

Now you’re reduced to parsing around the edges (yet again).

For two plus years, folks like you have ranted about the “fruit from a poisonous tree”, and claimed (falsely) that the FISA warrant was the source of the investigation.

This was the meme the White House instructed Devin Nunes to begin promoting that infamous night he ran to the White House to undermine his own committee, and suck up to Trump.

None of it was true. And most people could see how transparent both the lies and the motives of this campaign were.

But Trumpster cheered on cue, and recited the various components chapter and verse.

Never mind that there was almost no evidence to support any of this.
 
TomFitz said:
Read for yourself.

Face it, the right wing media narrative that you and the rest of your fellow Trumpsters swallowed hook, line, and sinker, turned out to be largely BS (yet again).

Now you’re reduced to parsing around the edges (yet again).

For two plus years, folks like you have ranted about the “fruit from a poisonous tree”, and claimed (falsely) that the FISA warrant was the source of the investigation.

This was the meme the White House instructed Devin Nunes to begin promoting that infamous night he ran to the White House to undermine his own committee, and suck up to Trump.

None of it was true. And most people could see how transparent both the lies and the motives of this campaign were.

But Trumpster cheered on cue, and recited the various components chapter and verse.

Never mind that there was almost no evidence to support any of this.
Click to expand...

LOL!!

It's no wonder you don't know what's going on. You are jumbling together a bunch of different, but related issues into a disordered mess.

For example, nobody has claimed that the Carter Page FISA warrant "was the source of the investigation". Heck, the dates alone make that contention nonsense. The investigation started in July 2016. The first Page FISA warrant application...the one that was denied (hell, you probably don't even know this one existed)...was in August 2016 and the first one that was granted was in October 2016.

No...the only thing that is not true is your understanding of pretty much ANYTHING related to this issue.

In any case, you don't know what Horowitz said about Clinesmith's political bias. That means your comments are irrelevant and useless as a response to my question.

You are dismissed. (see my sig)
 
trixare4kids said:
I wasn't arguing the above.

You might want to stop whining, yourself.
Tsk, tsk, your spiel is a smelly strawman argument.

Got anything else?
Click to expand...
I don't need anything else. I didn't strawman nothin'

I know exactly what you were arguing. You were arguing that there were some irregularities.

To which I basically replied that there is always room for improvement. However WHO CARES? You are trying to distract from the most important thing: BIAS DID NOT FACTOR IN. Trump has been calling it politically motivated all this time. Fox "News" and Sean Hannity have been claiming all this time that it was the deep state. You were all wrong and of course.


POLITICAL BIAS DID NOT FACTOR IN.
 
Outlook said:
Right
Let’s see what Durham has to say.
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Ooooooo, the guy who's been practicing his "Gravitas Face" in front of the cameras and cannot keep his yapper shut when attempting to be a professional, about ongoing criminal investigations?

Durham 1.jpg

I can do that face, too.

BoltMannix1.jpg
 
Outlook said:
Since the start of his investigation how many times has he been in front of the camera?
How many CNN or Fox interviews?
What leaks have you heard?
Click to expand...

What was the last conservative led scandal that went anywhere??

There have been 2 a month for the last decade..

Out of all the fast and furious, Clinton body bag, FBI set trump up, irs scandal, exc..

When was there ANY other outcome than some gop spokesman saying “their actions were troubling but don’t arise to anything criminal..”


Which isn’t even proof of anything troubling really.. troubling doesn’t even have a specific definition lol.

It boggles the mind the gop base would repeatedly fall for the same tactic..




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Outlook said:
Right
Let’s see what Durham has to say.
Click to expand...

Wanna bet it will be the same thing every other gop spokesman has said after every other conservative led investigation into “felonies committed by the Democrats!!”

“Their actions were troubling but there is no evidence of criminality”

Because criminality requires you prove it in court, troubling hypes up the sheeple for free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
theLiquidGuy said:
I haven't heard that politico is unreliable. Maybe you have. What exactly has politico reported that was false?



But this is how republicans have treated all argument. Attack the source. Attack the process. Attack anything else. But dont address the facts. Or in this case, the news.
Discredit all non-conservative leaning media. Because they don't bury unflattering news about Trump. It's fake news only if its bad for Trump.
Click to expand...

I think this is the first time I've seen you spew such stupid notions before. Seeing as I'm not a republican, and I actually still read politico.

But there is a direct difference between criticizing them, and claiming that they're outright lying.

But at least I'll have some fresh grapes to feed you when you do the same with FOX, or some other non "Orange man bad" media outlet.
 
theLiquidGuy said:
(Sorry about the title. The report was not just about FISA)


From Politico...



  • The FBI did not use the Steele dossier to open Russia probe
  • Lynch, Comey sat for IG interviews
  • No evidence political bias was a factor
  • Peter Strzok and Lisa Page were not decision-makers
  • Carter Page was the only Trump official under FISA surveillance
  • First Carter Page FISA contained ‘seven significant inaccuracies and omissions’
  • Steele dropped as FBI source after Mother Jones article
  • Steele had prior relationship with Ivanka Trump
  • Manafort was under investigation prior to Russia probe scrutiny

Inspector general’s report on Russia probe: Key takeaways - POLITICO
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I think that is exactly what Horowitz was trying to get people to believe. However, that take is not right. Those officials who lied to the FISA court to get warrants on the basis of the unverified dossier had better get lawyered up, they are going to need it.
 
marke said:
I think that is exactly what Horowitz was trying to get people to believe. However, that take is not right. Those officials who lied to the FISA court to get warrants on the basis of the unverified dossier had better get lawyered up, they are going to need it.
Click to expand...

The only ones who are saying people lied to the FISA court is you and other deep state conspiracists. Horowitz didn’t find that to be true. But i dont imagine that you will accept anything other than what you would like to believe.
Read my sig.
 
Oborosen said:
I think this is the first time I've seen you spew such stupid notions before. Seeing as I'm not a republican, and I actually still read politico.

But there is a direct difference between criticizing them, and claiming that they're outright lying.

But at least I'll have some fresh grapes to feed you when you do the same with FOX, or some other non "Orange man bad" media outlet.
Click to expand...

There is no more truth. Only sides.

Stupid notions? Are you telling me the conservatives have been arguing mostly on the facts during this inquiry? 95% of what they have done is criticize the process. And distract.

For three years donald has led the campaign to demonize any non conservative media. Do you deny that? Our leaders must not demonize the fourth estate the way this man has. “Enemy of the people”. Some would argue he has already caused the deaths of some journalists with his rhetoric. It is an attack. He doesn't critique things. He brands them. His vile and intolerant methods have rubbed off on his base. He is making it ok to be this way because he is the president after all. A role model for us all apparently.


Btw, maybe you think Fox is a balanced source of information? Just check their prime time lineup.
Watch ”The Five” a few times and then try to tell me that Juan Williams doesn't get shouted down/cut off every single day.

I’ll take a few grapes for the road.
 
theLiquidGuy said:
Correct. Your point?
Click to expand...

"Michael Horowitz, the Justice inspector general, consulted US intelligence agencies as well as John Durham..."

Consulting is talking to them...a cooperative action. Investigating is digging into their business...whether they like it or not.

Horowitz could only do the former. Durham has the power to do the latter.
 
theLiquidGuy said:
(Sorry about the title. The report was not just about FISA)


From Politico...



  • The FBI did not use the Steele dossier to open Russia probe
  • Lynch, Comey sat for IG interviews
  • No evidence political bias was a factor
  • Peter Strzok and Lisa Page were not decision-makers
  • Carter Page was the only Trump official under FISA surveillance
  • First Carter Page FISA contained ‘seven significant inaccuracies and omissions’
  • Steele dropped as FBI source after Mother Jones article
  • Steele had prior relationship with Ivanka Trump
  • Manafort was under investigation prior to Russia probe scrutiny

Inspector general’s report on Russia probe: Key takeaways - POLITICO
Click to expand...

Let's await the REAL stuff from Barr. He is conducting an investigation that will throw people in jail.

Patience, grasshopper.
 
theLiquidGuy said:
There is no more truth. Only sides.

Stupid notions? Are you telling me the conservatives have been arguing mostly on the facts during this inquiry? 95% of what they have done is criticize the process. And distract.

For three years donald has led the campaign to demonize any non conservative media. Do you deny that? Our leaders must not demonize the fourth estate the way this man has. “Enemy of the people”. Some would argue he has already caused the deaths of some journalists with his rhetoric. It is an attack. He doesn't critique things. He brands them. His vile and intolerant methods have rubbed off on his base. He is making it ok to be this way because he is the president after all. A role model for us all apparently.


Btw, maybe you think Fox is a balanced source of information? Just check their prime time lineup.
Watch ”The Five” a few times and then try to tell me that Juan Williams doesn't get shouted down/cut off every single day.

I’ll take a few grapes for the road.
Click to expand...

He gets shouted down because he is the token liberal and is an idiot.
 
theLiquidGuy said:
The only ones who are saying people lied to the FISA court is you and other deep state conspiracists. Horowitz didn’t find that to be true. But i dont imagine that you will accept anything other than what you would like to believe.
Read my sig.
Click to expand...

Horowitz did a bad job if he said the fake dossier was not used to obtain the FISA warrants. Barr and Durham said they did not agree with Horowitz on that.
 
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