IG Report on Russia probe is Out. Another Rorschach test?

Slyfox696 said:

...


I see now why you didn't want to cite Horowitz, since citing him proves me right and you wrong.

...

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You still trying to recover?
What do you think quotation marks signify?
It was either in his report or in his testimony.
"we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified." is still only a process error to you. But not to Horowitz. Amazing.
"I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence," . Apparently not for you.
"Nevertheless we found that investigators failed to meet their basic obligations of ensuring that the FISA applications were scrupulously accurate. We identified significant inaccuracies and omissions in each of the four applications, seven in the first and a total of 17 by the final renewal application,"
"For example, the 'Crossfire Hurricane' team obtained information from Steele’s primary sub-source in January 2017 that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the Steele — from the primary sub-sources reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on 2016 U.S. presidential election activities,"
"However, the FBI did not share this information with department lawyers and it was therefore omitted from the last two renewal applications."
“We are deeply concerned that so many basic and fundamental errors were made by three separate, hand-picked investigative teams; on one of the most sensitive FBI investigations; after the matter had been briefed to the highest levels within the FBI; even though the information sought through the use of FISA authority related so closely to an ongoing presidential campaign; and even though those involved with the investigation knew that their actions were likely to be subjected to close scrutiny,”
"FBI leadership supported relying on Steele's reporting to seek a FISA order targeting Page after being advised of, and giving consideration to, concerns expressed by a Department attorney that Steele may have been hired by someone associated with a rival candidate or campaign,"

You'd know if you saw the testimony Q & A how ridiculous and flailing you sound to insist otherwise.
You should quit while you're only severely behind. Getting ahead is no longer possible.

Your DP pigheadedness about these things should surprise no one. It certainly doesn't surprise me.
Let's take a trip down memory lane that's relevant to the current FISA discussion.

Slyfox696 said:

Uhh, those are not competing narratives. The dossier is clearly showing to not be bogus, but the investigation had already been opened by the time the FBI received it.
....

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Slyfox696 said:

I'm not surprised you'd rather remain ignorant to facts.
However, you cannot deny I was correct. What I said in my post was accurate, regardless of whether or not you read the transcript. Thank you for your acquiescence. Have a great day.

Click to expand...

Slyfox696 said:

Weak.
I was right. Admit it. The facts support my position and you cannot deny it.

Click to expand...

Slyfox696 said:

I did answer your question. You chose not to read the source. That's your problem, not mine.
I was right, you need to admit it. Of course, I suspect you won't, because shills never debate honestly.

Click to expand...

Steele Dossier Right Again

bubbabgone said:

You still trying to recover?

Click to expand...

It's not lost on me you deleted most of my post which pointed out how I was right and you were wrong based on what YOU posted from Horowitz.

You just couldn't do the honest thing and admit you were wrong, could you?

"we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified." is still only a process error to you. But not to Horowitz. Amazing.

Click to expand...

How come you didn't include the rest of the quote? Are you just bound and determined to not post anything honestly?

While we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted OI in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures, we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified. In most instances, the agent s and supervisors told us that they either did not know or recall why the information was not shared with OI, that the failure to do so may have been an oversight, t hat they did not recognize at t he time the relevance of t he information to t he FISA application, or that they did not believe the missing information to be significant.

In that full paragraph, all but half of a sentence kills every argument you are making...so of course the half of a sentence is dishonestly cherry-picked, absent context, to make the dishonest point.

*A bunch of quotes*

Click to expand...

None of that changes what Horowitz said about "intentional misconduct" and I agreed from the very beginning it was concerning. Why are you wasting everyone's time?

Let's take a trip down memory lane that's relevant to the current FISA discussion.

Click to expand...

Yeah, what about it? I was and still am right. Nothing I said there was untrue, especially since Carter Page "has himself corroborated key aspects of Orbis's reporting". :shrug:

Source: Julia Macfarlane on Twitter: "Chris Steele’s attorneys have just released a lengthy statement responding to the IG report and the outstanding points of dispute:… https://t.co/ISgbjAjeyJ"




It never ceases to amaze me how Trump defenders are so willing to just lie. They don't even try to hide it, they just blatantly lie.

Mycroft said:

Why on earth would you think Durham is not involved in this?

Click to expand...

1-Common sense
2-DoJ statements

Mycroft said:

Horowitz talked to Durham. Durham talked to Horowitz. That is being involved.

btw, the DOJ IG works for the DOJ AG...not the other way around. You can be sure that Barr will monitor an IG investigation.

Click to expand...

1-Conversations are not being involved (you're gonna need a source to indicate they even had discussions). You show little to no understanding of what an Inspector General is. Yes the IG is a member of the DoJ. Yes, Barr is the head of the DoJ. The IG is an independent position created to 'audit' government actions. As a matter of law the AG would not monitor the IG investigation.

theLiquidGuy said:

That doesn't seem right. Are you sure?


I think that the AG is neither subordinate nor superior. I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

Your understanding is way closer to the actual situation.

Slyfox696 said:

It's not lost on me you deleted most of my post which pointed out how I was right and you were wrong based on what YOU posted from Horowitz.

You just couldn't do the honest thing and admit you were wrong, could you?

How come you didn't include the rest of the quote? Are you just bound and determined to not post anything honest?

While we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted OI in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures, we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified. In most instances, the agent s and supervisors told us that they either did not know or recall why the information was not shared with OI, that the failure to do so may have been an oversight, t hat they did not recognize at t he time the relevance of t he information to t he FISA application, or that they did not believe the missing information to be significant.

In that full paragraph, all but half of a sentence kills every argument you are making...so of course the half of a sentence is dishonestly cherry-picked, absent context, to make the dishonest point.

Yeah, what about it? Nothing I said there was untrue, especially since Carter Page "has himself corroborated key aspects of Orbis's reporting". :shrug:

Source: Julia Macfarlane on Twitter: "Chris Steele’s attorneys have just released a lengthy statement responding to the IG report and the outstanding points of dispute:… https://t.co/ISgbjAjeyJ"


It never ceases to amaze me how Trump defenders are so willing to just lie. They don't even try to hide it, they just blatantly lie.

Click to expand...

Again.
It was either in his report or in his testimony.
"we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified." is still only a process error to you. But not to Horowitz. Amazing.
"I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence," . Apparently not for you.
"Nevertheless we found that investigators failed to meet their basic obligations of ensuring that the FISA applications were scrupulously accurate. We identified significant inaccuracies and omissions in each of the four applications, seven in the first and a total of 17 by the final renewal application,"
"For example, the 'Crossfire Hurricane' team obtained information from Steele’s primary sub-source in January 2017 that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the Steele — from the primary sub-sources reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on 2016 U.S. presidential election activities,"
"However, the FBI did not share this information with department lawyers and it was therefore omitted from the last two renewal applications."
“We are deeply concerned that so many basic and fundamental errors were made by three separate, hand-picked investigative teams; on one of the most sensitive FBI investigations; after the matter had been briefed to the highest levels within the FBI; even though the information sought through the use of FISA authority related so closely to an ongoing presidential campaign; and even though those involved with the investigation knew that their actions were likely to be subjected to close scrutiny,”
"FBI leadership supported relying on Steele's reporting to seek a FISA order targeting Page after being advised of, and giving consideration to, concerns expressed by a Department attorney that Steele may have been hired by someone associated with a rival candidate or campaign,"

AND OMIGOD !!!!! The dossier hasn't been shown to be bogus???? It's no longer funny. You have a serious problem.

bubbabgone said:

Again.

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Yes, again:

"we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted OI in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures"


You do know what the quotes mean, correct?

It was either in his report or in his testimony.
"we also did not receive satisfactory explanations for the errors or problems we identified." is still only a process error to you. But not to Horowitz. Amazing.
"I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence," . Apparently not for you.
"Nevertheless we found that investigators failed to meet their basic obligations of ensuring that the FISA applications were scrupulously accurate. We identified significant inaccuracies and omissions in each of the four applications, seven in the first and a total of 17 by the final renewal application,"
"For example, the 'Crossfire Hurricane' team obtained information from Steele’s primary sub-source in January 2017 that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the Steele — from the primary sub-sources reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on 2016 U.S. presidential election activities,"
"However, the FBI did not share this information with department lawyers and it was therefore omitted from the last two renewal applications."
“We are deeply concerned that so many basic and fundamental errors were made by three separate, hand-picked investigative teams; on one of the most sensitive FBI investigations; after the matter had been briefed to the highest levels within the FBI; even though the information sought through the use of FISA authority related so closely to an ongoing presidential campaign; and even though those involved with the investigation knew that their actions were likely to be subjected to close scrutiny,”
"FBI leadership supported relying on Steele's reporting to seek a FISA order targeting Page after being advised of, and giving consideration to, concerns expressed by a Department attorney that Steele may have been hired by someone associated with a rival candidate or campaign,"

Click to expand...

As I said last time: None of that changes what Horowitz said about "intentional misconduct" and I agreed from the very beginning it was concerning. Why are you wasting everyone's time?

AND OMIGOD !!!!! The dossier hasn't been shown to be bogus????

Click to expand...

No. Not to anyone who has actually read it and not let conservative news lie to them about it. A large part of it has been corroborated and very little, if any, proven false. You should try reading it.

It's no longer funny. You have a serious problem.

Click to expand...

Your ignorance is not my problem. First, understand what the Steele dossier is. Then read the Steele dossier. Then get back to me.

You'll be amazed how many fewer stupid things you'll say when you bother to inform yourself.

Slyfox696 said:

Yes, again:

"we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted OI in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures"


You do know what the quotes mean, correct?


As I said last time: None of that changes what Horowitz said about "intentional misconduct" and I agreed from the very beginning it was concerning. Why are you wasting everyone's time?


No. Not to anyone who has actually read it and not let conservative news lie to them about it. You should try reading it.

Your ignorance is not my problem. First, understand what the Steele dossier is. Then read the Steele dossier. Then get back to me.

You'll be amazed how many fewer stupid things you'll say when you bother to inform yourself.

Click to expand...

"I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence,"

"For example, the 'Crossfire Hurricane' team obtained information from Steele’s primary sub-source in January 2017 that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the Steele — from the primary sub-sources reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on 2016 U.S. presidential election activities,"

bubbabgone said:

"I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence,"

Click to expand...

"we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted OI in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures"

Nothing you are quoting changes what I am quoting. Your conspiracy theory was wrong, I was right, admit it.

"For example, the 'Crossfire Hurricane' team obtained information from Steele’s primary sub-source in January 2017 that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the Steele — from the primary sub-sources reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on 2016 U.S. presidential election activities,"

Click to expand...

"In early July 2016, Page traveled to Russia for the NES events. On July 5, 2016, Denis Klimentov, copying his brother, Dmitri Klimentov, emailed Maria Zakharova, the Director of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ Information and Press Department, about Page’s visit and his connection to the Trump Campaign. Denis Klimentov said in the email that he wanted to draw the Russian government’s attention to Page’s visit in Moscow...

After Page delivered his commencement address, Russian Deputy Prime Minister and NES board member Arkady Dvorkovich spoke at the ceremony and stated that the sanctions the United States had imposed on Russia had hurt the NES. Page and Dvorkovich shook hands at the commencement ceremony,future....

Page believed he and Baranov discussed Rosneft president Igor Sechin, and he thought Baranov might have mentioned the possibility of a sale of a stake in Rosneft in passing.574Page recalled mentioning his involvement in the Trump Campaign with Baranov, although he did not remember details of the conversation.575 Page also met with individuals from Tatneft, a Russian energy company, to discuss possible business deals, including having Page work as a consultant. On July 8, 2016, while he was in Moscow, Page emailed several Campaign officials and stated he would send “a readout soon regarding some incredible insights and outreach I’ve received from a few Russian legislators and senior members of the Presidential Administration here.” On July 9, 2016, Page emailed Clovis, writing in pertinent part: Russian Deputy Prime minister and NES board member Arkady Dvorkovich also spoke before the event. In a private conversation, Dvorkovich expressed strong support for Mr. Trump and a desire to work together toward devising better solutions in response to the vast range of current international problems. Based on feedback from a diverse array of other sources close to the Presidential Administration, it was readily apparent that this sentiment is widely held at all levels of government"

Source: Mueller Report


But since you obviously haven't read the Steele Dossier or the Mueller Report, I'm sure this is all new to you and you probably don't even understand why I posted it.

bubbabgone said:

"I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence,"

"For example, the 'Crossfire Hurricane' team obtained information from Steele’s primary sub-source in January 2017 that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the Steele — from the primary sub-sources reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on 2016 U.S. presidential election activities,"

Click to expand...

THEN WHY ISNT TRUMP PROSECUTING THEM?!?!


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Slyfox696 said:

"we did not find documentary or testimonial evidence of intentional misconduct on the part of the case agents who assisted OI in preparing the applications, or the agents and supervisors who performed the Woods Procedures"

Nothing you are quoting changes what I am quoting. Your conspiracy theory was wrong, I was right, admit it.



"In early July 2016, Page traveled to Russia for the NES events. On July 5, 2016, Denis Klimentov, copying his brother, Dmitri Klimentov, emailed Maria Zakharova, the Director of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ Information and Press Department, about Page’s visit and his connection to the Trump Campaign. Denis Klimentov said in the email that he wanted to draw the Russian government’s attention to Page’s visit in Moscow...

After Page delivered his commencement address, Russian Deputy Prime Minister and NES board member Arkady Dvorkovich spoke at the ceremony and stated that the sanctions the United States had imposed on Russia had hurt the NES. Page and Dvorkovich shook hands at the commencement ceremony,future....

Page believed he and Baranov discussed Rosneft president Igor Sechin, and he thought Baranov might have mentioned the possibility of a sale of a stake in Rosneft in passing.574Page recalled mentioning his involvement in the Trump Campaign with Baranov, although he did not remember details of the conversation.575 Page also met with individuals from Tatneft, a Russian energy company, to discuss possible business deals, including having Page work as a consultant. On July 8, 2016, while he was in Moscow, Page emailed several Campaign officials and stated he would send “a readout soon regarding some incredible insights and outreach I’ve received from a few Russian legislators and senior members of the Presidential Administration here.” On July 9, 2016, Page emailed Clovis, writing in pertinent part: Russian Deputy Prime minister and NES board member Arkady Dvorkovich also spoke before the event. In a private conversation, Dvorkovich expressed strong support for Mr. Trump and a desire to work together toward devising better solutions in response to the vast range of current international problems. Based on feedback from a diverse array of other sources close to the Presidential Administration, it was readily apparent that this sentiment is widely held at all levels of government"

Source: Mueller Report


But since you obviously haven't read the Steele Dossier or the Mueller Report, I'm sure this is all new to you and you probably don't even understand why I posted it.

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Sure I do.
You posted about Page visiting Russia for a speech, which he never denied, after getting permission from the campaign, because after failing at everything else you touched you needed to insist the Steele dossier was accurate even though ...
the FBI “omitted the fact that Steele’s Primary Subsource, who the FBI found credible, had made statements in January 2017 raising significant questions about the reliability of allegations included in the FISA applications, including, for example, that he/she did not recall any discussion with Person 1 concerning Wikileaks and there was ‘nothing bad’ about the communications between the Kremlin and the Trump team, and that he/she did not report to Steele in July 2016 that Page had met with Sechin.”
and
“We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order,” even though it was a standard talking point then that the dossier played a minor role. Is that what you thought?
And the Horowitz testimony Q&A made things even clearer.
The Steel dossier has been exposed as garbage.
Yeah. So you keep up the good work trying to restore your shattered reputation.

How about if we agree on this?
I never disagreed what Horowitz said about no testimonial or documentary evidence of bias when opening the investigation. Never. I could find the comments if I had to.
But I disagree that "I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence," means that he's suggesting it was due to merely process errors, which is what you apparently think he's suggesting by that statement.

ArtemisBarca said:

THEN WHY ISNT TRUMP PROSECUTING THEM?!?!


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Click to expand...

Maybe the DOJ will.
Horowitz already sent 1 referral and he said he left the decisions for any investigations of the teams up to the DOJ.

Be patient.

ArtemisBarca said:

FISA report: DOJ watchdog releases findings on Russia probe surveillance | Fox News



From the horses mouth..

“FISA report: DOJ watchdog releases findings on Russia probe surveillance


The report concluded that investigators found no intentional misconduct or political bias surrounding efforts to seek a highly controversial Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant to monitor former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page in the early months of the Russia investigation -- but also faulted the FBI over numerous "omissions" and "inaccuracies" in the application process”



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Click to expand...

Here are some additional conclusions from the IG report.

The FBI relied almost exclusively on the dossier to obtain Page's FISA warrant.

The FBI never corroborated the dossier and knew some of the allegations we're false, but submitted it to FISC anyway.

The FBI knew all along the dossier was funded by the Clinton campaign.

The FBI didn't inform FISC of Steele's contacts with the media until a year after the last FISA application was filed

The FBI altered documents and then submitted them to FISC in order to obtain the FISA warrant.

The FBI first attempt to obtain a warrant on Page was in August, but their FISA application was rejected. They received the dossier on September 19, and re-submitted the FISA application with a reference to Michael Issikoff's Yahoo article.

That Yahoo article wasn't published until September 23

The FBI used a defensive briefing to gain intelligence on Flynn.

The FBI withheld exculpatory information from FISC

The FBI never informed the Trump campaign of the investigation or alleged attempts by Russians.

The FBI knowingly relied on a Democrat funded and uncorroborated dossier to obtain FISA warrants to spy on the opposition campaign and candidate and even leaked information to the media.

This is an unprecedented abuse of power and anyone who claims the IG report exonerated the FBI hasn't read it.

And if you think the IG report was damning wait until Durham releases his report.

Slyfox696 said:

That doesn't even make sense. I'm talking about the IG report.

Are you just randomly saying things now that you don't even care do not make sense?

That's exactly what he found. His overall conclusions is that the FBI was right to seek a warrant and they were right to get it, but the information they presented to get it did not meet the standards it should have (for various reasons, usually dealing with not fully informing the "gatekeepers" of all the facts).

That's exactly what Horowitz found. I know Trump defenders hate facts and hate reading even more, but you really should try it for yourself sometime.
:lamo

If you think the IG report found "FISA abuse", then you really need to turn off Republican media and read it for yourself. The IG found absolutely no such thing. Here's what the IG found:


https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6571534-OIG-Russia-Investigation-Report

The important part is in bold. That's not a finding of abuse, it's the exact opposite. But that is not an abuse of the process, that is just pretty standard way for law enforcement to act.

Is it concerning? Absolutely yes. I do not think you'll find anyone who says otherwise. But was it an abuse? No, that's just laughable propaganda you're pushing.

I haven't denied anything. :shrug:

Seriously, are you so scared of facts you just make up your own narratives now? I specifically said Durham hasn't presented a single piece of evidence.

I'm happy to know. You, on the other hand, are the one who is denying the information which has been presented to you because you'd much rather believe a debunked conspiracy theory based on the word of an attorney who is breaking protocol to cast doubt on the facts presented, while providing not a single fact himself.

That is what partisan hacks do.
This is 100% accurate.

Click to expand...

No FISA abuse ?

FBI lawyer under criminal investigation altered document to say Carter Page 'was not a source' for another agency
FBI lawyer under criminal investigation altered document to say Carter Page 'was not a source' for another agency

The FBI omitted exculpatory information from their FISA application, exclusively relied on a Democrat funded and uncorroborated dossier


As for no bias ? From the hearing....

Rep Mike Lee isn’t the lack of evidence on bias, evidence that we really should take as bias? But it’s … in any event, it’s certainly not itself indicative that no bias occurred, isn’t that correct?”

IG Horrowitz to the opening [of the probe], which is in a different place than the FISA issues that you have identified and I talked about earlier, I think it is two different situations.

On the FISA side, we found, as you noted, a lack of documentary and testimonial evidence about intentionality, but we noted the lack of satisfactory explanations, and in fact, leave open the possibility, for the reasons you indicated, it is unclear what the motivations were.

On the one hand, gross incompetence, negligence; on the other hand intentionality, and we’re in between—we weren’t in a position with the evidence we had, to make that conclusion, but we are not ruling it out,”

bubbabgone said:

Sure I do.
You posted about Page visiting Russia for a speech

Click to expand...

And his activities there, including his telling the Trump campaign about it. Which corroborate Steele's reporting.

which he never denied, after getting permission from the campaign, because after failing at everything else you touched you needed to insist the Steele dossier was accurate

Click to expand...

So...you admit Page did what Steele said he did, but now you're saying Steele was wrong.

Typical Trump defender logic.

Numerous pieces of information in the Steele dossier has been corroborated. You claiming otherwise shows you either don't know what you are talking about or are lying. Which is it?

even though ...
the FBI “omitted the fact that Steele’s Primary Subsource, who the FBI found credible, had made statements in January 2017 raising significant questions about the reliability of allegations included in the FISA applications, including, for example, that he/she did not recall any discussion with Person 1 concerning Wikileaks and there was ‘nothing bad’ about the communications between the Kremlin and the Trump team, and that he/she did not report to Steele in July 2016 that Page had met with Sechin.”

Click to expand...

Page has admitted it. :shrug:

The Steel dossier has been exposed as garbage.

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Again, you make it incredibly clear you have not read it. Numerous pieces of the Steele dossier has been corroborated. Your ignorance does not change facts.

Trump defenders are the worst liars.

Yeah. So you keep up the good work trying to restore your shattered reputation.

Click to expand...

Says the person who is literally posting lies about things which have been directly cited to him. :roll:

Trump defenders are the worst liars.

How about if we agree on this?

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Sure. How about we agree I was right that the IG did not find evidence that the investigation was opened for biased reasons, that there is no evidence the FISA process was abused (as you claimed), and that your conspiracy theories were debunked by the IG report.

Do we agree?

I never disagreed what Horowitz said about no testimonial or documentary evidence of bias when opening the investigation. Never.

Click to expand...

:lamo

You just posted things where you pretended it didn't exist. For example, when you said the FBI committed "abuse" of the FISA process and was dishonest by "deceiving".

Why do Trump defenders lie all the time?

But I disagree that "I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence," means that he's suggesting it was due to merely process errors, which is what you apparently think he's suggesting by that statement.

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I think he means this, as he stated in his testimony to Whitehouse:

Sen. Whitehouse: (32:38)
But you make no finding that this was attributable to a deep state conspiracy or a political conspiracy or any such type of motivation?
M. Horowitz: (32:49)
We make no finding. We explain in there that we did not have documentary or testimonial evidence that it was intentional. We also point out the lack of satisfactory explanations, and from there I can’t draw any further conclusions.


As such...process errors which we ALL agree is concerning. So, again, Horowitz found NO evidence conspiracy or bias (and outlined the reasons he was given for those "17 events"), which means your conspiracy theory is false. As I've told you from the beginning.


Are you done proving me right and you wrong yet?

bubbabgone said:

Who said?

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I did lol.. for the same reason I can safely predict the sun will rise tomorrow.... because the same thing happens every morning..

Because of the exact same reason Hillary was never prosecuted.. Comey was never prosecuted.. Obama , page and Strozk , McCabe, Biden.. I would need a spreadsheet to list every one trump has accused of criminality without even attempting to prosecute them..

There has not been one gop hyped scandal in the last 20 years where ANYONE has been prosecuted.

Lol

I have watched the gop hype up the yokels promising “they are going down now!!” Dozens of times only to see the exact same response as the iG report.

Some gop spokesman will use vague language like troubling, or concerning..but it did not rise to the level of criminality..

THEN THE GOP SHILLS STILL PRETEND IT MAKES SENSE!!!




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bubbabgone said:

"I think it’s fair for people to … look at all these 17 events and wonder how it could be pure incompetence,"

"For example, the 'Crossfire Hurricane' team obtained information from Steele’s primary sub-source in January 2017 that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the Steele — from the primary sub-sources reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on 2016 U.S. presidential election activities,"

Click to expand...

The fbi did not “entirely rely on the Steele dossier”... that is a lie for sure..

A) the FBI specifically said it was not the only thing they used..

B) as president trump can declassify ANYTHING.. so he could have proved they only used the Steele dossier the next day by declassifying the fisa..

But he didn’t do that..

Why..because it doesn’t say what trump is pretending it does..

C) I have ONLY seen trump shills claim anything the Steele dossier has been debunked.. and then they never point to a specific part that it got wrong..

The pain that trump payed Russian hookers to pee on a bed Obama slept in is crazy, but not too crazy...

What I mean by that is , someone trying to make trump look bad could have claimed trump had them pee on him as part of some fetish..

In fact I would say that “ trump likes to get peed on “ is a far easier lie to cook up if someone is trying to make trump look bad..

Saying trump paid hookers to pee on a bed , isn’t even make trump super nasty ..


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Slyfox696 said:

And his activities there, including his telling the Trump campaign about it. Which corroborate Steele's reporting.

So...you admit Page did what Steele said he did, but now you're saying Steele was wrong.

Typical Trump defender logic.

Numerous pieces of information in the Steele dossier has been corroborated. You claiming otherwise shows you either don't know what you are talking about or are lying. Which is it?

Page has admitted it. :shrug:

Again, you make it incredibly clear you have not read it. Numerous pieces of the Steele dossier has been corroborated. Your ignorance does not change facts.

Trump defenders are the worst liars.

Says the person who is literally posting lies about things which have been directly cited to him. :roll:

Trump defenders are the worst liars.

Sure. How about we agree I was right that the IG did not find evidence that the investigation was opened for biased reasons, that there is no evidence the FISA process was abused (as you claimed), and that your conspiracy theories were debunked by the IG report.

Do we agree?

:lamo

You just posted things where you pretended it didn't exist. For example, when you said the FBI committed "abuse" of the FISA process and was dishonest by "deceiving".

Why do Trump defenders lie all the time?


I think he means this, as he stated in his testimony to Whitehouse:

Sen. Whitehouse: (32:38)
But you make no finding that this was attributable to a deep state conspiracy or a political conspiracy or any such type of motivation?
M. Horowitz: (32:49)
We make no finding. We explain in there that we did not have documentary or testimonial evidence that it was intentional. We also point out the lack of satisfactory explanations, and from there I can’t draw any further conclusions.


As such...process errors which we ALL agree is concerning. So, again, Horowitz found NO evidence conspiracy or bias (and outlined the reasons he was given for those "17 events"), which means your conspiracy theory is false. As I've told you from the beginning.


Are you done proving me right and you wrong yet?

Click to expand...

Lol !

Submitting altered documents to FISC isn't a process error. It's a crime. Submitting a list of uncorroborated allegations isn't a process error either and neither is ommiting exculpatory information from a FISA application.

Also, leaking information to the media isn't a process error

Fenton said:

Here are some additional conclusions from the IG report.

The FBI relied almost exclusively on the dossier to obtain Page's FISA warrant.

The FBI never corroborated the dossier and knew some of the allegations we're false, but submitted it to FISC anyway.

The FBI knew all along the dossier was funded by the Clinton campaign.

The FBI didn't inform FISC of Steele's contacts with the media until a year after the last FISA application was filed

The FBI altered documents and then submitted them to FISC in order to obtain the FISA warrant.

The FBI first attempt to obtain a warrant on Page was in August, but their FISA application was rejected. They received the dossier on September 19, and re-submitted the FISA application with a reference to Michael Issikoff's Yahoo article.

That Yahoo article wasn't published until September 23

The FBI used a defensive briefing to gain intelligence on Flynn.

The FBI withheld exculpatory information from FISC

The FBI never informed the Trump campaign of the investigation or alleged attempts by Russians.

The FBI knowingly relied on a Democrat funded and uncorroborated dossier to obtain FISA warrants to spy on the opposition campaign and candidate and even leaked information to the media.

This is an unprecedented abuse of power and anyone who claims the IG report exonerated the FBI hasn't read it.

And if you think the IG report was damning wait until Durham releases his report.

Click to expand...

I answered a bunch of your questions and then realized none of it really matters..

If trump had evidence of crimes committed against him, he would be prosecuting people.. not making vague claims of malfeasance with zero follow up..

A) make no mistake it is a trump appointee making the claims..

B) “relied almost exclusively” lol.. isn’t almost and exclusively an oxymoron?!?!

so If did not only rely on the Steele dossier..

Also trump has been making that claim forever and could declassify the fisa to prove his case..

Instead he is saying “trust me” and using vague verbiage that could mean 1,000 different things..

C) I have seen nothing in the Steel’s dossier debunked.. I have seen the Sean hannity of the world claim it is “the debunked Steele dossier”, but they never point to a specific claim or provide proof that part is wrong...

Take the “trump paid Russian hookers to pee on a bed Obama slept in” claim..

Wouldn’t it be worse for trump to claim he has a pee fetish instead of just claiming he paid them to pee on an empty bed???

That is a way easier lie to cook up..


D) I would bet dollars to donuts not telling the fisa that Steele met with the media and/or his sources is almost never included in the fisa request..

When the police ask for a warrant, they do not have to put their sources life history.. they just say “we have a source claiming X”..

E) the dossier was first funded by a conservative super pac, then Steele sold the info the the Hillary camp once trump won the nomination..



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Fenton said:

Lol !

Submitting altered documents to FISC isn't a process error. It's a crime. Submitting a list of uncorroborated allegations isn't a process error either and neither is ommiting exculpatory information from a FISA application.

Also, leaking information to the media isn't a process error

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Awesome..


Then why isn’t anyone being prosecuted???

Why are they just making vague claims like “omitted”, “altered” and such.. that literally could mean anything???


Do you ever get tired of them selling you the dream of the Democrats going down, only to have absolutely nothing of the sort happen..


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Just a reminder that Trump, the supposed anti-corruption crusader, who wouldn't even allow legally allocated aid to flow to Ukraine until he could "verify that Zelensky was the real deal," had no qualms whatsoever about meeting in secret with Putin without any similar demands.

Trump is adopting the corruption that Ukraine is rejecting. Wrap your head around that one.

ArtemisBarca said:

Awesome..


Then why isn’t anyone being prosecuted???

Why are they just making vague claims like “omitted”, “altered” and such.. that literally could mean anything???


Do you ever get tired of them selling you the dream of the Democrats going down, only to have absolutely nothing of the sort happen..


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The lack of indictments isn't something Democrats and they're follower's should be bragging about.

You think Americans are sympathetic to a powerful Federal law enforcement agency abusing their power ?

You want to piss off a majority of Americans ? Hold Politician's and Govt officials to a different legal standard than everyone else. Prove to them that our Govt is lawless and corrupt and unaccountable.

We don't know who will be indicted yet. That's up to Durham, but the lack of indictments isn't going to work in the Democrats favor.

Slyfox696 said:

And his activities there, including his telling the Trump campaign about it. Which corroborate Steele's reporting.

So...you admit Page did what Steele said he did, but now you're saying Steele was wrong.

Typical Trump defender logic.

Numerous pieces of information in the Steele dossier has been corroborated. You claiming otherwise shows you either don't know what you are talking about or are lying. Which is it?

Page has admitted it. :shrug:

Again, you make it incredibly clear you have not read it. Numerous pieces of the Steele dossier has been corroborated. Your ignorance does not change facts.

Trump defenders are the worst liars.

Says the person who is literally posting lies about things which have been directly cited to him. :roll:

Trump defenders are the worst liars.

Sure. How about we agree I was right that the IG did not find evidence that the investigation was opened for biased reasons, that there is no evidence the FISA process was abused (as you claimed), and that your conspiracy theories were debunked by the IG report.

Do we agree?

:lamo

You just posted things where you pretended it didn't exist. For example, when you said the FBI committed "abuse" of the FISA process and was dishonest by "deceiving".

Why do Trump defenders lie all the time?


I think he means this, as he stated in his testimony to Whitehouse:

Sen. Whitehouse: (32:38)
But you make no finding that this was attributable to a deep state conspiracy or a political conspiracy or any such type of motivation?
M. Horowitz: (32:49)
We make no finding. We explain in there that we did not have documentary or testimonial evidence that it was intentional. We also point out the lack of satisfactory explanations, and from there I can’t draw any further conclusions.


As such...process errors which we ALL agree is concerning. So, again, Horowitz found NO evidence conspiracy or bias (and outlined the reasons he was given for those "17 events"), which means your conspiracy theory is false. As I've told you from the beginning.


Are you done proving me right and you wrong yet?

Click to expand...

Time and again I gave you a chance to recover some of your dignity but you chose to keep defending your mistakes by insisting you've always been right despite being shown otherwise.
Insisting the dossier as used in the FISA applications was correct was the sign you were over the edge.
That's what I meant by"your problem".
Oh well I guess that's the way it has to be.

ArtemisBarca said:

The fbi did not “entirely rely on the Steele dossier”... that is a lie for sure..

A) the FBI specifically said it was not the only thing they used..

B) as president trump can declassify ANYTHING.. so he could have proved they only used the Steele dossier the next day by declassifying the fisa..

But he didn’t do that..

Why..because it doesn’t say what trump is pretending it does..

C) I have ONLY seen trump shills claim anything the Steele dossier has been debunked.. and then they never point to a specific part that it got wrong..

The pain that trump payed Russian hookers to pee on a bed Obama slept in is crazy, but not too crazy...

What I mean by that is , someone trying to make trump look bad could have claimed trump had them pee on him as part of some fetish..

In fact I would say that “ trump likes to get peed on “ is a far easier lie to cook up if someone is trying to make trump look bad..

Saying trump paid hookers to pee on a bed , isn’t even make trump super nasty ..


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Click to expand...

You're not supposed to call Horowitz a liar or a Trump shill.

ArtemisBarca said:

I did lol.. for the same reason I can safely predict the sun will rise tomorrow.... because the same thing happens every morning..

Because of the exact same reason Hillary was never prosecuted.. Comey was never prosecuted.. Obama , page and Strozk , McCabe, Biden.. I would need a spreadsheet to list every one trump has accused of criminality without even attempting to prosecute them..

There has not been one gop hyped scandal in the last 20 years where ANYONE has been prosecuted.

Lol

I have watched the gop hype up the yokels promising “they are going down now!!” Dozens of times only to see the exact same response as the iG report.

Some gop spokesman will use vague language like troubling, or concerning..but it did not rise to the level of criminality..

THEN THE GOP SHILLS STILL PRETEND IT MAKES SENSE!!!




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First, I've alerted others here that the overuse of "lo"l has the opposite effect that they (and you?) think it does.

What say we wait until the investigations are over before concluding no one is going to be held responsible?