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The families of those Mormons who were killed are leaving Mexico for the same reason illegals do

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Jason Warfield

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After reading three different articles, the same message comes up over and over: many Mormons are fleeing Mexico for a better life in the US to escape the violence and fear they and their families will be the next set of victims.

So what makes these Mormons so special as opposed to the illegals trying to get here FOR THE SAME EXACT REASON?

Simple, many of these Mormons have dual citizenship with the US.

This branch of Mormons are a collection of those who escaped religious persecution at the hands of the US government in the late 1800's and/or broke with their mainstream church when they outlawed polygamy. When they could, quite a few got dual citizenship, which has enabled them to cross back and forth the border for decades.

So, my question is, why is the desire to leave due to violence for the Mormons a more acceptable concern, but because so many are seeking asylum...they are the animals, the undeserving for wanting to leave for the same reasons? Just because a slip of paper says they are citizens of the US so that makes it okay and to hell with the rest?

These Mormons are also citizens of Mexico. Why not insist that they stay in Mexico like the others and help to make it better? Why are we turning our heads away from the very real "problem" of chain migration as not all of their relatives will have dual citizenship...something Trump has said that he is against? If those Mormons without dual citizenship but are related to those that do illegally cross the border, will they get special treatment, or have their kids ripped from them and placed into cages as well?
 
Jason Warfield said:
So what makes these Mormons so special as opposed to the illegals trying to get here FOR THE SAME EXACT REASON?

Simple, many of these Mormons have dual citizenship with the US.
Click to expand...

Naah there might be one other thing that really seals the deal. Can't quite put my finger on it...
 
Well, more kids in cages rhetoric didn't help much last time. It really isn't going to do much this time round either.
 
They have US citizenship. WTF
 
Jason Warfield said:
After reading three different articles, the same message comes up over and over: many Mormons are fleeing Mexico for a better life in the US to escape the violence and fear they and their families will be the next set of victims.

So what makes these Mormons so special as opposed to the illegals trying to get here FOR THE SAME EXACT REASON?

Simple, many of these Mormons have dual citizenship with the US.

This branch of Mormons are a collection of those who escaped religious persecution at the hands of the US government in the late 1800's and/or broke with their mainstream church when they outlawed polygamy. When they could, quite a few got dual citizenship, which has enabled them to cross back and forth the border for decades.

So, my question is, why is the desire to leave due to violence for the Mormons a more acceptable concern, but because so many are seeking asylum...they are the animals, the undeserving for wanting to leave for the same reasons? Just because a slip of paper says they are citizens of the US so that makes it okay and to hell with the rest?

These Mormons are also citizens of Mexico. Why not insist that they stay in Mexico like the others and help to make it better? Why are we turning our heads away from the very real "problem" of chain migration as not all of their relatives will have dual citizenship...something Trump has said that he is against? If those Mormons without dual citizenship but are related to those that do illegally cross the border, will they get special treatment, or have their kids ripped from them and placed into cages as well?
Click to expand...

Religious and political persecution is a legitimate reason to apply for asylum here, and based on last week's events these people can prove persecution. The problem with your argument is you are conflating people who are claiming persecution who are actually coming for economic reasons. Therefore NOT "the exact same reason" as you are suggesting.

Everyone is allowed to apply, but a judge decides if the claim is legitimate. I think with this Mormon group the FACT that the Mexican authorities can substantiate their claim pretty much carries a lot of weight.
 
How dare these American citizens be allowed to return to America. What is the world coming to.

....just arrest any polygamist when they get off the plane.
 
Luther said:
How can you be loyal to one country while being a citizen to another?
Click to expand...

That's what I've been wondering.

How have they been able to maintain dual US/Mexican citizenship for decades, some families have even been there over a century, and most have been born in Mexico? If their loyalties lie in America, why have the majority of them still maintained residence in Mexico?
 
Jason Warfield said:
After reading three different articles, the same message comes up over and over: many Mormons are fleeing Mexico for a better life in the US to escape the violence and fear they and their families will be the next set of victims.

So what makes these Mormons so special as opposed to the illegals trying to get here FOR THE SAME EXACT REASON?

Simple, many of these Mormons have dual citizenship with the US.

This branch of Mormons are a collection of those who escaped religious persecution at the hands of the US government in the late 1800's and/or broke with their mainstream church when they outlawed polygamy. When they could, quite a few got dual citizenship, which has enabled them to cross back and forth the border for decades.

So, my question is, why is the desire to leave due to violence for the Mormons a more acceptable concern, but because so many are seeking asylum...they are the animals, the undeserving for wanting to leave for the same reasons? Just because a slip of paper says they are citizens of the US so that makes it okay and to hell with the rest?

These Mormons are also citizens of Mexico. Why not insist that they stay in Mexico like the others and help to make it better? Why are we turning our heads away from the very real "problem" of chain migration as not all of their relatives will have dual citizenship...something Trump has said that he is against? If those Mormons without dual citizenship but are related to those that do illegally cross the border, will they get special treatment, or have their kids ripped from them and placed into cages as well?
Click to expand...

I don't like Mormons and I don't pretend to be particularly upset by whatever happens to them. That being said, my principles demand that the border be opened, and this includes Mormon refugees, however distasteful I may personally find them.
 
Yeah, it's called the law...imagine that...:roll:
 
americanwoman said:
That's what I've been wondering.

How have they been able to maintain dual US/Mexican citizenship for decades, some families have even been there over a century, and most have been born in Mexico? If their loyalties lie in America, why have the majority of them still maintained residence in Mexico?
Click to expand...

"Loyalty" is meaningless. They are citizens or they are not.
 
Drawdown said:
"Loyalty" is meaningless. They are citizens or they are not.
Click to expand...

Actually it is meaningful, if you want to become a US citizen you have to prove your loyalty and take an Oath of Allegiance.

What Is the Oath of Allegiance? Preparing for the Ceremony

When taking the Oath, the new citizen promises to fulfill the following duties:

Support and defend the U.S. Constitution and the laws of the United States against its enemies.
Give up allegiance to any other nation or sovereign, and renounce hereditary or noble titles, if any.
Provide military or civilian service when called upon by the government to do so.
Click to expand...

So again, how is this large extended community who have been in Mexico for decades, some for centuries, able to maintain US citizenship for so long?
 
americanwoman said:
Actually it is meaningful, if you want to become a US citizen you have to prove your loyalty and take an Oath of Allegiance.

What Is the Oath of Allegiance? Preparing for the Ceremony



So again, how is this large extended community who have been in Mexico for decades, some for centuries, able to maintain US citizenship for so long?
Click to expand...

Loyalty is meaningless. You oath gives up allegiance, not loyalty. And to answer your question, it depends on when you were born Acquiring or Deriving Citizenship Through Parents | Nolo
 
americanwoman said:
That's what I've been wondering.

How have they been able to maintain dual US/Mexican citizenship for decades, some families have even been there over a century, and most have been born in Mexico? If their loyalties lie in America, why have the majority of them still maintained residence in Mexico?
Click to expand...
Im just guessing but if the 1st settlers were Americans snd they had children while in mexico, they may give them dual citizenship. Same would hold true of each generstion after that.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Irredentist said:
I don't like Mormons and I don't pretend to be particularly upset by whatever happens to them. That being said, my principles demand that the border be opened, and this includes Mormon refugees, however distasteful I may personally find them.
Click to expand...
What do you mean that your priniciples demand the border be opened?
What is your principle?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Yeah, that pesky dual CITIZENSHIP makes all the difference, doesn't it?:roll:
 
trouble13 said:
Im just guessing but if the 1st settlers were Americans snd they had children while in mexico, they may give them dual citizenship. Same would hold true of each generstion after that.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I just read too that dual citizenship in Mexico was not allowed until very recently so it also appears they must have only started taking on the Mexican citizenship in recent years, probably since they live there and it just makes things easier to pass back and forth since they have always maintained the US citizenship.
 
Court Jester said:
Religious and political persecution is a legitimate reason to apply for asylum here, and based on last week's events these people can prove persecution. The problem with your argument is you are conflating people who are claiming persecution who are actually coming for economic reasons. Therefore NOT "the exact same reason" as you are suggesting.

Everyone is allowed to apply, but a judge decides if the claim is legitimate. I think with this Mormon group the FACT that the Mexican authorities can substantiate their claim pretty much carries a lot of weight.
Click to expand...

Can you clarify your statement here?

Who can prove persecution?
 
americanwoman said:
That's what I've been wondering.

How have they been able to maintain dual US/Mexican citizenship for decades, some families have even been there over a century, and most have been born in Mexico? If their loyalties lie in America, why have the majority of them still maintained residence in Mexico?
Click to expand...

How did George Clooney live in Italy for all those years while maintaining his US citizenship?
 
Irredentist said:
I don't like Mormons and I don't pretend to be particularly upset by whatever happens to them. That being said, my principles demand that the border be opened, and this includes Mormon refugees, however distasteful I may personally find them.
Click to expand...

Now you have raised them to the status of refugee?
 
Mason66 said:
How did George Clooney live in Italy for all those years while maintaining his US citizenship?
Click to expand...

I don't know but it's a different scenario, no?

If George Clooney's great-great grandfather moved to Italy with a group of people and all their generations were born in Italy, including George, and was granted dual Italian/US citizenship it might be a comparable scenario.
 
Irredentist said:
It's not a status one is raised to, but rather forced into.
Click to expand...

These people participated in the violence that lead to this attack, so no they are not refugees.
 
Jason Warfield said:
After reading three different articles, the same message comes up over and over: many Mormons are fleeing Mexico for a better life in the US to escape the violence and fear they and their families will be the next set of victims.

So what makes these Mormons so special as opposed to the illegals trying to get here FOR THE SAME EXACT REASON?

Simple, many of these Mormons have dual citizenship with the US.

This branch of Mormons are a collection of those who escaped religious persecution at the hands of the US government in the late 1800's and/or broke with their mainstream church when they outlawed polygamy. When they could, quite a few got dual citizenship, which has enabled them to cross back and forth the border for decades.

So, my question is, why is the desire to leave due to violence for the Mormons a more acceptable concern, but because so many are seeking asylum...they are the animals, the undeserving for wanting to leave for the same reasons? Just because a slip of paper says they are citizens of the US so that makes it okay and to hell with the rest?

These Mormons are also citizens of Mexico. Why not insist that they stay in Mexico like the others and help to make it better? Why are we turning our heads away from the very real "problem" of chain migration as not all of their relatives will have dual citizenship...something Trump has said that he is against? If those Mormons without dual citizenship but are related to those that do illegally cross the border, will they get special treatment, or have their kids ripped from them and placed into cages as well?
Click to expand...

It's not illegal for a US citizen to come to the US from Mexico.
 
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