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Thread: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

  1. #21
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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    None of your assertions address the differences between the vague, general case you are making and the idiosyncratic specifics of the Trump/Zelenski case.

    ftsoa

    That's like what I told the officer who ticketed me for running a red light.
    The facts are:
    • it's perfectly legal for someone to drive down the street
    • I was just driving down the street
    • I'm a Trumpco customer.

    Therefore you are giving me a ticket just because I'm a Trumpco customer.

    All three of those are irrefutable facts.
    No. It is OK for Trump to look into corruption as long as it is not a democrat running for office. They are pillaged.
    Corruption should be looked into by anyone in a free country without fear of consequences.

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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    Sorry but it is the facts. It is exactly what he did. He asked a leader of another country to look into corruption. Fact. Looking into corruption became an issue because it was a democratic leader at the time. Fact.
    No. The big distinction is he referred to a specific person, which is not the same thing as investigating corruption in Ukraine as a whole. If Trump had been smart about it, he would have let others do this kind of thing; and if he felt compelled to speak to the Ukrainian president directly about it, he could have done so without naming anyone: "We have an ongoing corruption investigation we'd love to partner with your justice department" or something like that. This at least gives him plausible deniability about it being just to target Biden. The fact he's targeting a specific individual who is running against him is just a massive error.

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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Mulvaney would be gone, but who would want to replace him? Bannon? Maybe.

    What self-respecting person would take any of those jobs?

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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by ElChupacabra View Post
    No. The big distinction is he referred to a specific person, which is not the same thing as investigating corruption in Ukraine as a whole. If Trump had been smart about it, he would have let others do this kind of thing; and if he felt compelled to speak to the Ukrainian president directly about it, he could have done so without naming anyone: "We have an ongoing corruption investigation we'd love to partner with your justice department" or something like that. This at least gives him plausible deniability about it being just to target Biden. The fact he's targeting a specific individual who is running against him is just a massive error.
    He believes he is above the law.

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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    No. It is OK for Trump to look into corruption as long as it is not a democrat running for office. They are pillaged.
    The idea of Trump looking into corruption is laughable. He, himself, is drowning it it.

    The idea that he bothered by the adult child of a politician capitalizing on his father's power simply boggles the mind.

    Like a true gangster, the only corruption he objects to is corruption where he doesn't get his own cut.

  6. #26
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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    No. It is OK for Trump to look into corruption as long as it is not a democrat running for office. They are pillaged.
    Alright. If that's what you want to believe...
    You can have your own beliefs because you are privileged.
    I may be wrong.

  7. #27
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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by ElChupacabra View Post
    No. The big distinction is he referred to a specific person, which is not the same thing as investigating corruption in Ukraine as a whole. If Trump had been smart about it, he would have let others do this kind of thing; and if he felt compelled to speak to the Ukrainian president directly about it, he could have done so without naming anyone: "We have an ongoing corruption investigation we'd love to partner with your justice department" or something like that. This at least gives him plausible deniability about it being just to target Biden. The fact he's targeting a specific individual who is running against him is just a massive error.
    If I want someone's help looking into corruption the best way is not to give them any information to work with or what I suspect. Brilliant. I can see how beneficial not being specific is. As I plumber I go to your house and you say their is a plumbing problem but decide the best way to find the problem is not to be specific and let me spend a few days looking aimlessly for the suspected problem. Just genius.
    Corruption should be looked into by anyone in a free country without fear of consequences.

  8. #28
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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    If I want someone's help looking into corruption the best way is not to give them any information to work with or what I suspect. Brilliant. I can see how beneficial not being specific is. As I plumber I go to your house and you say their is a plumbing problem but decide the best way to find the problem is not to be specific and let me spend a few days looking aimlessly for the suspected problem. Just genius.
    What isn't genius is not understanding the implications of targeting your political opponent openly. I find it pretty surprising you don't find this problematic. If there's suspected corruption then whoever involved is going to be found as part of that investigation. In this particular case, the corruption in the Ukraine involved more than just the Bidens, so if the real intent is to root out the players then one wouldn't only be looking for the person who is running against you.

    More importantly, Trump provided nothing other than pure supposition; something he did when he made his remark about China looking into the Bidens. None of this sounds like an actual investigation, but a character smear. I have no problem with the Bidens or whoever being investigated, but not in the "I hear this guys up to no good, so you may want to take a look" fashion which is amateurish.

  9. #29
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    Re: Barr, Mulvaney, or Giuliani Who Will Go Down First

    Quote Originally Posted by ElChupacabra View Post
    What isn't genius is not understanding the implications of targeting your political opponent openly. I find it pretty surprising you don't find this problematic. If there's suspected corruption then whoever involved is going to be found as part of that investigation. In this particular case, the corruption in the Ukraine involved more than just the Bidens, so if the real intent is to root out the players then one wouldn't only be looking for the person who is running against you.

    More importantly, Trump provided nothing other than pure supposition; something he did when he made his remark about China looking into the Bidens. None of this sounds like an actual investigation, but a character smear. I have no problem with the Bidens or whoever being investigated, but not in the "I hear this guys up to no good, so you may want to take a look" fashion which is amateurish.
    No your right. This simple. Trump asked the leader to look into possible corruption. It seems asking leader to look into suspected corruption is a high crime now in this country.
    Corruption should be looked into by anyone in a free country without fear of consequences.

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