Joe Biden said Teachers and Fireman make $100,000 a year

tacomancer said:

I see Biden as useful to absorb conservative hatred while us liberals can do our business of (hopefully) electing the next president.

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That's not how it works. That's how we all WISH it worked. You're almost describing a coalition, which in all honesty is probably the only way we will ever extricate ourselves out of this malaise which threatens to be generational in span.
I am convinced that when I am ninety, I'll probably still be hearing discouraged bitter Trumpers blurting out verbal manure.

Yeah, the only way, in my humble opinion, that we ever lessen all this hate and discontent is if we're all forced to get locked in a room together where NO PARTY is mathematically capable of EVER assuming a veto-proof and filibuster proof supermajority...where not even any TWO parties can manage to pull it off together even.

A coalition system will FORCE all these thoroughly balkanized warring factions to cooperate with each other and treat each other with a modicum of respect.

What WE...we Democrats and other lefties, NEED to do is pretend at least just a little bit that we are capable of BEING a coalition and acting in common cause for the greatest benefit over the course of the next twenty-four months.
Then after we achieve that, we can aim for the next forty-eight months, then the next 128 months.

If we fail to transform this country and leave it better for the majority in 128 months than when we first got back into power, then we should seriously question whether there even deserves to BE something like a Left leaning party at all.

The Republicans, for the most part, have had many times more than that over a period of the last forty years.
They have been in power for longer periods of time and with larger majorities, more often, ever since 1980.

They've enjoyed a total of 24 years in the White House, twenty two years in the Senate, and twenty years in power in the House.
And most recently, from 2017 to 2019, they also enjoyed a full trifecta, a hat trick, with control over the House, Senate, White House and now, the SCOTUS as a bonus Daily Double.



And they have FAILED to even leave it as well off as we were prior to them sweeping back into power starting with Reagan in 1980.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

I have family all over PA and that is completely untrue.
It is remotely possible that a fire chief in Philly MIGHT make a hundred, but in the typical Pennsylvania town or city?
Nope, no way in Hell, and no way are teachers ANYWHERE making that kind of dough in public ed either.
In the private sector, possibly but the only folks making a hundred grand or more in public schools are the upper level administrators in the largest city school systems. The rank and file teachers? No way in Hell.

And the same for NJ and MA except MAYBE in the largest cities, maybe the chief or his immediate underlings, again only in the largest cities.
New York? New York City?? A hundred large a year is just enough to just maybe get by unless you're okay with living in the worst slums.

Average teacher AND firefighter pay in most of the country is between $45 and 65 thousand a year, and Joe Biden is smoking some damn good herb.

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Dude, yes they do.

Rexedgar said:

Biden has always been VP material, imo, not lead dog. Politics is a much different challenge since Trump and I'm not sure what things are going to look like post Trump; last two words look good!

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I think this current hysteria will pass. What I think we are facing is that the conservatives had realized that they are a losing culture and are displaying their final freakout, but they don't have the numbers to take over US culture like they want. (I pray to God I am right, daily on this as I am not 100% certain my analysis is correct). We will see a liberal majority for a period of time and conservatives will reform themselves closer to what they were during the late 70s (with intellectualism). At the end of the day Conservative impulses are human impulses, but those impulses are sullied by a culture that is dying and the hatred that generates. The desire to live your life, play by the rules, be honest and honorable, are entirely human. Liberals want that too, but from a different perspective and that is also human. We just need to survive the echos of the (can you believe it?) civil war of all things before we can move forward as a nation.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

That's not how it works. That's how we all WISH it worked. You're almost describing a coalition, which in all honesty is probably the only way we will ever extricate ourselves out of this malaise which threatens to be generational in span.
I am convinced that when I am ninety, I'll probably still be hearing discouraged bitter Trumpers blurting out verbal manure.

Yeah, the only way, in my humble opinion, that we ever lessen all this hate and discontent is if we're all forced to get locked in a room together where NO PARTY is mathematically capable of EVER assuming a veto-proof and filibuster proof supermajority...where not even any TWO parties can manage to pull it off together even.

A coalition system will FORCE all these thoroughly balkanized warring factions to cooperate with each other and treat each other with a modicum of respect.

What WE...we Democrats and other lefties, NEED to do is pretend at least just a little bit that we are capable of BEING a coalition and acting in common cause for the greatest benefit over the course of the next twenty-four months.
Then after we achieve that, we can aim for the next forty-eight months, then the next 128 months.

If we fail to transform this country and leave it better for the majority in 128 months than when we first got back into power, then we should seriously question whether there even deserves to BE something like a Left leaning party at all.

The Republicans, for the most part, have had many times more than that over a period of the last forty years.
They have been in power for longer periods of time and with larger majorities, more often, ever since 1980.

They've enjoyed a total of 24 years in the White House, twenty two years in the Senate, and twenty years in power in the House.
And most recently, from 2017 to 2019, they also enjoyed a full trifecta, a hat trick, with control over the House, Senate, White House and now, the SCOTUS as a bonus Daily Double.

And they have FAILED to even leave it as well off as we were prior to them sweeping back into power starting with Reagan in 1980.

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I am a bit too drunk right now to understand this, but its probably smart.

Airyaman said:

It's rather sad. Biden doesn't really stand a chance no matter what polls say right now. He's not raising money, he's burning through what money he has, and it's obvious that he is way past his prime. This is not about real age, this is about mental capability. He is stumbling. He may be physically fit, but he is showing some obvious mental decline. We need a POTUS who is mentally up to the task of fixing all of the **** Trump has ruined. Biden simply isn't it.

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FFS his EYEBALL EXPLODED the other night. :lamo
I was paying attention to something in the kitchen for a moment and then when I looked back it was like Freddie Krueger meets Regan from The Exorcist minus the Green Goddess salad dressing.



Okay okay, maybe I'm exaggera...his ****ing EYEBALL EXPLODED!!!!!!

noonereal said:

Dude, yes they do.

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Dude, yes they DO...in small pockets.
I have fire/EMS and cops in my extended family and circle, I know what they make or used to make.
I have teachers in the woodpile too, and I know what they make, too.
Teachers don't even make a hundred grand in LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District)

When we speak of averages, there's no 100 thousand a year salary AVERAGE for fire and EMS, there's the tippy top in the very largest cities.

Surrealistik said:

...

You don't see how it's disingenuous and silly to talk about the earnings of a tiny, infinitesimally small % of earners when trying to make a counterpoint on the basis of tax burden? It's basically on par with Republicans pearl clutching over the tiny minority of farmer's kin who might get dinged by the inheritance tax because they take in an estate worth millions: #1: it's true for only a scant minority of people, and #2: those few people who it does affect are still very well off after the fact. And I'm not even getting into the particulars of probable or mandated salary increases resulting from MFA when employers no longer have to waste a fortune on health insurance.

Why do you insist on defending the indefensible? Biden ****ed up.

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Maybe it would be helpful to read the actual words Biden uttered, from the transcript of the debate:

On the single most important thing facing the American public, I think it's awfully important to be straightforward with them. The plan is going to cost at least $30 trillion over 10 years. That is more on a yearly basis than the entire federal budget.
And we talk about how we're going to pay for it. The study recently came out showing that, in fact, it will reduce costs. But for people making between $50,000 and $75,000 a year, their taxes are going to go up about $5,000, because the fact is they'll pay more in new taxes, 7.4 percent plus, or 5 percent, plus a 4 percent income tax. If you're making -- if a fireman and a schoolteacher are making $100,000 a year, their taxes are going to go up about $10,000. That is more than they will possibly save on this health care plan. We have a plan put forward that will work.

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So in describing costs of the plan Biden inserted "fireman and teacher".....Number 1. It is a fact that many firemen and teachers DO make that salary. Number 2. His referencing those two occupations really didn't have anything to do with the point he was making. It is not relevant what fireman make in Peoria, or what the school nurse makes in Beverly Hills.
Biden was describing the potential costs of a health plan.

So that is why I insist on defending Biden's statement. Because it was not at all what you claim it was. He did not claim that all teachers earn that. He was not talking about an infinitesimally small % of earners, he was talking about the cost to people on different income levels. Read the actual statement.

Now I will agree that Biden is not the most articulate of souls, but judging on the last three years, that is no longer a requirement for the job.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Dude, yes they DO...in small pockets.
I have fire/EMS and cops in my extended family and circle, I know what they make or used to make.
I have teachers in the woodpile too, and I know what they make, too.
Teachers don't even make a hundred grand in LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District)

When we speak of averages, there's no 100 thousand a year salary AVERAGE for fire and EMS, there's the tippy top in the very largest cities.

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Point worth noting is that Biden didn't speak of averages. He used teachers as an example of $100,000 salary earners. Where I come from this is not unusual. There are more than ten states whose MEDIAN salary is above 70,000. Regardless, he added an awkward reference in making his point, which it seems everyone would like to ignore.

The teachers who grade papers at home at night while watching Rachel Maddow probably make a hundred grand a year.

JMR said:

Maybe it would be helpful to read the actual words Biden uttered, from the transcript of the debate:



So in describing costs of the plan Biden inserted "fireman and teacher".....Number 1. It is a fact that many firemen and teachers DO make that salary. Number 2. His referencing those two occupations really didn't have anything to do with the point he was making. It is not relevant what fireman make in Peoria, or what the school nurse makes in Beverly Hills.
Biden was describing the potential costs of a health plan.

So that is why I insist on defending Biden's statement. Because it was not at all what you claim it was. He did not claim that all teachers earn that. He was not talking about an infinitesimally small % of earners, he was talking about the cost to people on different income levels. Read the actual statement.

Now I will agree that Biden is not the most articulate of souls, but judging on the last three years, that is no longer a requirement for the job.

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I'm completely familiar with what Biden said, hence my reference to the context, so you can save your assertion of ignorance.

Second no, 'many' firemen and teachers do not make six figures, and again, this is basically the ceiling in major cities, and even if they did, and even if they, or anyone else at that matter, were getting taxed at that level (which I sincerely doubt coming from Biden, who is using figures that woefully underestimate MFA savings in an attempt to make a political point, along with disingenuously citing 'firemen and teachers' as a conscious choice in an attempt to create revulsion), they're still generally well off. Meanwhile, it entirely ignores the impact on salaries/other benefits when employers aren't having to dole out a big chunk of compensation in the form of healthcare coverage.

Again, this is basically on par with Republicans attacking inheritance taxes on the basis of a tiny percentile of inheritors getting cash poor but asset rich estates, and likewise comparable in that those inheritors will still be in an excellent position after taxes, even if they need to liquidate some of those inherited assets.

Biden ****ed up in a clumsy, obvious, laughable and above all, ineffective attempt to make MFA look bad using cherry picked numbers.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

FFS his EYEBALL EXPLODED the other night. :lamo
I was paying attention to something in the kitchen for a moment and then when I looked back it was like Freddie Krueger meets Regan from The Exorcist minus the Green Goddess salad dressing.

Okay okay, maybe I'm exaggera...his ****ing EYEBALL EXPLODED!!!!!!

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You're also exaggerating when you saw this happen. This image is from the Sept. 4th debate.

Surrealistik said:

I'm completely familiar with what Biden said, hence my reference to the context, so you can save your assertion of ignorance.

Second no, 'many' firemen and teachers do not make six figures, and again; this is basically the ceiling in major cities, and even if they did, and even if they, or anyone else at that matter, were getting taxed at that level (which I sincerely doubt coming from Biden, who is using figures that woefully underestimate MFA savings in an attempt to make a political point, along with disingenuously citing 'firemen and teachers' as a conscious choice in an attempt to create revulsion), they're still generally well off.

Again, this is basically on par with Republicans attacking inheritance taxes on the basis of a tiny percentile of inheritors getting cash poor but asset rich estates, and likewise comparable in that those inheritors will still be in an excellent position after taxes, even if they need to liquidate some of those inherited assets.

Biden ****ed up in a clumsy, obvious, laughable and above all, ineffective attempt to make MFA look bad using cherry picked numbers.

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I was not asserting you are ignorant, I supplied the words to show how you are focussing on a casual reference he made, rather than the point of his answer. He's an east coast dweller, and such assertions do not appear as crazy exaggerations. When I heard that statement it did not register at all, because it is a simple fact here. Regardless of the occupation of taxpayers, he was speaking of income levels and corresponding tax increase.

And FYI, I'm not a Biden supporter. I just think we should brand candidates with their actual falsehoods, and not ones alleged by word games. So if you believe his figures are wrong, make that case. It really matters not at all whether teachers or fireman or stock brokers are the payers.

"The national average public school teacher salary for 2017-18 was $60,477—a 1.6 percent increase from the previous year. NEA estimates that the national average salary for the 2018-19 school year is $61,730—a 2.1 increase from the prior school year. But there's a wide discrepancy between states...."


Which States Have the Highest and Lowest Teacher Salaries? - Teaching Now - Education Week Teacher

"The average salary for a Firefighter is $45,454 per year in the United States."
Average Firefighter Salaries in the United States | Indeed.com

I'm sure teachers and firemen are delighted to know that Biden knows so much about their earnings....
No way to sugar coat it, this was yet another stupid Biden gaffe.

Joe Biden said Teachers and Fireman make $100,000 a year

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not around here. Biden needs to be locked in a soundproof room and replaced with AI so that we have a better chance of voting out Mango the Clown. maybe we can even elect the AI Biden and let it be president. AI is more than 35 years old. AI is also much better than NI, which is the current president.

JMR said:

I was not asserting you are ignorant, I supplied the words to show how you are focussing on a casual reference he made, rather than the point of his answer. He's an east coast dweller, and such assertions do not appear as crazy exaggerations. When I heard that statement it did not register at all, because it is a simple fact here. Regardless of the occupation of taxpayers, he was speaking of income levels and corresponding tax increase.

And FYI, I'm not a Biden supporter. I just think we should brand candidates with their actual falsehoods, and not ones alleged by word games. So if you believe his figures are wrong, make that case. It really matters not at all whether teachers or fireman or stock brokers are the payers.

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Again, $100k for those professions is the ceiling, not the norm, or the average, or the median, and is only true of a tiny % of teachers and firemen, and this is true even of the east coast.

Further, I've already addressed why the point is laughably weak outside of Biden's attempt to create an adverse emotional response to MFA by citing popular professions: because even after paying Biden's exaggerated taxes, these people are still going to be living comfortably; on the basis of replacing premiums alone, before co-pays and deductibles, they're going to be down maybe a couple of thousand net: Tracking the rise in premium contributions and cost-sharing for families with large employer coverage - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

Even if you want to assert that Biden's obviously exaggerated figures are 100% correct, he's still almost certainly wrong about these earners paying out more overall for healthcare and related services via taxes than they did under the status quo:

What is the Average Health Insurance Premium?

According to statistics from the Health Affairs Journal (a publication of Project HOPE, A nonprofit international health organization); Americans pay over $3.4 trillion a year for medical care. Those numbers are staggering. What are Americans getting for their money? Breaking this number down even further, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid services estimate Americans spent $10,000 in on average for healthcare in 2016 and this number increased to $18,764 in 2017.

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And again, we're not even getting into the positive impact on salary and other benefits when employers no longer have to devote a considerable portion of compensation to healthcare coverage.


As stated, Biden was being completely and clumsily disingenuous at best in pursuit of an MFA smear, or making a ridiculous, stupid gaffe at worst; those are your options, and neither of them are any good.

trixare4kids said:

"The national average public school teacher salary for 2017-18 was $60,477—a 1.6 percent increase from the previous year. NEA estimates that the national average salary for the 2018-19 school year is $61,730—a 2.1 increase from the prior school year. But there's a wide discrepancy between states...."


Which States Have the Highest and Lowest Teacher Salaries? - Teaching Now - Education Week Teacher

"The average salary for a Firefighter is $45,454 per year in the United States."
Average Firefighter Salaries in the United States | Indeed.com

I'm sure teachers and firemen are delighted to know that Biden knows so much about their earnings....
No way to sugar coat it, this was yet another stupid Biden gaffe.

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They get June,July and August off and if there is a holiday on the calendar they get that off too.They only work 8 months a year.

Surrealistik said:

Again, $100k for those professions is the ceiling, not the norm, or the average, or the median, and is only true of a tiny % of teachers and firemen, and this is true even of the east coast.

Further, I've already addressed why the point is laughably weak outside of Biden's attempt to create an adverse emotional response to MFA by citing popular professions: because even after paying Biden's exaggerated taxes, these people are still going to be living comfortably; on the basis of replacing premiums alone, before co-pays and deductibles, they're going to be down maybe a couple of thousand net: Tracking the rise in premium contributions and cost-sharing for families with large employer coverage - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

Even if you want to assert that Biden's obviously exaggerated figures are 100% correct, he's still almost certainly wrong about these earners paying out more overall for healthcare and related services via taxes than they did under the status quo:

What is the Average Health Insurance Premium?



And again, we're not even getting into the positive impact on salary and other benefits when employers no longer have to devote a considerable portion of compensation to healthcare coverage.


As stated, Biden was being completely and clumsily disingenuous at best in pursuit of an MFA smear, or making a ridiculous, stupid gaffe at worst; those are your options, and neither of them are any good.

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Those are your options, because you overlook the obvious. Many teachers and firefighters make a very good salary. They also have very nice benefits, which they are not likely to want to lose. Teacher Unions and FD unions are very big democratic strongholds, and he might have been signaling a warning about MFA not being as popular through the ranks as many progressives believe.

I'm glad that you changed your focus to disputing his numbers, which I never claimed were correct.

FYI, teacher salaries are a matter of public record, and if you choose to take a look, you might be surprised. I just took a look at a local district, and more than half of the staff makes MORE than one hundred grand. Most of the rest is above 75.

I am not arguing that MFA is good or bad, simply that Biden citing teachers as an example of $100,000 salary is not incorrect.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

Dude, yes they DO...in small pockets.
I have fire/EMS and cops in my extended family and circle, I know what they make or used to make.
I have teachers in the woodpile too, and I know what they make, too.
Teachers don't even make a hundred grand in LAUSD (Los Angeles Unified School District)

When we speak of averages, there's no 100 thousand a year salary AVERAGE for fire and EMS, there's the tippy top in the very largest cities.

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read the damned thread. I 'he did not speak to averages.

The bottom line remains the same. Cops, teachers, firemen are all GROSSLY overpaid.

noonereal said:

read the damned thread. I 'he did not speak to averages.

The bottom line remains the same. Cops, teachers, firemen are all GROSSLY overpaid.

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And that's BS.
If you think teachers (and education in general) is expensive, wait till you get a load of what generational ignorance is going to cost you. And yes...YOU...because if you think it's stupid on stilts now, give it twenty five years.
I probably won't be around anymore but you will be.

And you're gonna be hating life unless we liberals manage to save your sorry ass, which we probably will do eventually.
We always manage to.

Nitey nite, I am outta here.

The reason why capitalism is the only way is because it has the promise of the potential to get ahead , so since that was taking away' how long do you think it will take for the population to throw out the people who took that potential away.
This has already been totally done by the right, as all of you know and it has been the case for 40 years now, so how much longer do you think that capitalism has before it will self destruct.

If he claims that he "would raise taxes to do so.", then the word 'should' was omitted from the message.

As in should make 100,000/yr.

Integrityrespec said:

In what reality is Joe Biden living? He said in response to a question on health care cost and tax increases in Tuesday's debate that School Teachers and Firemen make $100,000 annually and would raise taxes to do so. Where in American does that salary represent the average pay for those folks. More lies from Joe and more misrepresentations.

He also said George Washington said having foreign governments meddle in our elections was the biggest threat to U.S. No he named two cautionary steps the U.S. needed to follow, he said all foreign entanglements and political parties were the biggest dangers to the U.S. He advocated America staying isolated from foreign countries and warned against the divisive nature of political parties.
I think we take his advice.
George Washington's Farewell Address - Wikipedia

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My turn to lie to everyone. So what your saying is that it is a good idea that other countries screw over our election process. There's your logic from the other side, Without lies and distortion your party couldn't or wouldn't exist.

JMR said:

Those are your options, because you overlook the obvious. Many teachers and firefighters make a very good salary. They also have very nice benefits, which they are not likely to want to lose. Teacher Unions and FD unions are very big democratic strongholds, and he might have been signaling a warning about MFA not being as popular through the ranks as many progressives believe.

I'm glad that you changed your focus to disputing his numbers, which I never claimed were correct.

FYI, teacher salaries are a matter of public record, and if you choose to take a look, you might be surprised. I just took a look at a local district, and more than half of the staff makes MORE than one hundred grand. Most of the rest is above 75.

I am not arguing that MFA is good or bad, simply that Biden citing teachers as an example of $100,000 salary is not incorrect.

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I was never not disputing his numbers; there was simply a change in focus, but if you insist on pushing the idea that Biden was not being absurd and disingenuous, sure, let's get back to talking numbers regarding teacher pay:

Survey: New York teachers continue to be nation’s highest paid - newyorkupstate.com

Salary & Benefits | Apply to Teach in New York City Public Schools

SALARIES
We offer extremely competitive salaries to newly hired teachers. Salaries are based on prior experience as well as academic coursework and degrees earned. For 2019-20, starting salaries for teachers range from $57,845 (bachelor’s degree, no prior teaching experience) to $87,510 (master’s degree, eight years teaching experience, plus additional coursework). New teachers with a master’s degree but no prior teaching experience will earn $65,026.Teachers’ salaries increase each year with more experience and educational qualifications.

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Los Angeles: Public School Teacher Salary in Los Angeles, CA | Salary.com


Firefighters:

LAFD: Pay Scale With the LAFD | Chron.com

NYC (including holiday and overtime pay): firefighter-salary-guide

So basically, Biden is only correct with respect to firefighter veterans of 5+ years in New York City specifically, who are making considerable holiday and overtime pay. His statement was ridiculous, even if it's technically true for a tiny minority of firefighters, and true for virtually no teachers.

As to 'losing benefits' Biden never mention that nor should he, because aside from healthcare, in which case they're almost certainly getting better and less costly coverage, they will lose none.


Again, stupid gaffe or absurd attempt to rile up an adverse emotional response by falsely citing popular professions as being adversely affected by MFA implementation, when not even 5% of the people working in those professions would make such a salary; the choice is yours. Stop defending the indefensible.

Surrealistik said:

I was never not disputing his numbers; there was simply a change in focus, but if you insist on pushing the idea that Biden was not being absurd and disingenuous, sure, let's get back to talking numbers regarding teacher pay:

Survey: New York teachers continue to be nation’s highest paid - newyorkupstate.com

Salary & Benefits | Apply to Teach in New York City Public Schools



Los Angeles: Public School Teacher Salary in Los Angeles, CA | Salary.com


Firefighters:

LAFD: Pay Scale With the LAFD | Chron.com

NYC (including holiday and overtime pay): firefighter-salary-guide

So basically, Biden is only correct with respect to firefighter veterans of 5+ years in New York City specifically, who are making considerable holiday and overtime pay. His statement was ridiculous, even if it's technically true for a tiny minority of firefighters, and true for virtually no teachers.

As to 'losing benefits' Biden never mention that nor should he, because aside from healthcare, in which case they're almost certainly getting better and less costly coverage, they will lose none.


Again, stupid gaffe or absurd attempt to rile up an adverse emotional response by falsely citing popular professions as being adversely affected by MFA implementation, when not even 5% of the people working in those professions would make such a salary; the choice is yours. Stop defending the indefensible.

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I am sure you believe you have disputed my claim, which is that Biden made a casual reference to people who are indeed included in the category. I'm not sure what further point you think your are making. But go for it. Biden is a somewhat flawed candidate, but it would be nice to look to another better candidate on the basis of actual factual information. This doubling down on very tenuous positions seems more fitting on the GOP side.

JMR said:

I am sure you believe you have disputed my claim, which is that Biden made a casual reference to people who are indeed included in the category. I'm not sure what further point you think your are making. But go for it. Biden is a somewhat flawed candidate, but it would be nice to look to another better candidate on the basis of actual factual information. This doubling down on very tenuous positions seems more fitting on the GOP side.

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My point is that Biden made a glaring stupid, which he most certainly did per the links and numbers I've provided, whether he intended to or not, and you shouldn't defend him being disingenuous or foolish.