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We've gone beyond political into right vs wrong and truth vs lies

SonOfDaedalus

SonOfDaedalus

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1. Trump's claims about Bidens are lies. That's a fact. The prosecutor was so corrupt Ukrainians were protesting him.

2. A president directing investigations against political opponents is just wrong. Full stop. That's what happens in China, Russia, and the Philippines. We believe in prosecutorial independence.

This is not political. This is truth vs lies and right vs wrong. How has an entire political party become immoral?
 
Naturally, investigating Trump (non-stop) is not seen by you as being political in the least. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Naturally, investigating Trump (non-stop) is not seen by you as being political in the least. ;)
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If Obama ordered Trump and his family investigated you would have a point. But that never happened.

Mueller was appointed by both parties to investigate. That was proper.

Are you saying that you don't believe prosecutors should be independent of politics? Are you saying you want mayors and governmors to direct their prosecutors to intestigate their opponents?
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
If Obama ordered Trump and his family investigated you would have a point. But that never happened.

Mueller was appointed by both parties to investigate. That was proper.

Are you saying that you don't believe prosecutors should be independent of politics? Are you saying you want mayors and governmors to direct their prosecutors to intestigate their opponents?
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It's not as if both parties are in the "official" impeachment inquiry mode in the House.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Naturally, investigating Trump (non-stop) is not seen by you as being political in the least. ;)
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Because it is "political" to call out Trump's lies and investigate his blatant corruption? This used to be a given for all of us.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It's not as if both parties are in the "official" impeachment inquiry mode in the House.
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This is true. Some have turned their backs to the lies and corruption out of blind partisanship. Since when is that admirable?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It's not as if both parties are in the "official" impeachment inquiry mode in the House.
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I agree with that point. An official vote should be taken whether it's required or not. It will at least give Trump one less excuse for obstructing.

But you didn't answer my question.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
I agree with that point. An official vote should be taken whether it's required or not. It will at least give Trump one less excuse for obstructing.

But you didn't answer my question.
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You do know that the House Trumpists will demand subpoena rights so they can turn the investigation into a 3 ring circus by calling on Biden and his son to testify. That is the main reason for not taking a vote which is purely ceremonial since the speaker is well within her rights to call for an inquiry.
 
iguanaman said:
You do know that the House Trumpists will demand subpoena rights so they can turn the investigation into a 3 ring circus by calling on Biden and his son to testify. That is the main reason for not taking a vote which is purely ceremonial since the speaker is well within her rights to call for an inquiry.
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A circus within a circus. What a concept.
 
iguanaman said:
Yes wouldn't you just love that.
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No, I wouldn't, and I can't imagine why you would think I would. Why don't you try thinking about the good of the nation instead of partisan crap for a change?
 
nota bene said:
No, I wouldn't, and I can't imagine why you would think I would. Why don't you try thinking about the good of the nation instead of partisan crap for a change?
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So you agree that there is no reason for Trumpists in the House to be allowed to subpoena Biden and his son and that their innocence or guilt has no bearing on the impeachment inquiry?
 
iguanaman said:
You do know that the House Trumpists will demand subpoena rights so they can turn the investigation into a 3 ring circus by calling on Biden and his son to testify. That is the main reason for not taking a vote which is purely ceremonial since the speaker is well within her rights to call for an inquiry.
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Well, it's only fair that both sides be allowed to subpoena witnesses. If that's part of the inquiry process then we have to go through it sooner or later anyway.

I think the most important thing is that there should be no grandstanding this time. Hire a professional to ask the questions. No facetime for candidates BS.
 
I would like to know the picture trump supporters have in their heads as to what america should look like?

They have shoved precedent to the side and yet demand the dems follow precedent. The party of law and order is blocking everything congress is asking for and lying in the process. An attorney general who decides in favor of the president on everything. A secretary of state who lies to protect the president. The secretary of the treasury who will not hand over trump's taxes and a secretary of education who is making students pay back funds for a defunct college. Totally against anyone brown coming into their wonderful america and who have no problem supporting people who march in streets chanting jews will not replace us.

This is today's republican party....and let's not forget, a president who has lied thousands of times.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Well, it's only fair that both sides be allowed to subpoena witnesses. If that's part of the inquiry process then we have to go through it sooner or later anyway.

I think the most important thing is that there should be no grandstanding this time. Hire a professional to ask the questions. No facetime for candidates BS.
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Actually no. The House inquiry is like a Grand Jury. There is no cross examination in a Grand Jury proceeding. Trump will have ample time to call witnesses in the Senate Trial. That is how the founders decreed it and that is how it will be. You don't have a problem with our Constitution do you?
 
bongsaway said:
I would like to know the picture trump supporters have in their heads as to what america should look like?

They have shoved precedent to the side and yet demand the dems follow precedent. The party of law and order is blocking everything congress is asking for and lying in the process. An attorney general who decides in favor of the president on everything. A secretary of state who lies to protect the president. The secretary of the treasury who will not hand over trump's taxes and a secretary of education who is making students pay back funds for a defunct college. Totally against anyone brown coming into their wonderful america and who have no problem supporting people who march in streets chanting jews will not replace us.

This is today's republican party....and let's not forget, a president who has lied thousands of times.
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At least the poor people scammed by Trump into thousands of dollars in debt for Trump University go their money back and Trump was forced to settle a lawsuit.

Why people would vote for a billionaire who swindles regular folks is something I cannot understand.
 
iguanaman said:
Actually no. The House inquiry is like a Grand Jury. There is no cross examination in a Grand Jury proceeding. Trump will have ample time to call witnesses in the Senate Trial. That is how the founders decreed it and that is how it will be. You don't have a problem with our Constitution do you?
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You're right. I learned more about it today.
 
iguanaman said:
So you agree that there is no reason for Trumpists in the House to be allowed to subpoena Biden and his son and that their innocence or guilt has no bearing on the impeachment inquiry?
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I'm not going to offer an opinion.
 
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