• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

So much for that recession

lwf said:
It's usually the other way around. Republicans cause recessions by deregulating and artificially boosting the market which causes a brief spike (that they love to take credit for) followed by a collapse. Business regulation promoted by democrats prevents big spikes, but also results in fewer dips: I.E. a healthy economy. Market history is proof enough of this. Bush contributed to a giant recession by deregulating, (and had to reintroduce regulations in a panic at the end of his presidency) while Obama increased regulations resulting in a slow but steady climb out of it, (in spite of Republican attempts at sabotage to try to prevent the economy from improving under a Democratic president.) Now Trump is deregulating again for that classic Republican market spike and conservatives are praying that what happened every single time in the past that Republicans attempted to gut the government and give big corporations free reign over the market doesn't happen this time.

What is that saying about the definition of "insanity," often attributed to Einstein?
Click to expand...

That is not what history shows. Democrats are always in control of Congress when recessions begin, and they always make them far worse than they need to be. The recession of 1974-1984 began with Democrats controlling Congress and the newly created OPEC causing the price of imported oil to increase. Then Democrats made it much worse by spending ridiculous amounts of taxpayer money, increasing unemployment beyond 10%, creating long-term interest rates above 18%, and created completely out of control inflation. The price of fuel alone increased by 400% between 1974 and 1980, and it was effecting everything else.

Then in 2008 the Democrats once again controlled Congress when the recession begins, and they once again spend ridiculous amounts of taxpayer money on unconstitutional and illegal programs, all the illegal bail-outs and "Cash for Clunkers," just to name a few. Increasing unemployment beyond 10% once again, but thankfully we did not have the hikes in interest rates or inflation like we had during the 1974-1984 recession. Democrats killed the economy between 2008-2016. We were lucky if we could manage more than 1% growth in the GDP while Obama was President. The recession of 2008-2016 that was caused by Democrats was not as bad as the 1974-1984 recession that was also caused by Democrats.

Recessions are not caused by deregulation, they are caused by irresponsible spending by Democrats in Congress. Which is why they always begin when Democrats control Congress. Even the smallest recession from 1989 until 1991 was caused by Democrats who controlled both houses of Congress.

So unless Democrats manage to take control of both houses of Congress again, we don't have to worry about recessions for the foreseeable future.
 
Last edited:
Redress said:
Recession refers to GDP growth(or lack thereof). Stock market is not an indicator of economic growth. Stock market is at almost the exact same place as 1 year ago(hint: that is not good).
Click to expand...

Approaching ANOTHER record high.

Out of curiosity, how many DJIA record high closes were posted in Obama's first term?

How does that compare to Trump's first term?
 
noonereal said:
26,616 on Jan 26 2018
27,182 on Sept 12 2019

That is 500 points in 20 months. That is flat.

Don't be a boob. Think for yourself.

It look at teh debt it took for these 500 points.

Net, we lost. Big time.
Click to expand...

Stock markets are a forward looking indicator.

When stocks go up, it means that the investors are hopeful. When they go down, it means hope is on the wane.

Regarding DJIA closes,

September 2013: 14,801

September 2016: 18,396 (gain of 3,595)

September 2019: 27, 182 (gain of 8,786)

In the real world, the rate of increase in the DJIA following the election of Trump seems to have more than doubled to date.



Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) Interactive Stock Chart
 
Redress said:
Since stock markets tend to go up, hitting a record is a surprisingly common thing. If you take a look at charts, you will see the last year has not been great for stocks.
Click to expand...

Very true.

Trump's trade war has been a pretty severe drag on the stock markets. Every time he issues another Tweet, it seems to impact the Stock Averages.

If his approach to China Trade Abuses was the same as Obama's, the DJIA would probably be over 30,000.

As it is, the traders are wary.

Closing milestones of the Dow Jones Industrial Average - Wikipedia
 
Keepmcrying2020 said:
When the stock market dipped all liberals were claiming a recession is coming .
Click to expand...

Liberals were claiming a world wide depression from which there would be no chance of recovery, ever, would occur if Trump got elected.

It seems like the Liberals are starting to gain trust in the policies of the President.

A national recession vs a world wide depression from which there would be no recovery is a real move to the optimistic side of the predictions.
 
Casper said:
Sorry to burst your wishful bubble but the odds are a Recession is in the cards, how bad is debatable, does not look good for the Donald. Oh and markets are not a good thing to base your claim on, markets can drop through the floor in one day, has happened many times
Click to expand...

Wow!

You're one of those "The glass is completely empty" types, aren't you.
 
Redress said:
Since stock markets tend to go up, hitting a record is a surprisingly common thing. If you take a look at charts, you will see the last year has not been great for stocks.
Click to expand...
Ayup. To wit;

9EF39182-DD6C-4506-86F8-900B9D630292.jpg
 
The last almost two years...

1.jpg
 
Casca XV said:
What alternate reality are you in?
Click to expand...

Wow

This is fact so listen up.

20 months of a stagnate, flat market has never before been called "great." Ever. In the history of our country,

As I said, this is FACT.

--------------------

I swear, it just hit me. Fact has no meaning to Trumpets. I was about to hit reply when this dawned on me. Fact really has no meaning to you.

What a freakin world, times we are living through.
 
code1211 said:
Stock markets are a forward looking indicator.

When stocks go up, it means that the investors are hopeful. When they go down, it means hope is on the wane.

Regarding DJIA closes,

September 2013: 14,801

September 2016: 18,396 (gain of 3,595)

September 2019: 27, 182 (gain of 8,786)

In the real world, the rate of increase in the DJIA following the election of Trump seems to have more than doubled to date.



Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI) Interactive Stock Chart
Click to expand...

Dude, the market has been stagnate for 20 months. This in spite of the tax cut.

This is not a good performance by any standard.

and another thing, post the %'s and use proper time periods.

Your post is essentially hog wash as is.
 
code1211 said:
Wow!

You're one of those "The glass is completely empty" types, aren't you.
Click to expand...

Nope, it is what being a realist is, wishing ain't getting and it does prevent events from occuring either. We shall see what happens.
 
Glitch said:
That is not what history shows. Democrats are always in control of Congress when recessions begin, and they always make them far worse than they need to be. The recession of 1974-1984 began with Democrats controlling Congress and the newly created OPEC causing the price of imported oil to increase. Then Democrats made it much worse by spending ridiculous amounts of taxpayer money, increasing unemployment beyond 10%, creating long-term interest rates above 18%, and created completely out of control inflation. The price of fuel alone increased by 400% between 1974 and 1980, and it was effecting everything else.

Then in 2008 the Democrats once again controlled Congress when the recession begins, and they once again spend ridiculous amounts of taxpayer money on unconstitutional and illegal programs, all the illegal bail-outs and "Cash for Clunkers," just to name a few. Increasing unemployment beyond 10% once again, but thankfully we did not have the hikes in interest rates or inflation like we had during the 1974-1984 recession. Democrats killed the economy between 2008-2016. We were lucky if we could manage more than 1% growth in the GDP while Obama was President. The recession of 2008-2016 that was caused by Democrats was not as bad as the 1974-1984 recession that was also caused by Democrats.

Recessions are not caused by deregulation, they are caused by irresponsible spending by Democrats in Congress. Which is why they always begin when Democrats control Congress. Even the smallest recession from 1989 until 1991 was caused by Democrats who controlled both houses of Congress.

So unless Democrats manage to take control of both houses of Congress again, we don't have to worry about recessions for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...

This is a common misconception on the right. Recessions begin in the early stages of Democrat control because Republicans have always left them with an unsustainable economy. Democrat spending does NOT cause recessions, as they spend a tiny fraction of the entire value of the U.S. economy. What causes recessions are unregulated business practices designed to maximize profits. Yes, profitable business is good, but the problem with this is that businesses profit at the expense of the buying power of the consumer. The unregulated pursuit of profits is self defeating because profits cannot be sustained when consumer buying power is steadily dropping. Republicans make the mistake of subsidizing these corporate profits in order to protect those profits from steadily falling consumer buying power. This eventually results in a situation where even giving tax dollars to these companies with zero regulations can't save them, as we are seeing in some areas of the auto and manufacturing industries. This is when you get a recession, and this is an unsustainable way to run an economy.

Democrats are the recovery effort of recessions because they raise taxes on businesses and enforce burdensome regulations that prevent too much profit in order to subsidize consumers, which is the smart move: Consumers with extra spending money put that money right back into the market, and that money amounts to far, far more than the extra taxes the government collects directly from business. Republicans need to learn that government regulation and taxes might cut into their profits next year, but they assure those profits will continue to grow at a sustainable pace far into the future. Democrats are better for business in the long term and prevent recessions. Republicans just subsidize unsuccessful businesses in order to give them a good few quarters, wait until the economy is on the verge of bursting, and then switch to anti-Democrat propaganda when the people panic about the economy and elect a Democrat to clean up the mess they made by voting Republican 4 years ago.
 
Last edited:
noonereal said:
Wow

This is fact so listen up.

20 months of a stagnate, flat market has never before been called "great." Ever. In the history of our country,

As I said, this is FACT.

--------------------

I swear, it just hit me. Fact has no meaning to Trumpets. I was about to hit reply when this dawned on me. Fact really has no meaning to you.

What a freakin world, times we are living through.
Click to expand...

Even Trump hating WAPO disagrees with you. This article is them acknowledging the record highs and hoping they will end. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...markets-are-reacting-to-the-trump-presidency/
 
code1211 said:
Approaching ANOTHER record high.

Out of curiosity, how many DJIA record high closes were posted in Obama's first term?

How does that compare to Trump's first term?
Click to expand...

Cut it out. You know the economic mess Obama inherited. Trump walked in on the most robust recovery in recent memory.
Do you think you can baffle everyone here with bull****?
 
noonereal said:
If you like 20 months of complete stagnation, sure.

I have never before, in my entire life, heard of a flat market being called "great."

Trumpism, complete bull****.
Click to expand...
Over 40% since Trump was elected - that stagnation is within 5% of the highest level ever. Ever hear a of a market gaining 40% being called stagnant? Oh, buy the way that market also high close to 100 all time highs in those 36 months.


You wanna see a stagnating market


Capture.jpg

check out the 2015-2016 pool table. Notice that upward jump in early November of 2016 - something positive and dramatic must have happened.
 
Bullseye said:
Over 40% since Trump was elected - that stagnation is within 5% of the highest level ever. Ever hear a of a market gaining 40% being called stagnant? Oh, buy the way that market also high close to 100 all time highs in those 36 months.


You wanna see a stagnating market


View attachment 67263718

check out the 2015-2016 pool table. Notice that upward jump in early November of 2016 - something positive and dramatic must have happened.
Click to expand...

Keep things in perspective. While there is absolutely no doubt that the economy began to spring to life again with the election of Trump, it has not rebounded by as much as it should.

A normal healthy economy has an annual average GDP between 3% and 5%. Anything above 5% annual growth is considered a "booming" economy, which the US has not seen since 2005. Trump's election changed our stagnant 0% to 2% annual GDP growth to an overall average of 2.63% annual growth in the GDP. An improvement, to be sure, but not as significant as you are suggesting. There have only been 4 of the last 10 quarters with a GDP above 3%.

It certainly hasn't been like the recovery we saw under Reagan in 1985. We truly had a "booming" economy with greater than 6% annual growth in the GDP. This recovery since Trump was elected has been very limp in comparison.
 
Last edited:
Casca XV said:
Even Trump hating WAPO disagrees with you. This article is them acknowledging the record highs and hoping they will end. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...markets-are-reacting-to-the-trump-presidency/
Click to expand...

What is it you don't understand about "flat?"

20 months.

This is FACT. 20 months. Flat, stagnant.

This, in spite of BLOWING up the deficit. This was a failure. This is a fact. A failure. Crawl that deep into debt with ZERO return. FAILURE.Fact.

Get the hell off the propaganda pipe.
 
Bullseye said:
Over 40% since Trump was elected - that stagnation is within 5% of the highest level ever. Ever hear a of a market gaining 40% being called stagnant? Oh, buy the way that market also high close to 100 all time highs in those 36 months.


You wanna see a stagnating market


View attachment 67263718

check out the 2015-2016 pool table. Notice that upward jump in early November of 2016 - something positive and dramatic must have happened.
Click to expand...

20 months of stagnation at the expense of a trillion dollar deficit.

Smarten up!
 
noonereal said:
20 months of stagnation at the expense of a trillion dollar deficit.

Smarten up!
Click to expand...
I'm smart enough to recognize partisan poppycock when I see it. Trump was elected 35 months ago - compare THAT time frame instead of cherry picking.
 
noonereal said:
20 months of stagnation at the expense of a trillion dollar deficit.

Smarten up!
Click to expand...


The Trump tax cuts and reduced regulations have created a booming economy that has increased Federal tax revenue to record highs. So, The President doing his part.

The problem is it’s the Democrat lead Congress that controls most of the Government spending that is causing the current Federal Deficit and Debt.

Govt Deficits & Debt and the Private Sector Economy are not tied together. Except that high taxes and strict regulations hurts the economy and reducing each helps it.
 
noonereal said:
What is it you don't understand about "flat?"

20 months.

This is FACT. 20 months. Flat, stagnant.

This, in spite of BLOWING up the deficit. This was a failure. This is a fact. A failure. Crawl that deep into debt with ZERO return. FAILURE.Fact.

Get the hell off the propaganda pipe.
Click to expand...

The chart from Bullseye that you answered in #47 destroys this assertion of yours. My response in #49 your #47 response.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom