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Guarenteed Losers in 2020 I'm sorry for Dems

Chaddelamancha said:
How does a "life-long democrat" ever vote for Donald Trump?
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Mmmmmmm......lets see.

They came to there senses?

Or maybe the thought of voting for that lying, corrupt, incompetent horrible evil old woman was simply too much to bear and Donald Trump was the only other choice? ???
 
AlbqOwl said:
We need to teach honest and responsible basic economic principles in the public schools and in the universities again. Wealth cannot be increased by dividing it. Nor is wealth inequality remedied much or for long by dividing wealth and generally results in more exploitation of the poor and more power transferred to the wealthy and the poor becoming even more poor.
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But the New Deal was the remedy for unregulated capitalism
 
AlbqOwl said:
The word 'fascism' comes from the Latin 'fasces, an object of wooden rods bound together by usually red straps and including an axe head. The wooden rod represents the weak individual whose sole contribution is to provide strength to the State. The axe representes the State and its ability to defend the state.

The common and most prevalent characteristic of fascism is nationalism rooted in adoration of and unwavering obedience to the state. The number one objective of fascism is the absolute authority and power of the state. Toward that end, the state controls the means of production, the media, and what the people are allowed to express of what they think, believe, or promote. Any contrary thought/speech/belief is to be suppressed by any means necessary.

In its extreme, the fascist state will dictate what property the people may own, how much of what they earn they can keep, and how they are expected to organize their societies and live their lives.

All that that is 100% antithesis to any attitudes or promotion of the right. What I just described is leftism in its most extreme form.
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aka: Communism
 
jondo said:
When I was over on Yabberz I spoke a lot about the political bifurcation of morality. As a lifelong Democrat who voted for Trump I posted for wealth redistribution and against abortion, GLBT rights, euthanasia, gun control. After Bernie's loss to Hillary I spoke a lot about the need for the Democrats to conduct an autopsy. They still need to do that.

The anti-liberal moment - Vox
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I'm a lifelong Republican and I was forced to vote for Hillary because the GOP has moved so far to the loony bin right.
 
Lucky 1 said:
Mmmmmmm......lets see.

They came to there senses?

Or maybe the thought of voting for that lying, corrupt, incompetent horrible evil old woman was simply too much to bear and Donald Trump was the only other choice? ???
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Their senses.

So, instead, they voted for a lying, corrupt, incompetent horrible evil old man?
 
jondo said:
But the New Deal was the remedy for unregulated capitalism
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Not really. Social security was not intended to support anybody but simply to keep old folks from starving in a severely depressed economy. FDR's works program was to get people back to work but was not intended to be a lifelong solution for unemployment. The New Deal was to address the Depression and its effects on people and to relieve some of the extreme hardship. And it was effective for many in the short term.

Unfortunately, it so corrupted the intent of the Constitution and put so much power in the hands of the central government that it started a dangerous snowball rolling downhill. As the founders warned, once the government perceived it had the power to bribe people into voting, that would become its primary focus. That snowball has been gaining velocity and mass ever since until now the government has power it was never ever intended to have, and the people are dependent on it in a way they were never supposed to be.

President Trump has been doing his best to reverse some of that. But it still takes precedence over everything else.
 
jondo said:
aka: Communism
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No. Communism technically is the Marxist view of Utopia, i.e. a society that naturally exists in harmony for the common good without need of enforcement.

Fascist totalitarianism is the state that has to exist before communism can exist. It can pretend to be communistic and call itself that, but it is fascist totalitarianism just the same:
--the central goverment is all powerful with no restrictions on its power.
--the government owns or controls the means of production, education, all institutions including scientific ones, and dictates what resources the people are allowed to have and use, how the people will live and work and what they are allowed express of what they think, believe, observe, etc.

No government that has achieved a state of fascist totalitarianism is likely to willingly give it up without serious bloodshed.
 
AlbqOwl said:
No. Communism technically is the Marxist view of Utopia, i.e. a society that naturally exists in harmony for the common good without need of enforcement.

Fascist totalitarianism is the state that has to exist before communism can exist. It can pretend to be communistic and call itself that, but it is fascist totalitarianism just the same:
--the central goverment is all powerful with no restrictions on its power.
--the government owns or controls the means of production, education, all institutions including scientific ones, and dictates what resources the people are allowed to have and use, how the people will live and work and what they are allowed express of what they think, believe, observe, etc.

No government that has achieved a state of fascist totalitarianism is likely to willingly give it up without serious bloodshed.
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technically and practically are two different things. Technically was just the sales pitch. I think that Marx was attempting his mental idea of what he believe christian brotherhood should be. He disposed of Christ and adopted violence in his place
 
AlbqOwl said:
Not really. Social security was not intended to support anybody but simply to keep old folks from starving in a severely depressed economy. FDR's works program was to get people back to work but was not intended to be a lifelong solution for unemployment. The New Deal was to address the Depression and its effects on people and to relieve some of the extreme hardship. And it was effective for many in the short term.

Unfortunately, it so corrupted the intent of the Constitution and put so much power in the hands of the central government that it started a dangerous snowball rolling downhill. As the founders warned, once the government perceived it had the power to bribe people into voting, that would become its primary focus. That snowball has been gaining velocity and mass ever since until now the government has power it was never ever intended to have, and the people are dependent on it in a way they were never supposed to be.

President Trump has been doing his best to reverse some of that. But it still takes precedence over everything else.
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SS was intended to:

"We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age."--
President Roosevelt upon signing Social Security Act

the 1% have since the utterance of these words have been attempting to claw back what is in hard times is a Right to Life from the destitute.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Interesting article. As it is quite lengthy I didn't take time to read the whole thing at this time--got a lot of irons in the fire this morning--but I did pick up on the theme that the current neo-liberalism that is modern American liberalism is in fact not at all liberal. Where you find the closest manifestations of liberalism, i.e. the classical liberalism or libertarianism of the Founders, is mostly in modern American conservatism.
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I'm afraid you're stuck with the term 'libertarianism', which is completely separate from liberalism. Trying to say that America was founded on libertarian ideas, or that libertarians are the TRUE liberals, is simply a losing argument with no basis in reality.

And I agree with the author that that neoliberalism we are seeing manifested in America these days is dedicated to tear down religious faith, family, fathers, personal responsibility and initiative, and create an obedient politically correct society united in a group think and sense of purpose.
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Neoliberalism has nothing to do with any of this. Neoliberalism is a conservative-based economic philosophy.

What I think the author missed is the group think and sense of purpose, i.e. duty to conform and submit to the duty and sense of moral righteousness to be a new socioeconomic utopia they fuzzily image but can neither define nor defend, is a dangerous thing.

The author missed that the phenomenon has always before and will again accomplish a total ubmission of the people to an all powerful oligarchy/government that they think will create that utopia. But it will result in a socialist fascist government. The people have been able to oppose few such governments without serious bloodshed.

It is scary.
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Socialism has nothing to do with fascism, neoliberalism has nothing to do with socialism, an oligarchy has nothing to do with an socialism, and if you look to the roots of fascism you're going to be disappointed with its strong association with right-wing ideology.
 
MovingPictures said:
You were obviously not a Democrat and are just saying that to give your points more legitimacy.
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There's been a big shift with Democrats - many more conservative ('blue dog') democrats no longer feel a place in the party. I doubt that people like LBJ or JFK would feel welcome in the party today.

AND... Hillary was a horrible candidate.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
How does a "life-long democrat" ever vote for Donald Trump?
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Easy. Leans liberal but also leans racist. Feels Whites are being victimized.

Also, some fell for Trump's BS about blaming China, NAFTA and the elites (as if he's not an elite).

Bill Clinton betrayed a lot of Democrats with NAFTA. He could have done more to help the Rust belt after NAFTA. Historically, NAFTA and free trades were pushed by Republicans. It's Dems who voted against it. Bill forced it through.
 
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