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Family separation...

nitroexpress said:
Of course Wikipedia has never been known to be biased. :tongue4:

"As immigration became the driving force behind unending U.S. population growth, John Tanton founded FAIR - the Federation for American Immigration Reform. He is publisher and former editor of The Social Contract. John Tanton is pro immigrant and pro legal immigration, but at reduced, sustainable numbers."
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Yes, and he was also a eugenicist and white nationalist. And CIS creates studies against immigrants and immigration, legal and illegal. Anyway the study isn't about massive fraud. It's about non-citizen legal use of aid programs. It doesn't support any claims that immigrants are cheating the government.
 
Fledermaus said:
Illegal immigrants coached on how to avoid deportation - Washington Times
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Yeah, Washington Times, now there's an unbiased site. If Democrats aren't allowed to use Rachel Maddow, Huffington Post and CNN as sources then conservatives don't get to use Washington Times.

The article tells about people advising illegal immigrants on how not to get caught. Their 7 minute video is not a available to the public so it's not clear what they are advising but from the Times article they seem to be giving them information they are legally entitled to know. These advisors seem to be addressing the DACA 's who have a unfair and uncertain status and green card holders who are legally in the US.

Jeff Sessions was correct when he said, "California law now requires immigration consequences to be factored into criminal cases. The state has also passed a law allowing people to erase or revise old convictions if they successfully argue that they were not advised at the time that a guilty or no-contest plea would endanger their immigration status".(WSJ and NYT). I agree, this is wrong and should stop. Unfortunately this is what happens when there are gross breeches of common sense and Republicans refuse to deal with the problem of children of illegal parents. Bad laws create bad reactions.

Clean up the situation of DACAs and most of these non-legal circumventions of the law will end.
 
The fact is there is a solution to the immigration problem but it requires honesty about why our immigration laws are designed the way they are today, common sense instead of vindictiveness in re-structuring those immigration laws, some of the billions being spent on a symbolic wall and an easing up of the hating on DACA people.

Oh, yeah and it would help if we would stop the social, economic, military and political meddling in other countries that's creating the the refugees and asylum seekers.
 
weaver2 said:
Nobody, not Democrats, liberals, politicians, pundits or editors are shaming, denigrating, or labeling you for the type of suggestions you made above What is getting conservatives in trouble is their support for stupidities like:
* multiple billions for a symbolic wall that will solve not one single immigration problem.
*the support for conservative media's ugly and almost always untrue propaganda about immigrants, legal and illegal
*the name calling
* support for the unnecessarily brutal treatment of children of immigrants
* the idiotic insistence that Democrats are for open borders.
*the unreasonableness of denying children of illegal immigrants some sort of reasonable path to citizenship
*the arrest of illegal workers but never the corporations that hire them.

But most of all conservatives are called down because of your support of McConnell and the refusal to work toward re-structuring immigration laws or to budget personnel to alleviate the backlog while blaming Democrats for the problems with immigration.
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* multiple billions for a symbolic wall that will solve not one single immigration problem. opinion/wrong
*the support for conservative media's ugly and almost always untrue propaganda about immigrants, legal and illegal opinion/wrong
*the name calling documentation needed/opinion
* support for the unnecessarily brutal treatment of children of immigrants opinion/wrong/baseless
* the idiotic insistence that Democrats are for open borders. Dem policies support such
*the unreasonableness of denying children of illegal immigrants some sort of reasonable path to citizenship no anchor baby allowance needed
*the arrest of illegal workers but never the corporations that hire them. longstanding policy supported by both parties
 
nitroexpress said:
* multiple billions for a symbolic wall that will solve not one single immigration problem. opinion/wrong
*the support for conservative media's ugly and almost always untrue propaganda about immigrants, legal and illegal opinion/wrong
*the name calling documentation needed/opinion
* support for the unnecessarily brutal treatment of children of immigrants opinion/wrong/baseless
* the idiotic insistence that Democrats are for open borders. Dem policies support such
*the unreasonableness of denying children of illegal immigrants some sort of reasonable path to citizenship no anchor baby allowance needed
*the arrest of illegal workers but never the corporations that hire them. longstanding policy supported by both parties
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Yes, those are my opinions.

Actually the wall is not an opinion. Experts in immigration control have said what they need is more personnel, better remote surveillance, faster processing, better facilities for housing, walls around heavily trafficked border crossing areas to funnel border crossing into official entry points and a re-structuring and clarification of immigration law.

Help yourself to a beg scoop of denial. Keep telling us how Trump is working for you. That will make Democrats stop labeling.
 
weaver2 said:
Yes, those are my opinions.

Actually the wall is not an opinion. Experts in immigration control have said what they need is more personnel, better remote surveillance, faster processing, better facilities for housing, walls around heavily trafficked border crossing areas to funnel border crossing into official entry points and a re-structuring and clarification of immigration law.

Help yourself to a beg scoop of denial. Keep telling us how Trump is working for you. That will make Democrats stop labeling.
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Too many past and present border patrol people put the lie to your assertion. People on the front lines and not driving a desk all say the wall is and will help.
 
mrjurrs said:
...and in our names, America continues to separate children from their parents. Did anyone ever agree that the price our country should pay to deport undocumented immigrants includes children in a plant parking lot waiting for their parents who will never come out, or the drowning death of a father and his baby girl on the shores of our land of the free and the home of the brave? Is part of the price the creation of a generation of kids that will suffer from the complete range of mental illnesses we KNOW result from the very treatment young children receive in our immigration system.

Immigration is a political issue. Migration is a Human Rights issue. Do something.
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When people are arrested for breaking the law, they are almost always separated from their children.

I wonder if Dems are going to cry about all the child separation that will happen when people are arrested for breaking the stupid new gun laws they want to pass.
 
weaver2 said:
Yes, those are my opinions.

Actually the wall is not an opinion. Experts in immigration control have said what they need is more personnel, better remote surveillance, faster processing, better facilities for housing, walls around heavily trafficked border crossing areas to funnel border crossing into official entry points and a re-structuring and clarification of immigration law.

Help yourself to a beg scoop of denial. Keep telling us how Trump is working for you. That will make Democrats stop labeling.
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I'm confused, you say walls won't help but then admit that the "experts" agree that walls help. Are you arguing against yourself?
 
Nap said:
I'm confused, you say walls won't help but then admit that the "experts" agree that walls help. Are you arguing against yourself?
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Sorry that wasn't clear at all. Experts have said that a continuous wall for 2000 miles along the border won't work. However in heavily populated areas around an entry point into the US, a length I think about a mile or 2 of wall either side of the entry point is useful. I tends to funnel people toward the entry point.
 
nitroexpress said:
Too many past and present border patrol people put the lie to your assertion. People on the front lines and not driving a desk all say the wall is and will help.
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Cato Institute
Why the Wall Won’t Work
By David Bier
This article appeared in the May 2017 issue of Reason.

Rand Corporation
What a border wall can and cannot accomplish
by Raphael S. Cohen

Migration Policy Institute Senior Fellow Fact-Checks Trump's Border Wall Claims : NPR

Experts say there's fix to Trump's border 'crisis.' It's not a wall. - Business Insider
 
Family separation ...and in our names, America continues to separate children from their parents.
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iow, actions have consequences.
 
weaver2 said:
Cato Institute
Why the Wall Won’t Work
By David Bier
This article appeared in the May 2017 issue of Reason.

Rand Corporation
What a border wall can and cannot accomplish
by Raphael S. Cohen

Migration Policy Institute Senior Fellow Fact-Checks Trump's Border Wall Claims : NPR

Experts say there's fix to Trump's border 'crisis.' It's not a wall. - Business Insider
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You have listed Eggheads on parade. Talk to the boots on the ground.

Head Of Border Patrol Union Weighs In On Trump's Wall Plans
Head Of Border Patrol Union Weighs In On Trump's Wall Plans : NPR
 
nitroexpress said:
You have listed Eggheads on parade. Talk to the boots on the ground.

Head Of Border Patrol Union Weighs In On Trump's Wall Plans
Head Of Border Patrol Union Weighs In On Trump's Wall Plans : NPR
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Only the first two citations are from 'eggheads' who by the way probably consulted border people and policy people and people that deal with the census, survey people. Think tankers are usually pretty intelligent people who know how to find the people and numbers needed to understand a situation.

The two second links are from people involved in border control or border patrol people

(Judd:I don't think it's going to be - well, OK, it's going to be a lot more secure. But what we're talking about is we're talking about a wall in strategic locations. We're not talking about a great wall of the United States. We're not talking about a continuous wall from California down to Texas. We're talking about a wall in strategic locations which then helps the Border Patrol agents do their job better.)

The wall Trump is promoting is a stupid, expensive, useless, monument to conservatives misplaced anger over illegal immigration.

The number one way to stop illegal immigration is to start putting the people that hire them in jail.
 
weaver2 said:
But they didn't steal a car, did they? They sought asylum. Seeking asylum is not illegal.
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Seeking asylum is indeed not illegal. However, crossing the border at a place other than a port of entry (as thousands have been doing) is illegal. (See: 8 USC 1325(a))

Taking kids away from parents for no reason is illegal.
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It is not only not illegal, it is mandated. An asylum claimant is required to be detained pending consideration of their claim per 8 USC 1225(b)(1)(B)(ii). A child may not be kept in detention longer than three weeks per the Flores agreement. These two mandates cannot be reconciled in such a way that keeps parent and child together.
 
weaver2 said:
The wall Trump is promoting is a stupid, expensive, useless, monument to conservatives misplaced anger over illegal immigration.

The number one way to stop illegal immigration is to start putting the people that hire them in jail.
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You can send illegals back AND build the wall that the boots on the ground say is working. If that doesn't work, I suggest .50 calibers.
 
swing_voter said:
If they stole a car and they had kids, the cops would take the kids away from them before putting them in jail. This is true pretty much in every country all over the world.
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Do you think illegally crossing the boarder is the equivalent to grand theft? No better no worse?

If you get a DUI do they take your kids away?
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Seeking asylum is indeed not illegal. However, crossing the border at a place other than a port of entry (as thousands have been doing) is illegal. (See: 8 USC 1325(a))


It is not only not illegal, it is mandated. An asylum claimant is required to be detained pending consideration of their claim per 8 USC 1225(b)(1)(B)(ii). A child may not be kept in detention longer than three weeks per the Flores agreement. These two mandates cannot be reconciled in such a way that keeps parent and child together.
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2 things, the current administration has closed ports of entry to brown people seeking asylum (ports of entry outside of the southern border are still open) and second, illegal border crossing became a criminal charge during this administration. Previously it was a civil violation.
 
Huey Freeman said:
White people lack empathy and compassion for anyone except the people who look like themselves. (Cite: New study: White people lack empathy across the socioeconomic spectrum | Salon.com) When you combine this inborn, socially cultivated lack of empathy and compassion with the anonymity of the Internet, you have what Malcolm X aptly described as "white devils". In fact, white people derive happiness and enjoyment in the misery of others (especially people of color). White people are the only people on the planet where you can show them suffering and they do not bat an eyelash. They are, for all intents and purposes, ambulatory monsters who feed off the misery and suffering of others.
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This doesn't make me feel any better...
 
SDET said:
Would that be separation from their REAL parents or the "parents" that rented them to gain immigration benefits? Lack of immigration law enforcement CAUSES trafficking of children.
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There are probably some trafficked kids, but just because a child goes without their parents doesn't mean they are being trafficked. The fear of not using their 'real' parents is a talking point, not an actual significant issue.
 
Drawdown said:
I was speaking to MS13 in the post you interjected yourself in. If you are not aware of the context of what was being discussed, perhaps you should take the time to read instead of jumping to assumptions. And we don't need them here.
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First, I started this thread so I'm not interjecting anything. Second, you brought up MS-13, and it is apparent that you have no real understanding of how they became a problem for the US.
 
Mason66 said:
Point out what danger the man was in while staying on the Mexican side. I mean actual danger, not something invented by the media.
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Gangs, extortionists, pimps. Theirs is not a singular story, it is the reality of the Mexican side of the border in these point of entry cities.
 
joko104 said:
You mean how children are separated from a parent put in jail or prison and you want children jailed with adults? Wow!

People used to be outraged when juveniles were put in with adults and the the juvenile is gang raped and otherwise assaulted. I guess that is in fashion now in the Democratic Party.
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Parents are not generally jailed for misdemeanor violations. They may eventually be sent to jail, but not immediately. That means that there is an ability to care for the child without putting them in cages.
 
Great, what did he do?
 
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