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Family separation...

marke said:
America's message to the world: "Do not come here unannounced and expect us to take you in and care for you and your family for the rest of your lives. We have rules which must be followed. We have laws which must be enforced. We do not have housing units into which we can keep you and your family together while we decide what to do with the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants flooding into our country at the present. You and your family likely will end up separated and we don't know for how long. You could get killed or robbed or abused along the way by thugs. Use some common sense. Follow the rules. Those rules are for the protection of you and your family."
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You are apparently not aware that the crime rate of immigrants legal and illegal is lower than the crime rate of Americans. Their unemployment rate is lower, also. It is not true that we "take care of immigrants for the rest of their lives". If you think it is true, post the quotes and sources that show it. You can't.

You want rules followed? Quit pretending that those applying for asylum are illegal immigrants and treating them as such. It is legal to apply for asylum. These people are not criminals.

Being the same person oh so concerned about "little lives" that you call women who get abortions "baby killers" and "murderers" . Why no concern about the little lives we are separating from parents, incarcerating and abusing. How can that possibly be following rules?
 
Barnacle said:
Nobody is stopping you from going down to the border and sponsoring a handful of "immigrants" and taking them home with you.
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That's would be a nice gesture but it doesn't address the fact that we are we are treating as criminals people legally seeking asylum, separating them from their children, incarcerating them, and in many cases physically, sexually or psychologically abusing them. We have a national crisis and gestures don't fix a crisis
 
weaver2 said:
You are apparently not aware that the crime rate of immigrants legal and illegal is lower than the crime rate of Americans. Their unemployment rate is lower, also. It is not true that we "take care of immigrants for the rest of their lives". If you think it is true, post the quotes and sources that show it. You can't.
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Illegals are not allowed to work so somebody has to take care of them.

You want rules followed? Quit pretending that those applying for asylum are illegal immigrants and treating them as such. It is legal to apply for asylum. These people are not criminals.

Being the same person oh so concerned about "little lives" that you call women who get abortions "baby killers" and "murderers" . Why no concern about the little lives we are separating from parents, incarcerating and abusing. How can that possibly be following rules?
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If you want to talk about separating children from their parents, consider a "family" court system that doesn't penalize denial of visitation and parental alienation.

mrjurrs said:
...and in our names, America continues to separate children from their parents. Did anyone ever agree that the price our country should pay to deport undocumented immigrants includes children in a plant parking lot waiting for their parents who will never come out, or the drowning death of a father and his baby girl on the shores of our land of the free and the home of the brave? Is part of the price the creation of a generation of kids that will suffer from the complete range of mental illnesses we KNOW result from the very treatment young children receive in our immigration system.

Immigration is a political issue. Migration is a Human Rights issue. Do something.
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Many of those asylum claims are frivolous, coached by open borders advocates and the children are rented for the purposes of entering the country.

weaver2 said:
That's would be a nice gesture but it doesn't address the fact that we are we are treating as criminals people legally seeking asylum, separating them from their children, incarcerating them, and in many cases physically, sexually or psychologically abusing them. We have a national crisis and gestures don't fix a crisis
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SDET said:
Many of those asylum claims are frivolous, coached by open borders advocates and the children are rented for the purposes of entering the country.
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How about documenting that.
 
marke said:
Illegals are not allowed to work so somebody has to take care of them.
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Why do you keep making statements like the above that simply are not true and can be easily checked by googling.

"Unauthorized immigrant men are more likely than U.S.-born men to be in the labor force. Among those ages 18 to 64, 91% of unauthorized immigrant men and 79% of U.S.-born men were in the workforce in 2016. Most of the difference is because higher shares of U.S.-born men are in school, disabled or retired, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of census data."

(from Pew Research Center , November, 2018)
 
weaver2 said:
Why do you keep making statements like the above that simply are not true and can be easily checked by googling.

"Unauthorized immigrant men are more likely than U.S.-born men to be in the labor force. Among those ages 18 to 64, 91% of unauthorized immigrant men and 79% of U.S.-born men were in the workforce in 2016. Most of the difference is because higher shares of U.S.-born men are in school, disabled or retired, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of census data."

(from Pew Research Center , November, 2018)
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I know illegals are working in the US. I have hired several illegals over the past 20 years. I was just saying that it is against the law for them to work here without government permission and that is not guaranteed.
 
marke said:
I know illegals are working in the US. I have hired several illegals over the past 20 years. I was just saying that it is against the law for them to work here without government permission and that is not guaranteed.
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That is absolutely notwhat you said. You said


America's message to the world: "Do not come here unannounced and expect us to take you in and care for you and your family for the rest of your lives. ...... We do not have housing units into which we can keep you and your family together while we decide what to do with the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants flooding into our country at the present. .....
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marke said:
Illegals are not allowed to work so somebody has to take care of them.
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Nobody is taking care of illegals and certainly not for the rest of their lives. Who is telling you this stuff?
 
Immigration -- It’s simple. When push comes to shove, my family comes first. It's natural that many millions would want to experience America. To diminish myself and family, to lower my standard of living is a tough sell for me. I reject the blanket Democratic mantra of "immigration” makes us great. Actually, only some types make us great. find a need and fill it. If the country needs more Landscapers, then unrestricted immigration can fill that need. If the country needs Nuclear Physicists, then general immigration will not. A sane policy is one of "skill based" immigration. Works for Australia, should work for us.
The Democrats will shame me, they will denigrate me, they will label me, they will call me "deplorable." But as I believe in “America First”, so do I believe in family first.
 
weaver2 said:
Why do you keep making statements like the above that simply are not true and can be easily checked by googling.

"Unauthorized immigrant men are more likely than U.S.-born men to be in the labor force. Among those ages 18 to 64, 91% of unauthorized immigrant men and 79% of U.S.-born men were in the workforce in 2016. Most of the difference is because higher shares of U.S.-born men are in school, disabled or retired, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of census data."

(from Pew Research Center , November, 2018)
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63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs | Center for Immigration Studies
 
nitroexpress said:
MASSIVE asylum fraud
MASSIVE asylum fraud: Central American kids being ‘recycled’ as family members to cheat U.S. immigration system, Border Patrol says
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"Massive asylum fraud". There is no way of knowing whether a massive number of families are doing this or just a few because there is not enough information. According to Customs and Border Protection records, family units are up 374 percent from this same time last year throughout the southwest border.
“This is about the safety of children and that’s our first and foremost responsibility. In the last six months, we’ve identified over 3,000 families that were determined to be fraudulent,” a CBP report said.

Up 374% of what? 3,000 families represent what % of all families. All this article says is that some families are using fake children to get across the border.

If a writer is going to claim MASSIVE fraud, then they have to provide real numbers and enough of them to judge whether MASSIVE is the appropriate descriptor.

The National Sentinel is not an impartial news source. Most of their articles like the one above are opinion pieces with a few unrelated numbers to make it look like news not opinion.

Jon E.Doughtery and the various organizations for which he writes publish similar "news" articles that are designed to enrage not inform.

Jon E. Dougherty is a Staff Reporter for WND. (WorldNetDaily) and the author of Illegals: The Imminent Threat Posed by Our Unsecured U.S.-Mexico Border. WorldNetDaily is an American news and opinion website and online news aggregator which has been described as "fringe" and far right as well as politically conservative.The website is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories.


Jon Dougherty: contributing writer to the Cybercast News Service (CNSNews) heading motto “The right news right now”

Jon Dougherty: writes for True Conservateve Pundit (TCP) ”An oasis in a world of fake news. Making news make sense again”

Jon E Dougherty is Editor of http://TheNationalSentinel.com*; patriot, OEF veteran, #MAGA, TrumpPence 2020.

The National Sentinel “is a fiercely independent, non-corporate-owned news site dedicated to bringing our readers fresh, informative content*and the news of the day, without the*bias and political chicanery of the so-called “mainstream” media.” Presented by The National Sentinel (June 2018)

▪ Fit to Fight: A Prepper’s Guide to Extreme Fitness for All Ages — by J. D. Heyes
▪ A Less Perfect Union- Making a Case for Secession — by J. D. Heyes (June
▪ The Spygate Files: Timeline to the Biggest Political Scandal in American History
 
nitroexpress said:
MASSIVE asylum fraud Graham Explains Children Being 'Rented' to Help Migrants Claim Asylum
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This article posted on IJR (Independent Journal Review) a conservative news and opinion site is much better. It gives enough numbers so a reader can evaluate the enormity of the situation at the border. Senate Judiciary chairman said 100,000 unaccompanied minors had been apprehended. Lindsy Graham said DNA testing found 60 children who were not not related to the people claiming them as their children. Using the figures given 6/10ths of one percent of the children coming across that border are non-family members. Should that be considered massive?
(How do babies get back across the border to be rented again?)



In general, the statement "Many of those asylum claims are frivolous, coached by open borders advocates and the children are rented for the purposes of entering the country." has not been supported by either the National Sentinel nor the IJR. Frivolous reasons were not addressed at all
 
nitroexpress said:
Immigration -- It’s simple. When push comes to shove, my family comes first. It's natural that many millions would want to experience America. To diminish myself and family, to lower my standard of living is a tough sell for me. I reject the blanket Democratic mantra of "immigration” makes us great. Actually, only some types make us great. find a need and fill it. If the country needs more Landscapers, then unrestricted immigration can fill that need. If the country needs Nuclear Physicists, then general immigration will not. A sane policy is one of "skill based" immigration. Works for Australia, should work for us.
The Democrats will shame me, they will denigrate me, they will label me, they will call me "deplorable." But as I believe in “America First”, so do I believe in family first.
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Fine, family first, not sure how aid programs have diminished your families standard of living or why you think immigrants have not contributed to this country but you have a legitimate point about re-structuring our immigration laws. However none of this proves that illegal immigrants are defrauding the government by using aid programs they are not entitled to. The article that supposedly proves they are does no such thing.

First shoot the messenger:
The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers, and produces research to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham and John Tanton, a eugenicist and white nationalist. The foundation was founded in 1985 as a spin-off from the Federation for American Immigration Reform, and is one of a number of anti-immigration organizations founded by Tanton, along with FAIR and NumbersUSA.(from Wikipedia)

That said, CIS studies always use reliable data but they use it in such a way that it supports their agenda; in this study they are comparing native citizen use of aid programs with non-citizen use. It’s impossible to tell anything about illegal immigrant use since they are not separated out of the Non-citizen group. But the impression the article gives is that non-citizen=illegal immigrant.

“While most new legal immigrants (green card holders) are barred from most welfare programs, as are illegal immigrants and temporary visitors, these provisions have only a modest impact on non-citizen household use rates because: 1) most legal immigrants have been in the country long enough to qualify; 2) the bar does not apply to all programs, nor does it always apply to non-citizen children; 3) some states provide welfare to new immigrants on their own; and, most importantly, 4) non-citizens (including illegal immigrants) can receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children who are awarded U.S. citizenship and full welfare eligibility at birth.

Essentially this paragraph is saying that most of the non-citizens are using aid programs legally. If it’s legal then it isn’t fraud nor does the title of the article indicate fraud. So what is the article about? CIS always slips into their “research” articles the policy change they want made, just in case you weren’t able to figure it out and here it is:

“Using education levels and likely future income to determine the
probability of welfare use among new green card applicants and
denying permanent residency to those likely to utilize such programs
would almost certainly reduce welfare use among future permanent
residents.”

This is not the article you need to prove that illegal immigrants are
 
nitroexpress said:
Immigration -- It’s simple. When push comes to shove, my family comes first. It's natural that many millions would want to experience America. To diminish myself and family, to lower my standard of living is a tough sell for me. I reject the blanket Democratic mantra of "immigration” makes us great. Actually, only some types make us great. find a need and fill it. If the country needs more Landscapers, then unrestricted immigration can fill that need. If the country needs Nuclear Physicists, then general immigration will not. A sane policy is one of "skill based" immigration. Works for Australia, should work for us.
The Democrats will shame me, they will denigrate me, they will label me, they will call me "deplorable." But as I believe in “America First”, so do I believe in family first.
Click to expand...

Nobody, not Democrats, liberals, politicians, pundits or editors are shaming, denigrating, or labeling you for the type of suggestions you made above What is getting conservatives in trouble is their support for stupidities like:
* multiple billions for a symbolic wall that will solve not one single immigration problem.
*the support for conservative media's ugly and almost always untrue propaganda about immigrants, legal and illegal
*the name calling
* support for the unnecessarily brutal treatment of children of immigrants
* the idiotic insistence that Democrats are for open borders.
*the unreasonableness of denying children of illegal immigrants some sort of reasonable path to citizenship
*the arrest of illegal workers but never the corporations that hire them.

But most of all conservatives are called down because of your support of McConnell and the refusal to work toward re-structuring immigration laws or to budget personnel to alleviate the backlog while blaming Democrats for the problems with immigration.
 
weaver2 said:
F

First shoot the messenger:
The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers, and produces research to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham and John Tanton, a eugenicist and white nationalist. The foundation was founded in 1985 as a spin-off from the Federation for American Immigration Reform, and is one of a number of anti-immigration organizations founded by Tanton, along with FAIR and NumbersUSA.(from Wikipedia)
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Of course Wikipedia has never been known to be biased. :tongue4:

"As immigration became the driving force behind unending U.S. population growth, John Tanton founded FAIR - the Federation for American Immigration Reform. He is publisher and former editor of The Social Contract. John Tanton is pro immigrant and pro legal immigration, but at reduced, sustainable numbers."
 
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