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What progressives should know about Trump voters

Linc said:
Are you forgetting Junior's recent birther sleaze on Sen. Harris?
All the gop has is mud, threat and smears.
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Didn't here about it, don't care. Last I checked Jr. isn't the President.
 
Conservative said:
What progressives should know about Trump voters - CNN

Outstanding article posted by CNN of all sources. Explains dramatically the views of Trump supporters and the intellectual bankruptcy of the radical left. Fully expect the left to run from articles like this as they always do but the article has to be posted anyway
Click to expand...

Let's get back to critiquing the posted opinion piece. "What Progressives should know about Trump voters.
The title implies there will be information helpful for Democrats in understanding conservatives. So what should Democrats know?

#1 Trump voters like the economy and the way Trump has has handled trade. OK Democrats already knew that.


#2. Democrats need to know that Trump voters think Democrats are culturally biased, don't play fair and have news sources like the NYT that lie, unlike Hannity and Limbaugh who tell the truth. The especially want Democrats to know they are really pissed off because the media showed pictures of Kavanaugh's melt down and some Trump teens being obnoxious. OK Democrats already know that, too.
What Democrats don't understand is why conservatives are suffering a snowflake moment over Jussie Smollett . Jussie pulled a really stupid trick and is paying for it. Why do conservatives continue to beat this dead horse?

#3 Trump voters want Democrats to know that they think Trump will win in 2020. OK, not news; we also knew that.


#4 Trump voters want Democrats to know that even if Trump is crude and rude they still really like his genuineness. Yup we already knew that

#5 Trump voter want Democrats to know that they admire the way he never changes, just keeps going and has never had a melt-down moment. Yup ditto above.

#6 Democrats should know that Trump voters are really pissed that some very visible people are trying to impeach him. And they so admire him for "weathering the unprecedent vitriol" Yeah we know but we're not too sympathetic since you spent 8 years of hate and unprecedented vitriol against President Obama.

#7 see #4.

#8 Democrats need to know that people shouldn't be smart and educated because it makes Trump voters feel bad about themselves. Well Democrats never heard it put quite that way but OK now that we know how you feel we'll kill all the intelligent and well educated Democrats for you so conservatives can feel superior with out going to the trouble to get educated. Fair enough (snicker) but you are going to have to explain all this to the smart and educated Democrats.

#9Trump voters want Democrats to know they think Trump is a stable genius and his family is above reproach. OK that's interesting to know. How do we act on that now that we know?

#10 And last of all Trump voters want Democrats to know that Trump is the equal of JFK, Bill Clinton, or Barack Obama when it comes to addressing a crowd. And Democrats want Trump voters to know that they are delusional if they think Trump is anything other than cheerleader winding up a sympathetic crowd.


So It's not a very enlightening opinion piece since Democrats already know all of that. Tell us something we don't know about Trump supporters.
 
Bullseye said:
Didn't here about it, don't care. Last I checked Jr. isn't the President.
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Last everyone checked, Junior is a major player in this admin. The birther acorn didn’t fall far from the birther tree, and of course, from your own words, you don’t care. Just as trumpcons don’t care if chairman trump vetoes his own Supreme Court.
 
ataraxia said:
That was the very foundation of Trump’s entire political career.
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Which only shows the depths of today's Democrats' isolation from the America envisioned by the founders.

There was not supposed to be such a thing as a political "career" -- a state would send someone to Washington (or the country would elect a president) to serve a term or two in Congress, then they'd go back to whatever they were doing before, in the private sector and someone else would be elected to take their place. That way, we wouldn't have a permanent ruling class who've been in Congress so long they've lost touch with the people they're there to serve.

Unlike the whores career politicians who've already been in the House and Senate for over two decades, President Trump does not have a "political career," in fact he's not even a politician. He's exactly what the founders wanted -- a private citizen who felt he could make positive contributions as POTUS, ran for office, got elected and, after two terms, will return to the private sector.

Perhaps it's because today's Democrats are so tuned in to morphing our republic into a totalitarian (and say whatever you wish, but that's exactly what we'll end up with if they get their way -- unfortunately, most of these people aren't, as they say, being careful what they wish for) socialist state, which would be -- again, inevitably -- run by elitists who would be there a very long time, that they feel completely at home with the idea of a "political career."

Since none of what today's Democrats represent is even remotely related to what the founders created, the idea of term limits likely generates total indifference to the majority of them. Hence, mistakenly referring to Trump's eight year stint as president as a "political career."

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Harv said:
Which only shows the depths of today's Democrats' isolation from the America envisioned by the founders.

There was not supposed to be such a thing as a political "career" -- a state would send someone to Washington (or the country would elect a president) to serve a term or two in Congress, then they'd go back to whatever they were doing before, in the private sector and someone else would be elected to take their place. That way, we wouldn't have a permanent ruling class who've been in Congress so long they've lost touch with the people they're there to serve.

Unlike the whores career politicians who've already been in the House and Senate for over two decades, President Trump does not have a "political career," in fact he's not even a politician. He's exactly what the founders wanted -- a private citizen who felt he could make positive contributions as POTUS, ran for office, got elected and, after two terms, will return to the private sector.

Perhaps it's because today's Democrats are so tuned in to morphing our republic into a totalitarian (and say whatever you wish, but that's exactly what we'll end up with if they get their way -- unfortunately, most of these people aren't, as they say, being careful what they wish for) socialist state, which would be -- again, inevitably -- run by elitists who would be there a very long time, that they feel completely at home with the idea of a "political career."

Since none of what today's Democrats represent is even remotely related to what the founders created, the idea of term limits likely generates total indifference to the majority of them. Hence, mistakenly referring to Trump's eight year stint as president as a "political career."

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Oh please.

Trump got himself elected based on the foundation of the birtherism lie. That was his shtick to get into the political world. Such demagoguery and race baiting was the very foundation of his popularity with his base: a lie which you so aptly described as rotten.

Spare us the founding fathers bit. Donald Trump has created a cult like following and is out to make himself emperor and prophet of god. They are rolling in their graves.
 
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weaver2 said:
Let's get back to critiquing the posted opinion piece. "What Progressives should know about Trump voters.
The title implies there will be information helpful for Democrats in understanding conservatives. So what should Democrats know?

#1 Trump voters like the economy and the way Trump has has handled trade. OK Democrats already knew that.


#2. Democrats need to know that Trump voters think Democrats are culturally biased, don't play fair and have news sources like the NYT that lie, unlike Hannity and Limbaugh who tell the truth. The especially want Democrats to know they are really pissed off because the media showed pictures of Kavanaugh's melt down and some Trump teens being obnoxious. OK Democrats already know that, too.
What Democrats don't understand is why conservatives are suffering a snowflake moment over Jussie Smollett . Jussie pulled a really stupid trick and is paying for it. Why do conservatives continue to beat this dead horse?

#3 Trump voters want Democrats to know that they think Trump will win in 2020. OK, not news; we also knew that.


#4 Trump voters want Democrats to know that even if Trump is crude and rude they still really like his genuineness. Yup we already knew that

#5 Trump voter want Democrats to know that they admire the way he never changes, just keeps going and has never had a melt-down moment. Yup ditto above.

#6 Democrats should know that Trump voters are really pissed that some very visible people are trying to impeach him. And they so admire him for "weathering the unprecedent vitriol" Yeah we know but we're not too sympathetic since you spent 8 years of hate and unprecedented vitriol against President Obama.

#7 see #4.

#8 Democrats need to know that people shouldn't be smart and educated because it makes Trump voters feel bad about themselves. Well Democrats never heard it put quite that way but OK now that we know how you feel we'll kill all the intelligent and well educated Democrats for you so conservatives can feel superior with out going to the trouble to get educated. Fair enough (snicker) but you are going to have to explain all this to the smart and educated Democrats.

#9Trump voters want Democrats to know they think Trump is a stable genius and his family is above reproach. OK that's interesting to know. How do we act on that now that we know?

#10 And last of all Trump voters want Democrats to know that Trump is the equal of JFK, Bill Clinton, or Barack Obama when it comes to addressing a crowd. And Democrats want Trump voters to know that they are delusional if they think Trump is anything other than cheerleader winding up a sympathetic crowd.


So It's not a very enlightening opinion piece since Democrats already know all of that. Tell us something we don't know about Trump supporters.
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Good, then there is no reason to have the election since the Democrats know they are going to lose again, when can we expect them to get back to their roots and away from their radical supporters?
 
Linc said:
Radical trumpublicans don’t get to Lee Atwaterize what a Pro and Patriotic American is, least of all the cowardly liar and conman in chief who appeals to phony, hypocritical evangelicals.
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You have bought the media marketing of Trump, hook, line, and sinker. The results speak for themselves as does your hatred and ignorance of those results. Pro Americans??? No, don't think so, you respect the office not the person in it and the results generated not your perception. Went to a 4th of July concert last night and had my father who was at Pearl Harbor and my father in law at Normandy recognized along with hundreds of other PATRIOTIC Americans who served this country go give you the opportunity to make an ass out of yourself and the freedom to hate it. Trump has done nothing to hurt you, your family or the country as the actual results show
 
ataraxia said:
Oh please.

Trump got himself elected based on the foundation of the birtherism lie. That was his shtick to get into the political world. Such demagoguery and race baiting was the very foundation of his popularity with his base: a lie which you so aptly described as rotten.

Spare us the founding fathers bit. Donald Trump has created a cult like following and is out to make himself emperor and prophet of god. They are rolling in their graves.
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I hate to break this to you, but the "birther" bit had little if anything to do with anyone voting for Trump.

Unlike Obama and (a profoundly corrupt) Hillary, Trump spoke to the middle class, who were totally ignored for eight years by Obama -- yeah, yeah... I know, but there's a difference between telling people what you think is "good for them" and listening to what they know they need, and "progressives" are very good at deciding others' needs for them. Trump listened.

You portside pundits just don't get it, but that's fine -- when President Trump begins his second term in January 2021, Nancy, Chuck and the rest of that lefty lot will be relegated to the nosebleed seats in both the House and Senate, where they belong.

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Harv said:
I hate to break this to you, but the "birther" bit had little if anything to do with anyone voting for Trump.

Unlike Obama and (a profoundly corrupt) Hillary, Trump spoke to the middle class, who were totally ignored for eight years by Obama -- yeah, yeah... I know, but there's a difference between telling people what you think is "good for them" and listening to what they know they need, and "progressives" are very good at deciding others' needs for them. Trump listened.

You portside pundits just don't get it, but that's fine -- when President Trump begins his second term in January 2021, Nancy, Chuck and the rest of that lefty lot will be relegated to the nosebleed seats in both the House and Senate, where they belong.

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A country needs the balance of two strong parties in order for democracy to function as it should. Hoping to relegate Democrats to a position where they have no voice in government is the hope of a fascist not a patriot.


Trump may well earn another term but not because he has supported democracy or made the Republican Party more relevant, but because the wealthy have benefitted greatly at the expense of financial and environmental fairness to the rest of the country. They will make huge contributions to his campaign. The undereducated will vote for him because they can be conned into believing that "pay-back" is better than their economic security.
 
ataraxia said:
That was the very foundation of Trump’s entire political career.
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Bull****. Trump's political career can be laid at the feet of the loony left who forgot they were the party of the people and began being the party of the imaginary victims' groups. When they became more dedicated to forcing people to bake gay wedding cakes, and dictating males could shower with women if they "identified as women" they lost ordinary working American families. That's the basis of Trump's political career - he delivers to the "great unwashed" that leftists fly over.
 
weaver2 said:
A country needs the balance of two strong parties in order for democracy to function as it should. Hoping to relegate Democrats to a position where they have no voice in government is the hope of a fascist not a patriot.


Trump may well earn another term but not because he has supported democracy or made the Republican Party more relevant, but because the wealthy have benefitted greatly at the expense of financial and environmental fairness to the rest of the country. They will make huge contributions to his campaign. The undereducated will vote for him because they can be conned into believing that "pay-back" is better than their economic security.
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Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come.

Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive.

Tell that to those middle class families that can now double the standard deduction on their tax returns.

For the rich, you say?

Tell that to all those rich folks who, unlike the middle class, pay high five and six digits in city and state income taxes and are no longer able to write off more than $10k of it on their federal returns....

....many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves.


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Harv said:
Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come.

Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive.

Tell that to those middle class families that can now double the standard deduction on their tax returns.

For the rich, you say?

Tell that to all those rich folks who, unlike the middle class, pay high five and six digits in city and state income taxes and are no longer able to write off more than $10k of it on their federal returns....

....many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves.


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"Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come."

(from Fact Check2/5/19)
WASHINGTON (AP) — A look at President Donald Trump’s statement Tuesday night on food stamps and how it compares with the facts:

TRUMP, describing progress over the last two years: “Nearly 5 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps.”
THE FACTS: The number of people receiving food stamps actually hasn’t declined that much.
Government data show there were 44.2 million people participating in the Supplemental Nutrition and Assistance Program in 2016, before Trump took office.
In 2018, there were 40.3 million people participating in SNAP. That’s a decline of 3.9 million, not the 5 million that Trump talked about.
The number of people participating in the SNAP program peaked in 2013 and has been going down since that time.

https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/pd/SNAPsummary.pdf
 
Harv said:
Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come.

Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive.

Tell that to those middle class families that can now double the standard deduction on their tax returns.

For the rich, you say?

Tell that to all those rich folks who, unlike the middle class, pay high five and six digits in city and state income taxes and are no longer able to write off more than $10k of it on their federal returns....

....many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves.


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"Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive."

How real is Trump's jobs 'miracle'? - BBC News
 
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weaver2 said:
"Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive."
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fyi, many food stamp recipients have jobs.

They're just jobs which don't pay enough to keep them from qualifying for food stamps

:shrug:
 
Harv said:
Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come.

Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive.

Tell that to those middle class families that can now double the standard deduction on their tax returns.

For the rich, you say?

Tell that to all those rich folks who, unlike the middle class, pay high five and six digits in city and state income taxes and are no longer able to write off more than $10k of it on their federal returns....

....many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves.


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"Tell that to those middle class families that can now double the standard deduction on their tax returns."


Trump tax plan: 'Doubled standard deduction' is misleading - Business Insider
 
weaver2 said:
"Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come."

(from Fact Check2/5/19)
WASHINGTON (AP) — A look at President Donald Trump’s statement Tuesday night on food stamps and how it compares with the facts:

TRUMP, describing progress over the last two years: “Nearly 5 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps.”
THE FACTS: The number of people receiving food stamps actually hasn’t declined that much.
Government data show there were 44.2 million people participating in the Supplemental Nutrition and Assistance Program in 2016, before Trump took office.
In 2018, there were 40.3 million people participating in SNAP. That’s a decline of 3.9 million, not the 5 million that Trump talked about.
The number of people participating in the SNAP program peaked in 2013 and has been going down since that time.

https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/pd/SNAPsummary.pdf
Click to expand...
The number was 39.7 million in 2018 (https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/resource-files/SNAPsummary-5.pdf) and 38.9 million in January, 2019 (https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/resource-files/SNAPsummary-5.pdf).

44.2 million - 38.9 million = 5.3 million
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
The number was 39.7 million in 2018 (https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/resource-files/SNAPsummary-5.pdf) and 38.9 million in January, 2019 (https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/resource-files/SNAPsummary-5.pdf).

44.2 million - 38.9 million = 5.3 million
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Strange; your USDA chart showing food stamp use is exactly the same as the one in my article except for 2018. Which ever chart is correct the fact is that starting in 2013 there is a steady trend of declining use of food stamps. Like many things Trump is claiming credit for they are mostly just part of a continuing trend left over from the Obama administration. The real test will be if he can keep the trend going for all 4 years of this administration and into a second 4 years should there be one.
 
Harv said:
Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come.

Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive.

Tell that to those middle class families that can now double the standard deduction on their tax returns.

For the rich, you say?

Tell that to all those rich folks who, unlike the middle class, pay high five and six digits in city and state income taxes and are no longer able to write off more than $10k of it on their federal returns....

....many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves.


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Click to expand...



"Tell that to all those rich folks who, unlike the middle class, pay high five and six digits in city and state income taxes and are no longer able to write off more than $10k of it on their federal returns...."

A Year After the Middle Class Tax Cut, the Rich Are Winning
 
Harv said:
Tell that to a few million people who are off of food stamps and back to work, with more of the same to come.

Tell that to numerous employers who can't even fill the new positions they've created and are upping salaries, wages and benefits to be more competitive.

Tell that to those middle class families that can now double the standard deduction on their tax returns.

For the rich, you say?

Tell that to all those rich folks who, unlike the middle class, pay high five and six digits in city and state income taxes and are no longer able to write off more than $10k of it on their federal returns....

....many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves.


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Click to expand...



"...many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves."


https://inequality.stanford.edu/sit...mer_2014/Pathways_Summer_2014_YoungVarner.pdf

High taxes be damned, the rich keep moving to California - Los Angeles Times

800,000 people are about to flee New York, California because of taxes
 
weaver2 said:
Strange; your USDA chart showing food stamp use is exactly the same as the one in my article except for 2018. Which ever chart is correct the fact is that starting in 2013 there is a steady trend of declining use of food stamps. Like many things Trump is claiming credit for they are mostly just part of a continuing trend left over from the Obama administration. The real test will be if he can keep the trend going for all 4 years of this administration and into a second 4 years should there be one.
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And Obama is responsible for the stock market boom since Trump got elected? Am I right?

Anyway, it appears that the SNAP participation numbers are adjusted in arrears during the following month or two. The "fact check" for the 2/5/19 article used less than accurate numbers...oh the irony! That said, don't you find it odd that the "fact checkers" haven't gone back to correct their numbers to 42.2-39.7=4.5 million...which is indeed nearly 5 million as Trump stated? You're getting played and don't know it.

BTW, did you look at the actual numbers for 2013 (47,636), 2014 (46,664), 2015 (45,767) and 2016 (44,220)? Not much of a downward trend. Compare this to 2017 (42,108) and 2018 (39,651). Now that's a downward trend! It took Obama 4 years to get a 7.2% reduction (1.8% per year) while it took Trump only 2 years to get a 10.3% reduction (5.2% per year).

I find it hilarious that you posted to denigrate Trump. Tell me, are you an honest broker and willing to concede my point? Or are you going to rationalize the facts of the matter into something you want to believe? I look forward to seeing your choice.
 
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weaver2 said:
"...many of whom I hear are now moving out of those high-tax, "progressive" run states and relocating to the significantly lower taxed environments of conservative states to avoid those smothering local taxes they'd now have to eat themselves."


https://inequality.stanford.edu/sit...mer_2014/Pathways_Summer_2014_YoungVarner.pdf

High taxes be damned, the rich keep moving to California - Los Angeles Times

800,000 people are about to flee New York, California because of taxes
Click to expand...

Population growth rate: The fastest growing and shrinking states in US
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
And Obama is responsible for the stock market boom since Trump got elected? Am I right?

Anyway, it appears that the SNAP participation numbers are adjusted in arrears during the following month or two. The "fact check" for the 2/5/19 article used less than accurate numbers...oh the irony! That said, don't you find it odd that the "fact checkers" haven't gone back to correct their numbers to 42.2-39.7=4.5 million...which is indeed nearly 5 million as Trump stated? You're getting played and don't know it.

BTW, did you look at the actual numbers for 2013 (47,636), 2014 (46,664), 2015 (45,767) and 2016 (44,220)? Not much of a downward trend. Compare this to 2017 (42,108) and 2018 (39,651). Now that's a downward trend! It took Obama 4 years to get a 7.2% reduction (1.8% per year) while it took Trump only 2 years to get a 10.3% reduction (5.2% per year).

I find it hilarious that you posted to denigrate Trump. Tell me, are you an honest broker and willing to concede my point? Or are you going to rationalize the facts of the matter into something you want to believe? I look forward to seeing your choice.
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I agree if Fact Check didn't use the up dated numbers they are at fault. Their article was posted/2/5/19. Perhaps they did not have the January up-date.

And yes Obama's numbers did not go down quickly nor did the stock market soar like it has with Trump. And there are identifiable reasons for that if everyone is being honest. I suppose it is just human nature when your guy is winning to give him/her all the credit. But true honesty includes looking at who and what supported the success.

The self-centered, 'self-made man" is wrong when he claims he pulled himself up by his own boot straps, ignoring the the parents who financed him, the people that mentored him, those that saw his potential and guided him, the tax breaks he got, the laws that supported him, and the superior intelligence he was simply born with that enabled him to take advantage of his support. Much of Trump's success is built on what others built.

Trump has done much for some sectors of the country and he gets credit for that. But, honesty requires looking at the total of what Trump has done and there are many that have not benefited from his administration except to share in the optimism of Trump's raucous cheerleading. It is 100% true that it is way more fun to go to or watch rallies where someone is telling you you are great people and great things are happening for you than it is to listen to a sober complicated discussion of economics, social issues and international diplomacy. Hands down, Trump is more fun than Obama.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Population growth rate: The fastest growing and shrinking states in US
Click to expand...


Harv was talking about the movement of millionaires. Population growth or loss in different states isn't dependent on where millionaires move away from or move too. It usually has to do with migrations of people of lower and middle means from one state to another. Maine has a net population loss. The majority of people leaving are middle class people who lost jobs in the wood products industry. The tiny number of people moving into Maine are generally very wealthy retirees.
 
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