Why the racist anger toward minority groups?

So I was watching "Reconstruction" on PBS the other night, and was pretty shocked at the level of violence described toward newly freed blacks of the era both from private citizens and from actual governments of the day. Then I thought about it, and realized that it's continued forward until the present day against blacks, although in an arguably less violent form.

I don't get it. By that, I mean I don't get the hateful angry part. Similarly, I can't quite understand the virulent hate that's been around in Europe for centuries toward Jews.

While I don't agree with it at all, I can at least understand how white America might have had a patronizing, superior attitude. Or how medieval Europeans might resent Jews for being the chief moneylenders of their era (despite having been forced into it by Christian governments), and having a certain irritation toward them for being part of the group that crucified Jesus (despite Jesus himself having been a Jew).

But neither of those attitudes really lends themselves to being quite so angry, hateful and willing to do such horrible things. That's what I don't get. At all.

Anyone have any insight?

Huey Freeman said:

So I was watching "Reconstruction" on PBS the other night, and was pretty shocked at the level of violence described toward newly freed blacks of the era both from private citizens and from actual governments of the day. Then I thought about it, and realized that it's continued forward until the present day against blacks, although in an arguably less violent form.

I don't get it. By that, I mean I don't get the hateful angry part. Similarly, I can't quite understand the virulent hate that's been around in Europe for centuries toward Jews.

While I don't agree with it at all, I can at least understand how white America might have had a patronizing, superior attitude. Or how medieval Europeans might resent Jews for being the chief moneylenders of their era (despite having been forced into it by Christian governments), and having a certain irritation toward them for being part of the group that crucified Jesus (despite Jesus himself having been a Jew).

But neither of those attitudes really lends themselves to being quite so angry, hateful and willing to do such horrible things. That's what I don't get. At all.

Anyone have any insight?

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It boils down to what one is exposed to. If one is raised to believe that different groups are certain way, they will believe so unless they experience evidence to the contrary. Virtue signalling and attempting to shame racists just causes those racists to dig in their heels. My parents were hard core xenophobes. My mother went into orbit when I started to bring Latinas home some thirty years ago. I would point to the beautiful Latina in her living room and ask, "Do you know anyone better here in town that would give me the time of day"? The only reply she would have was an annoyed look.

Huey Freeman said:

So I was watching "Reconstruction" on PBS the other night, and was pretty shocked at the level of violence described toward newly freed blacks of the era both from private citizens and from actual governments of the day. Then I thought about it, and realized that it's continued forward until the present day against blacks, although in an arguably less violent form...

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In order to try to provide the "insight" you are requesting, one would have to agree with the bolded part of your post.

I do not agree with it. :no:

Now, I do recognize that there is a small minority of persons who hold to racist ideologies and act out from time to time, among whom exists a percentage of Whites.

However, I do not see "institutionalized racism" of the nature of the Reconstruction Period, or even of the Jim Crow period occurring as late as the 1960's.

I do see an enduring narrative that Black Americans still face wide-spread racist oppression. However, IMO that is a false narrative fostered by those pushing this "hierarchy of oppression" belief system of Identity Politics. That this is designed to create a sense of eternal conflict and feelings of entitlement which can be used to control various groups.

Perhaps you can cite some specific examples (beyond the random white supremacist who pops up from time to time) and then one might address your position.

Captain Adverse said:

In order to try to provide the "insight" you are requesting, one would have to agree with the bolded part of your post.

I do not agree with it. :no:

Now, I do recognize that there is a small minority of persons who hold to racist ideologies and act out from time to time, among whom exists a percentage of Whites.

However, I do not see "institutionalized racism" of the nature of the Reconstruction Period, or even of the Jim Crow period as late as the early 1960's.

Perhaps you can cite some specific examples (beyond the random white supremacist who pops up from time to time) and then one might address your position.

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There are a significant number of white people that are still uncomfortable around black people. They hide it because society forces them to. It doesn't make them bad people. Shaming them is certainly not the solution.

Huey Freeman said:

So I was watching "Reconstruction" on PBS the other night, and was pretty shocked at the level of violence described toward newly freed blacks of the era both from private citizens and from actual governments of the day. Then I thought about it, and realized that it's continued forward until the present day against blacks, although in an arguably less violent form.

I don't get it. By that, I mean I don't get the hateful angry part.

Click to expand...

The last time I personally encountered anyone with anger or hatred toward black people was over 30 years ago, when I was in my early/mid 20's.

You say that this violence, in a lesser form, continues to the present day, but other than a few fringe hate groups that consist of an extremely small percentage of the population, I don't get what you're talking about... Could you give some examples of what you are talking about so I understand where your coming from on this?

Similarly, I can't quite understand the virulent hate that's been around in Europe for centuries toward Jews.

While I don't agree with it at all, I can at least understand how white America might have had a patronizing, superior attitude. Or how medieval Europeans might resent Jews for being the chief moneylenders of their era (despite having been forced into it by Christian governments), and having a certain irritation toward them for being part of the group that crucified Jesus (despite Jesus himself having been a Jew).

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Hatred toward Jews is something that to this very day, I can't rap my head around. I have never understood it, and I don't think I ever will. I know that Jews of western European decent have the highest average IQ's of any other group of people in the world, and I often wonder if that might play into the anti-Semitism that so many people embrace. I was raised as a Catholic and even went to a Catholic school for 2 years, and I never encountered any anti-Semitism. I can't fathom that Christians would hold a grudge against Jews for something that took place 2000 years ago.

But neither of those attitudes really lends themselves to being quite so angry, hateful and willing to do such horrible things. That's what I don't get. At all.

Anyone have any insight?

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The only thing I can come up with is that human beings by nature fear the unknown, and that fear can lead to hatred or disdain in people of all races, toward people of races other than their own. There does seem to be a greater cultural difference between white people and black people, than there is between white people and any other minority group in America. Maybe that's part of it... Who knows.

As for racial violence, that's something in this day and age I will never understand.

SDET said:

It boils down to what one is exposed to. If one is raised to believe that different groups are certain way, they will believe so unless they experience evidence to the contrary. Virtue signalling and attempting to shame racists just causes those racists to dig in their heels. My parents were hard core xenophobes. My mother went into orbit when I started to bring Latinas home some thirty years ago. I would point to the beautiful Latina in her living room and ask, "Do you know anyone better here in town that would give me the time of day"? The only reply she would have was an annoyed look.

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I agree with the bolded comment but I support shaming insofar that doing the opposite (i.e. nothing) is being complicit in racism.

Captain Adverse said:

In order to try to provide the "insight" you are requesting, one would have to agree with the bolded part of your post.

I do not agree with it. :no:

Now, I do recognize that there is a small minority of persons who hold to racist ideologies and act out from time to time, among whom exists a percentage of Whites.

However, I do not see "institutionalized racism" of the nature of the Reconstruction Period, or even of the Jim Crow period occurring as late as the 1960's.

I do see an enduring narrative that Black Americans still face wide-spread racist oppression. However, IMO that is a false narrative fostered by those pushing this "hierarchy of oppression" belief system of Identity Politics. That this is designed to create a sense of eternal conflict and feelings of entitlement which can be used to control various groups.

Perhaps you can cite some specific examples (beyond the random white supremacist who pops up from time to time) and then one might address your position.

Click to expand...

I am sorry, I am thinking this message board is probably not the best place to debate. If you do not know what Reconstruction, why is failed, and what occurred, then we are at an impasse. I mean, my God, KKK was birthed and breast fed by Reconstruction. I would ask - and I do not mean any disrespect by suggesting this - that you take the time to educate yourself about the Reconstruction time period. The fact that you're asking for specific examples suggest - at least to me - that you have either know nothing about the topic or possess a desultory knowledge of the time period.

Thanks

Thanks

Huey Freeman said:

So I was watching "Reconstruction" on PBS the other night, and was pretty shocked at the level of violence described toward newly freed blacks of the era both from private citizens and from actual governments of the day. Then I thought about it, and realized that it's continued forward until the present day against blacks, although in an arguably less violent form.

I don't get it. By that, I mean I don't get the hateful angry part. Similarly, I can't quite understand the virulent hate that's been around in Europe for centuries toward Jews.

While I don't agree with it at all, I can at least understand how white America might have had a patronizing, superior attitude. Or how medieval Europeans might resent Jews for being the chief moneylenders of their era (despite having been forced into it by Christian governments), and having a certain irritation toward them for being part of the group that crucified Jesus (despite Jesus himself having been a Jew).

But neither of those attitudes really lends themselves to being quite so angry, hateful and willing to do such horrible things. That's what I don't get. At all.

Anyone have any insight?

Click to expand...

I didn't watch the show you're talking about, but knowing PBS, my guess is they cropped out the part of Reconstruction where blacks were given power over whites in some parts is the South, yes? Blacks became sheriffs, mayors, and lorded it over Southern whites, many of whom were never financially capable of owning slaves in the first place.

Secondly, I'm amazed that historians are still spreading the insane idea that 'Jews were forced to work in finance'. It's simply not true- the ones who DID work in finance (not all Jews did, of course) were mostly already established in other parts of the world before either migrating voluntarily into new territory, or as in the case of the Norman invasion and conquest of what would later be called England, they accompanied William the Conqueror, and entered England for the first time as part of the conquerors. I'm sure they didn't endear themselves to the Anglo-Saxons by introducing usury and taxation.

Grim17 said:

You say that this violence, in a lesser form, continues to the present day, but other than a few fringe hate groups that consist of an extremely small percentage of the population, I don't get what you're talking about... Could you give some examples of what you are talking about so I understand where your coming from on this?

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See my previous post above.

Grim17 said:

The last time I personally encountered anyone with anger or hatred toward black people was over 30 years ago, when I was in my early/mid 20's.

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Which is why the cries of "I am not racist" rings hollow. Close your eyes and think about this question: who do you know has actually admitted to being racist after their ostensible racist behavior was called out? What white person you know said "You're right, that behavior was racist, I shouldn't have done that?" No one. Think about that. White people have admitted and plead guilty to being a murderer, theft, alcohol addiction, even treason but you'll never find a single white person who will admit to racism. Reread that last sentence because it's true. So when a white person says "That's not racist" or "I'm not racist", it's not surprising because white people never admit to racism. Never. Ever. Ever. Racism denial functions to keep the status quo by dismissing the realities of people of color and, ultimately, maintain the pillars of white supremacy. Indeed, when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Captain Adverse said:

I do see an enduring narrative that Black Americans still face wide-spread racist oppression.

Click to expand...

Ever since the Civil Rights Act, racism has essentially been privatized.

Black people have a harder time getting loans. Black people have a harder time getting jobs. Black people have a harder time getting credit.

Huey Freeman said:

I am sorry, I am thinking this message board is probably not the best place to debate. If you do not know what Reconstruction, why is failed, and what occurred, then we are at an impasse. I mean, my God, KKK was birthed and breast fed by Reconstruction. I would ask - and I do not mean any disrespect by suggesting this - that you take the time to educate yourself about the Reconstruction time period. The fact that you're asking for specific examples suggest - at least to me - that you have either know nothing about the topic or possess a desultory knowledge of the time period.

Thanks

Thanks

Click to expand...

"No offense," but is English your second language? How did you get that I had no idea what the Reconstruction Period was, or that anything I said in my post was not relevant to your OP position?

To be clear, I was stating that I did not agree with your assertion that there was still a level of violence against Black Americans today equivalent to that occurring during the Reconstruction.

Now if you can't point to evidence showing that there is, in fact, the same or similar levels of violence and oppression occurring today as there was back during the Reconstruction period...fine.

But don't pretend not to intend to give "offense" when you were both doing so and completely misreading the post you responded to. :coffeepap:

truthatallcost said:

I didn't watch the show you're talking about, but knowing PBS, my guess is they cropped out the part of Reconstruction where blacks were given power over whites in some parts is the South, yes? Blacks became sheriffs, mayors, and lorded it over Southern whites, many of whom were never financially capable of owning slaves in the first place.

Secondly, I'm amazed that historians are still spreading the insane idea that 'Jews were forced to work in finance'. It's simply not true- the ones who DID work in finance (not all Jews did, of course) were mostly already established in other parts of the world before either migrating voluntarily into new territory, or as in the case of the Norman invasion and conquest of what would later be called England, they accompanied William the Conqueror, and entered England for the first time as part of the conquerors. I'm sure they didn't endear themselves to the Anglo-Saxons by introducing usury and taxation.

Click to expand...

The blacks who were elected were thrown out at the end of Reconstruction. And, just like Obama, whites not only undid the laws passed during that time but took it a step further by enshrining Jim Crow into the law itself. It wasn't a backlash, it was a whitelash against blacks who had judiciously passed laws. The whitelash we see against Obama's tenure is repeat of the Reconstruction Era.

Rep Joseph Rainey (1871) said:

We are certainly in the majority there; I admit that we are as two to one. Sir, I ask this House, I ask the country, I ask white men, I ask Democrats, I ask Republicans whether the Negroes have presumed to take improper advantage of the majority they hold in that State by disregarding the interest of the minority? They have not. Our convention which met in 1868, and in which the Negroes were in a large majority, did not pass any proscriptive or disfranchising acts, but adopted a liberal constitution, securing alike equal rights to all citizens, white and black, male and female, as far as possible. Mark you, we did not discriminate, although we had a majority. Our constitution towers up in its majesty with provisions for equal protection of all classes and citizens. Notwithstanding our majority there, we have never attempted to deprive any man in that State of the rights and immunities to which he is entitled under the Constitution of this Government. You cannot point me to a single act passed by our Legislature, at any time, which had a tendency to reflect upon or oppress any white citizen of South Carolina. You cannot show me one enactment by which the majority in our State have undertaken to crush the white men because the latter are in a minority.

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Huey Freeman said:

So I was watching "Reconstruction" on PBS the other night, and was pretty shocked at the level of violence described toward newly freed blacks of the era both from private citizens and from actual governments of the day. Then I thought about it, and realized that it's continued forward until the present day against blacks, although in an arguably less violent form.

I don't get it. By that, I mean I don't get the hateful angry part. Similarly, I can't quite understand the virulent hate that's been around in Europe for centuries toward Jews.

While I don't agree with it at all, I can at least understand how white America might have had a patronizing, superior attitude. Or how medieval Europeans might resent Jews for being the chief moneylenders of their era (despite having been forced into it by Christian governments), and having a certain irritation toward them for being part of the group that crucified Jesus (despite Jesus himself having been a Jew).

But neither of those attitudes really lends themselves to being quite so angry, hateful and willing to do such horrible things. That's what I don't get. At all.

Anyone have any insight?

Click to expand...

I believe the solution is to remove race from societies lingo. To be color blind. No race on government polls or college application etc. etc. You remove the group identity you remove the group like thinking and blaming of other groups. Practicing individualism and a shared identity as americans can help go along way in removing the problems.

Huey Freeman said:

The blacks who were elected were thrown out at the end of Reconstruction. And, just like Obama, whites not only undid the laws passed during that time but took it a step further by enshrining Jim Crow into the law itself. It wasn't a backlash, it was a whitelash against blacks who had judiciously passed laws. The whitelash we see against Obama's tenure is repeat of the Reconstruction Era.

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In 1874, when blacks won the election, white folks rioted. This was the first step of voter intimidation that still occurs today.

Election riot of 1874 - Wikipedia

Huey Freeman said:

See my previous post above.

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I saw it and it didn't answer my question. I will highlight the relevant parts:

You say that this violence, in a lesser form, continues to the present day, but other than a few fringe hate groups that consist of an extremely small percentage of the population, I don't get what you're talking about... Could you give some examples of what you are talking about so I understand where your coming from on this?


You say it continues today and I would like to see examples that support your position.

Which is why the cries of "I am not racist" rings hollow. Close your eyes and think about this question: who do you know has actually admitted to being racist after their ostensible racist behavior was called out? What white person you know said "You're right, that behavior was racist, I shouldn't have done that?" No one. Think about that. White people have admitted and plead guilty to being a murderer, theft, alcohol addiction, even treason but you'll never find a single white person who will admit to racism.

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You just said in effect, that if a person says they aren't racist, you don't believe them. How sweet of you.

Look, I have not encountered anyone who I believed to be racist, nor have I witnessed any "white person" acting out in a racist fashion for 30 years. If I have not seen an act of racism, why in the hell would someone admit to something they didn't do, and why would I call them out for it when it didn't happen?

It's obvious your first post was pretending to be something it wasn't. You hid your true agenda in order suck in enough people to preach to... If I would have known you were another one of those leftists who sees racism behind every tree and hiding behind every bush, I wouldn't have wasted my time trying to have an honest, reasoned discussion with you in the first place

Have fun with your decisive, destructive "college grade" leftist talking points... I'm out.

.

jdog21 said:

I believe the solution is to remove race from societies lingo. To be color blind. No race on government polls or college application etc. etc. You remove the group identity you remove the group like thinking and blaming of other groups. Practicing individualism and a shared identity as americans can help go along way in removing the problems.

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I partially agree with this as long as it is 100% consistent. Government and business cannot ask for race, news agencies would be prohibited from stating an individual's race, pictures that identify a person's race or ethnicity would be purged, Census would not be able to ask people for their race, hospitals would not be able to ask for someone's race. Further, government and businesses would be required to do interviews "blind" behind a screen and a voice scrambler (Cite: How blind auditions help orchestras to eliminate gender bias | Women in Leadership | The Guardian) See this:

In the 1970s and 1980s, orchestras began using blind auditions. Candidates are situated on a stage behind a screen to play for a jury that cannot see them. In some orchestras, blind auditions are used just for the preliminary selection while others use it all the way to the end, until a hiring decision is made.

Even when the screen is only used for the preliminary round, it has a powerful impact; researchers have determined that this step alone makes it 50% more likely that a woman will advance to the finals. And the screen has also been demonstrated to be the source of a surge in the number of women being offered positions.

By the way, even a screen doesn't always yield a gender blind event. Screens keep juries from seeing the candidates move into position, but the telltale sounds of a woman's shoes allegedly influenced some jury members such that aspiring musicians were instructed to remove their footwear before coming onto the stage.

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As for identity politics, I disagree. People have an issue with identity politics because, among other things, "identity politics" disrupts individualism - a pillar of white liberalism and white supremacy. Identity politics brought us 43 white male Presidents . . . in a row and it was never an issue in mainstream discourse until Obama was elected by people of color. Do you remember in 2002 where GWB talked about the scourge of identity politics poisoning our political climate? Or perhaps you remember Reagan in 1985 talking about how we shouldn't engage in identity politics? Me either. As for individualism, I don't buy that either because, IMO, individualism is a pillar of white supremacy. YMMV

Huey Freeman said:

I partially agree with this as long as it is 100% consistent. Government and business cannot ask for race, news agencies would be prohibited from stating an individual's race, pictures that identify a person's race or ethnicity would be purged, Census would not be able to ask people for their race, hospitals would not be able to ask for someone's race. Further, government and businesses would be required to do interviews "blind" behind a screen and a voice scrambler (Cite: How blind auditions help orchestras to eliminate gender bias | Women in Leadership | The Guardian) See this:



As for identity politics, I disagree. People have an issue with identity politics because, among other things, "identity politics" disrupts individualism - a pillar of white liberalism and white supremacy. Identity politics brought us 43 white male Presidents . . . in a row and it was never an issue in mainstream discourse until Obama was elected by people of color. Do you remember in 2002 where GWB talked about the scourge of identity politics poisoning our political climate? Or perhaps you remember Reagan in 1985 talking about how we shouldn't engage in identity politics? Me either. As for individualism, I don't buy that either because, IMO, individualism is a pillar of white supremacy. YMMV

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How is "individualism is a pillar of white supremacy"?
Seems like its all inclusive, making no race better then any other. Just 1 individual may be or not be better then another individual.

Huey Freeman said:

The blacks who were elected were thrown out at the end of Reconstruction. And, just like Obama, whites not only undid the laws passed during that time but took it a step further by enshrining Jim Crow into the law itself. It wasn't a backlash, it was a whitelash against blacks who had judiciously passed laws. The whitelash we see against Obama's tenure is repeat of the Reconstruction Era.

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New York state, that bastion of pro-Union sentiment, immediately passed laws after the end of slavery which are known as Black Codes. The Black Codes sought to prevent freed slaves from moving to New York, and several other non-confederate states did the same. So while blacks were put into positions of authority in southern states, many states which sided with the Union didn't even want black people allowed to step foot there.

Black Codes (United States) - Wikipedia


Abraham Lincoln's goal was to repatriate freed slaves to Africa, which was derailed by his assassination of course. Of the several thousand American blacks who did move to Africa, most started plantations, where they enslaved native Africans, completely destroying the American myth of the righteous and moral freed slave, who operated by some commitment to liberal values of the day.

Between 1847 and 1980, the state of Liberia was dominated by the small minority of black colonists and their descendants, known collectively as Americo-Liberians. The Americo-Liberian minority, many of whom were mixed race African Americans, tended to marry within their group. They had established plantations and businesses, and were generally richer than the indigenous people of Liberia and exercised overwhelming political power.

The Americo-Liberians had limited the franchise to prevent indigenous Liberians from voting in elections.

History of Liberia - Wikipedia

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Liberia is often overlooked by historians, because it paints a picture of free American blacks colonizing black Africans, denying them the right to vote, and generally practicing methods of discrimination and oppression which we're told are unique to white people.

Grim17 said:

I saw it and it didn't answer my question. I will highlight the relevant parts:

You say that this violence, in a lesser form, continues to the present day, but other than a few fringe hate groups that consist of an extremely small percentage of the population, I don't get what you're talking about... Could you give some examples of what you are talking about so I understand where your coming from on this?

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Given that law enforcement are the military arm of white folks, the brutality inflicted by white folks are cloaked by plausible deniability. Have you not heard of Tamir Rice, a boy shot by the military arm of white folks? Have you not heard of Jeffrey Dahmer who stalked, raped, and ****ing ate (yes, he ****ing ate) people of color? Have you not heard of Larry Nevers and Water Budzyn? Have you not heard of Dylann Roof who was welcomed into a black church, engaged in Bible study with them, before shooting them all dead in cold blood? Have you not hear Sherell L. Lewis Jr. was struck by Martin Matthew. He knew that Sherell had died on the way to the hospital and had openly bragged about it on Snapchat. Matthew wrote on Snapchat “y’all i just hit a whole guy on the highway,” followed by three sob emojis. He referred to the person who died as "some nigger". (Cite: Teen brags on Snapchat about fatally running over ‘some n—r’ Have you not heard of District Attorney Michael Selyem wrote that Rep. Maxine Waters, “Being a loud-mouthed **** in the ghetto you would think someone would have shot this bitch by now …” (Cite: Top San Bernardino County gang prosecutor under fire for offensive social media posts – Orange County Register). Have you not heard of Devonte Ortiz was killed by a 41 year old white man. The white man claimed self-defense but the video that the police have indicate a different story. The video allegedly shows Ortiz, the white man, and the white man's father arguing over firecrackers. The white man is seen unholstering and holstering his gun multiple times. The white man's father attempts to intervene leading to shoving between Ortiz and the white man's father. The white man's father falls to the ground, and the white man responded by shooting Devonte Ortiz to death. (Cite: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m-to-death-police-say/?utm_term=.eafb8522db3f) Have you not heard of Larry Lappin was recorded flipping out because he heard Mexican-Americans celebrating the holiday with Spanish music. “Sometimes I wish they would assimilate more. I hear them playing [Spanish language] music in the backyard all the time and it doesn’t bother me. Because of the day and what July 4th means to me, I felt disrespected,” Lappin said (Cite: Man Apologizes For Racist Tirade Over Latin Music On July 4th – CBS San Francisco Have you heard of Timothy Trybus screaming at a woman, harassing her, and following her around because she wore a Puerto Rican shirt? (Cite: Hate crime charges filed against man caught on video confronting woman over Puerto Rico shirt - Chicago Tribune Did you hear about the Biscayne Park Police Department were told by their police chief to blame unresolved crimes on random black people? (Cite: https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article213647764.html), Did you hear about Air Force reserve soldier Tabbie Duncan claim that she is "hunting niggers"? (Cite: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-waitress-booted-air-force-20180615-story.html)? Did you hear about Glenn Halflin hang a noose outside of of an African-American family's home? (Cite: https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/07/12/north-texas-man-pleads-guiltyl-hate-crime/)? Did you hear about police accused a group of black teenagers of dining and dashing at an IHOP (Hint: they actually paid) (Cite: https://www.stltoday.com/news/local...5a8b530.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1). Continued on next post.

Kobie said:

Ever since the Civil Rights Act, racism has essentially been privatized.

Black people have a harder time getting loans. Black people have a harder time getting jobs. Black people have a harder time getting credit.

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No they don’t. Your credit score is based exclusively on your paying back your loans and how much you borrow. I have never filled out a credit card application that asked my race on it. This is simply a lie.

Grim17 said:

I saw it and it didn't answer my question. I will highlight the relevant parts:

You say that this violence, in a lesser form, continues to the present day, but other than a few fringe hate groups that consist of an extremely small percentage of the population, I don't get what you're talking about... Could you give some examples of what you are talking about so I understand where your coming from on this?

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Did you hear of the white guy who called the cops because the a black guy fouled him during a basketball game? (cite: This Dude Called The Cops After A Hard Foul In Pickup Basketball. Here’s The Incident Report. | HuffPost), Did you hear about police holding famous actor Ving Rhimes at gunpoint because a neighbor claimed he was breaking into his own house? (Cite: The Community for Black Creativity and News | BLAVITY Did you hear about George Gomez who was brutally beaten by two off-duty cops for wearing camouflage. "He asked me if I was American. I told him yes, and he got mad because he said I was fake," said Gomez, who described himself as a U.S. native who was raised in Honduras before returning to live in New Orleans. Gomez, who speaks Spanish as well as English with an accent, also described being asked if he served in the military. Gomez said he did serve, including with the Louisiana National Guard, but the man who took issue with his clothing wasn't satisfied with any of his answers? (Cite: 'He asked me if I was American': New Orleans man allegedly beaten by NOPD officers tells story | Crime/Police | theadvocate.com) Did you hear about the Kingman, AZ where they stated that blacks aren't welcome in their city (Cite: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...em-racist-now-officials-are-promising-change/), Did you hear about the police officers in MS using a stun gun on a handcuffed suspect? (Cite: Dashcam footage shows Mississippi police officer firing stun gun at handcuffed suspect - ABC News) Did you hear about the police officers who killed a fleeing, unarmed black suspect? (Cite: https://kstp.com/news/protesters-in...eman-news-conference-thurman-blevins/5010365/) Did you hear about the white guy who literally said "there's nothing worse than being called a racist" (Cite: https://www.mediamatters.org/video/...here-nothing-worse-being-called-racist/220819) Did you hear about the avowed white supremacist kill a black woman in cold blood? (https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article215431265.html) Did you hear about gun-wielding white man who threatened, accosted, and violently beat a black woman over a ****ing parking spot? (Cite: https://www.newsweek.com/dallas-dee...in-shuffield-assault-punched-criminal-1384483) I could keep going but I'm getting bored. The litany of atrocities that whites and/or their military arm (law enforcement) inflict on people of color is incalculable.

Grim17 said:

You just said in effect, that if a person says they aren't racist, you don't believe them. How sweet of you.

Look, I have not encountered anyone who I believed to be racist, nor have I witnessed any "white person" acting out in a racist fashion for 30 years. If I have not seen an act of racism, why in the hell would someone admit to something they didn't do, and why would I call them out for it when it didn't happen?

It's obvious your first post was pretending to be something it wasn't. You hid your true agenda in order suck in enough people to preach to... If I would have known you were another one of those leftists who sees racism behind every tree and hiding behind every bush, I wouldn't have wasted my time trying to have an honest, reasoned discussion with you in the first place

Have fun with your decisive, destructive "college grade" leftist talking points... I'm out.

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1. White people lack the self-reflection to see racism. Which is why you've never in your life heard a white person agree that their behavior is racist. 2. Your post is white fragility in action which is why you are "leaving the stress-inducing situation" .

Give it to them, Robin.

Kuchiyose No Jutsu.

Robin DiAngelo said:

Racial stress results from an interruption to what is racially familiar. These interruptions can take a variety of forms and come from a range of sources, including:
• Suggesting that a white person’s viewpoint comes from a racialized
frame of reference (challenge to objectivity);
• People of color talking directly about their racial perspectives (challenge
to white racial codes);
• People of color choosing not to protect the racial feelings of white people
in regards to race (challenge to white racial expectations and need/entitlement
to racial comfort);
• People of color not being willing to tell their stories or answer questions
about their racial experiences (challenge to colonialist relations);
• A fellow white not providing agreement with one’s interpretations (challenge
to white solidarity);
• Receiving feedback that one’s behavior had a racist impact (challenge to
white liberalism);
• Suggesting that group membership is significant (challenge to individualism);
• An acknowledgment that access is unequal between racial groups (challenge
to meritocracy);
• Being presented with a person of color in a position of leadership (challenge
to white authority);
• Being presented with information about other racial groups through, for
example, movies in which people of color drive the action but are not in
stereotypical roles, or multicultural education (challenge to white centrality).

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Huey Freeman said:

So I was watching "Reconstruction" on PBS the other night, and was pretty shocked at the level of violence described toward newly freed blacks of the era both from private citizens and from actual governments of the day. Then I thought about it, and realized that it's continued forward until the present day against blacks, although in an arguably less violent form.

I don't get it. By that, I mean I don't get the hateful angry part. Similarly, I can't quite understand the virulent hate that's been around in Europe for centuries toward Jews.

While I don't agree with it at all, I can at least understand how white America might have had a patronizing, superior attitude. Or how medieval Europeans might resent Jews for being the chief moneylenders of their era (despite having been forced into it by Christian governments), and having a certain irritation toward them for being part of the group that crucified Jesus (despite Jesus himself having been a Jew).

But neither of those attitudes really lends themselves to being quite so angry, hateful and willing to do such horrible things. That's what I don't get. At all.

Anyone have any insight?

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Off-topic/Red:
I DVR'd that program, but I've not watched it because I haven't yet come by a "round tuit."


Blue (on-topic):
Yeah. Ain't that a peach. Folks, Christians, needed to borrow money, and Church law proscribed their being moneylenders, so Jews took up the banking/lending business, and the Christians fomented disdain of Jews because they were moneylenders.

• The Rise and Fall of Jewish Moneylending in the Middle Ages (Medici anyone?)
• The Morality of Moneylending: A Short History

What is there to say? Haters're gonna hate....For such folks, it's just a matter of choosing a politically palatable target. Jews have proven to be a "fitting" one for a very long time.

SDET said:

It boils down to what one is exposed to. If one is raised to believe that different groups are certain way, they will believe so unless they experience evidence to the contrary. Virtue signalling and attempting to shame racists just causes those racists to dig in their heels. My parents were hard core xenophobes. My mother went into orbit when I started to bring Latinas home some thirty years ago. I would point to the beautiful Latina in her living room and ask, "Do you know anyone better here in town that would give me the time of day"? The only reply she would have was an annoyed look.

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Red:
I understand that and how that happens...But I'd think that at some point in one's intellectual development, perhaps towards the end of high school or perhaps in college, reason would kick-in enough for one to think, "Hmmm...you know, 'such and such' is what I've always been told, but just thinking about it, just thinking about the human condition, that doesn't really make sense."

Mind, I don't think one'll have such a thought and then beat a path of discovery to determine whether what one was told is true. I would expect, however, that one might occasionally bother to, with some rigor, test the verity of what one'd been told. That is after all part of maturation -- examining the legitimacy of what one was told about the world in which we live, particularly by one's parents when one was a minor.

After all, if one doesn't independently, objectively question and refine, reject when it doesn't "hold water," what one's parents and mentors told one, how the hell is one supposed to be better than one's parents? And, while I can't speak for all parents, I can say that above all else, I want my kids to be better humans than I. They damn sure can't be that if, as adults, they don't challenge their parents' worldview, belief systems, philosophies, principles and ideologies.

That I, or any parent, may have given then poor or suboptimal input on a matter doesn't make me a rotten person; it merely makes me/us someone who didn't know any better/different at the time and thus gave the best input I/we could give at the time. As a parent, one knows one's fallible, and by the time one's kids are grown, one'd, at least I do, hope they of one learned that too and commenced disabusing themselves of the stuff I told them that wasn't "spot on."

Captain Adverse said:

In order to try to provide the "insight" you are requesting, one would have to agree with the bolded part of your post.

I do not agree with it. :no:

Now, I do recognize that there is a small minority of persons who hold to racist ideologies and act out from time to time, among whom exists a percentage of Whites.

However, I do not see "institutionalized racism" of the nature of the Reconstruction Period, or even of the Jim Crow period occurring as late as the 1960's.

I do see an enduring narrative that Black Americans still face wide-spread racist oppression. However, IMO that is a false narrative fostered by those pushing this "hierarchy of oppression" belief system of Identity Politics. That this is designed to create a sense of eternal conflict and feelings of entitlement which can be used to control various groups.

Perhaps you can cite some specific examples (beyond the random white supremacist who pops up from time to time) and then one might address your position.

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Red:
The lesser of two evils is still evil. So too are institutionalized racism of "this," "that" or "another" nature all institutionalized racism.

SDET said:

There are a significant number of white people that are still uncomfortable around black people. They hide it because society forces them to. It doesn't make them bad people. Shaming them is certainly not the solution.

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Blue:
Upon reading that, I cannot help but feel like I've heard before substantively that "apology." The most recent and widely known apology of that sort is the one Trump delivered when he declared the Charlottesville white supremacists are "good people."

Well, I'm sorry, I don't care how "uncomfortable" white supremacists -- Neo-Nazis, KKK members, and others of that ilk, be they members of some such group or merely ideological sympathizers -- are around Black folks, nor do I care what they do in their daily lives, white supremacists, fundamentally, are not good people.

Perhaps you and I must simply agree to disagree on that point? You tell me -- "yes" or "no" will do. I am averring that my stance on the matter will not change, so if you have something to say amounting to anything other than "white supremacists are not good people, period," save yourself the keystrokes.


Moving on....


Okay.

1. What "it" is it that "doesn't make them bad people?"
2. Now that you've stated what kind of persons "it" doesn't make them, what kind of persons does "it" make them?