Why we should be glad the ACA may be dead.

I'm sure democrats will not see it but this decision makes sense. The ACA was only deemed constitutional because of the mandate requiring a penalty to be paid if you did not purchase insurance. Allowing the ACA to go into effect as part of the laws of commerce. With the requirement to pay a penalty gone by vote of the Congress the ACA is now not legal according to the very decision that was originally made by the Supreme Court.
In addition the ACA may have had some good intent but the bill itself was full of flaws. Cost was ridiculous and was only getting worse with the guarantees by the government to supplement insurance companies cost. Because of cost many did not purchase from the ( Types of Health Insurance under Obamacare) exchanges with cost being around $440 for individuals and $1187 for a family. The deductibles were also so high that many who bought the insurance felt they could not afford to pay the deductibles in they used the insurance. So yes some people bought insurance but could not afford to use it.
What we should be hoping for is that the President will either come up with a great and affordable alternative, or the President and the Republicans and Democrats will be able to put their politics aside and come up with a compromise plan that fixes the problems that the ACA contains.

"Be glad!"

(but don't be old or poor or unemployed or have a pre-existing condition...etc...)

Would think progressives will be jumping for joy as this opens the door for single payer. Lets face it, nobody wants to go back to insurance pre ACA and now with the campaigning for 2020, most support single payer or Medicare for all. This could be the opening they wanted. GOP will be screaming for the ACA in a couple years once UHC comes around.

Manc Skipper said:

"Be glad!"

(but don't be old or poor or unemployed or have a pre-existing condition...etc...)

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Old and poor were covered before OC.

No reason to not have a job.

pre-existing condition will likely stay covered.

Integrityrespec said:

I'm sure democrats will not see it but this decision makes sense. The ACA was only deemed constitutional because of the mandate requiring a penalty to be paid if you did not purchase insurance. Allowing the ACA to go into effect as part of the laws of commerce. With the requirement to pay a penalty gone by vote of the Congress the ACA is now not legal according to the very decision that was originally made by the Supreme Court.
In addition the ACA may have had some good intent but the bill itself was full of flaws. Cost was ridiculous and was only getting worse with the guarantees by the government to supplement insurance companies cost. Because of cost many did not purchase from the ( Types of Health Insurance under Obamacare) exchanges with cost being around $440 for individuals and $1187 for a family. The deductibles were also so high that many who bought the insurance felt they could not afford to pay the deductibles in they used the insurance. So yes some people bought insurance but could not afford to use it.
What we should be hoping for is that the President will either come up with a great and affordable alternative, or the President and the Republicans and Democrats will be able to put their politics aside and come up with a compromise plan that fixes the problems that the ACA contains.

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Yes, there were problems with the ACA. When it was being written up, Obama really tried to reach out across the aisle to the GOP members of congress for input. But all he got was a giant big middle finger. And now the relentlessness and vindictiveness with which Trump is going after Obamacare makes it clear that for him, this is not about good new ideas, or reaching out, or compromising, or fixing, or putting our heads together to pragmatically address problems in a positive way. It's just Trump's personal vendetta against a black man who dared to become president, and just wanting to completely crush under foot and erase any legacy he may have had. That's all.

Trump's world is simple. Don't try to read more into it than there really is.

ataraxia said:

Yes, there were problems with the ACA. When it was being written up, Obama really tried to reach out across the aisle to the GOP members of congress for input. But all he got was a giant big middle finger. And now the relentlessness and vindictiveness with which Trump is going after Obamacare makes it clear that for him, this is not about good new ideas, or reaching out, or compromising, or putting our heads together to pragmatically fix a problem. It's just Trump's personal vendetta against a black man who dared to become president, and just wanting to completely crush under foot and erase any legacy he may have had. That's all.

Trump's world is simple. Don't try to read more into it than there really is.

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All of that is just so much bull ****.

Obama never crossed any aisle, ever. He and the Dems shoved this monstrosity down America's throat and the cost are in the trillions.

Not only that but it left millions uninsured.

WCH said:

Old and poor were covered before OC.

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Many of the poor were not. You must not have worked in any healthcare settings. Many people had to decide between affording their medicine or their evening meal.

ataraxia said:

Many of the poor were not. You must not have worked in any healthcare settings. Many people had to decide between affording their medicine or their evening meal.

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So OC pushed grandma over the cliff.

WCH said:

All of that is just so much bull ****.

Obama never crossed any aisle, ever.

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Sure he did. Maybe you were too busy watching Fox News to know what was happening. But then again, it was even on Fox News, so you have no excuse. This is from 2009 Fox News:
Obama Reaches Out to Republicans on Health Care, but Bipartisan Bill Looking Unlikely | Fox News

He and the Dems shoved this monstrosity down America's throat and the cost are in the trillions.

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Nope. That was his #1 campaign promise. And America voted him, along with two houses of congress, to do it.

Not only that but it left millions uninsured.

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The number of uninsured has dropped to below 10% for the first time in its history. So not sure what you are talking about there...

WCH said:

So OC pushed grandma over the cliff.

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Not sure what that's supposed to mean. Public health studies are showing that it has improved several public health measures, especially for controlling chronic conditions like diabetes. We may soon be catching up on many public health measures to other developed nations of the world. We used to be just above Bangladesh on many of them.

Manc Skipper said:

"Be glad!"

(but don't be old or poor or unemployed or have a pre-existing condition...etc...)

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Obamacare doesn't help you if you're old or poor or unemployed.
In fact it doesn't help you if you have a part-time job or make less than $11,000 adjust gross income per year.

Barnacle said:

Obamacare doesn't help you if you're old or poor or unemployed.
In fact it doesn't help you if you have a part-time job or make less than $11,000 adjust gross income per year.

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There are other avenues for those folks. The ACA filled a big hole in the system.

If you are worried about others who may not be getting coverage, what is the plan to address it? And why, instead of telling us your ideas on those, are you just threatening to destroy the little bit that's already there?

ataraxia said:

There are other avenues for those folks. The ACA filled a big hole in the system.
If you are worried about others who may not be getting coverage, what is the plan to address it? And why, instead of telling us your ideas on those, are you just threatening to destroy the little bit that's already there?

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I'm definitely not worried about others who may not be getting coverage through Obamacare as they were getting coverage before (old - Medicare, poor - Medicaid), but I feel sorry for all the part-timers - like in the fast-food industry - that were supposed to be protected under Obamacare but instead received the middle finger from Obama.

WCH said:

Old and poor were covered before OC.

No reason to not have a job.

pre-existing condition will likely stay covered.

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Sure it will :roll:

Barnacle said:

I'm definitely not worried about others who may not be getting coverage through Obamacare as they were getting coverage before (old - Medicare, poor - Medicaid), but I feel sorry for all the part-timers - like in the fast-food industry - that were supposed to be protected under Obamacare but instead received the middle finger from Obama.

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OK. I think most Democrats would be totally open to try to filling in those gaps. What is going to be accomplished by gutting what is already there?

Integrityrespec said:

What we should be hoping for is that the President will either come up with a great and affordable alternative.....

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Hoping for? Hoping for? Why in the hell did Trump instruct his DoJ to have the entire ACA declared unconstitutional by the courts with no Plan B in his pocket?

Do you realize such a ruling will affect virtually every American, every doctor, clinic, hospital, insurance company, employer, and everyone with Medicare/Medicaid?

Hoping for? Hoping for here is utter madness and the ultimate in utter stupidity. The very definition of leaping to the rocks below before looking.

ataraxia said:

OK. I think most Democrats would be totally open to try to filling in those gaps. What is going to be accomplished by gutting what is already there?

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They already did ... by gently "forcing" states to expand their medicaid program. So far, 37 states have sort of "expanded".

Rogue Valley said:

Hoping for? Hoping for? Why in the hell did Trump instruct his DoJ to have the entire ACA declared unconstitutional by the courts with no Plan B in his pocket?

Do you realize such a ruling will affect virtually every American, every doctor, clinic, hospital, insurance company, employer, and everyone with Medicare/Medicaid?

Hoping for? Hoping for here is utter madness and the ultimate in utter stupidity. The very definition of leaping to the rocks below before looking.

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... and you know that how?

pilot16 said:

Would think progressives will be jumping for joy as this opens the door for single payer. Lets face it, nobody wants to go back to insurance pre ACA and now with the campaigning for 2020, most support single payer or Medicare for all. This could be the opening they wanted. GOP will be screaming for the ACA in a couple years once UHC comes around.

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That most drops considerably when they are asked to pay more in federal taxes to get that "free" benefit. Which M4A actual bill has majority support?

Integrityrespec said:

I'm sure democrats will not see it but this decision makes sense. The ACA was only deemed constitutional because of the mandate requiring a penalty to be paid if you did not purchase insurance.

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Nope, wrong. Only one specific component (the tax penalties for not having health insurance) was affirmed in that specific SCOTUS ruling. There is a lot more to the ACA than the mandates.

Allowing the ACA to go into effect as part of the laws of commerce. With the requirement to pay a penalty gone by vote of the Congress the ACA is now not legal according to the very decision that was originally made by the Supreme Court.

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Nope, nope, nope, not even close.

The SCOTUS affirmed that Congress can levy a tax on anyone who doesn't have health insurance. That's basically all they said.

This latest lower court ruling advances a shaky and unprecedented claim that because Congress eliminated the mandate, the entire law is invalid. That's pretty much insane, and has nothing to do with the previous SCOTUS ruling. If affirmed, it would also bite Republicans in the ass, as it would make it quite easy for Democrats to unravel all sorts of laws Republicans like by removing a small part of the law.

In addition the ACA may have had some good intent but the bill itself was full of flaws. Cost was ridiculous and was only getting worse with the guarantees by the government to supplement insurance companies cost.

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Or, not. Premiums were increasing by huge amounts long before the ACA took effect, and there were several years of declining costs. The cheap pre-ACA plans were pretty ****ty, offering little coverage with high deductibles that was barely worth the price.

Maybe you should watch less Fox News.

What we should be hoping for is that the President will either come up with a great and affordable alternative

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Sorry, but... no. Republicans have had nearly a decade to offer an alternative plan, and they don't have one. Trump has had two years to come up with one as well, and he's got nothing.

The reason why they've got nothing is because the ACA is, in fact, the closest thing we can get to a free-market solution. Its core, including the Medicaid expansion and the mandate, were conservative inventions! Mitt Romney called the mandate the "personal responsibility principle" because it forced people to pay for something everyone would eventually need.

The only other way to reduce costs and increase coverage is single-payer or socialize most of the system. That's it. Those are your choices. Socialized medicine, or single-payer, or ACA.

It's also pretty clear at this point that the Republicans do not give a **** about reducing the costs of health care. They really don't. They want an unregulated market, but that utterly fails when it comes to medical care, because when you have a heart attack you can't comparison shop to get the lowest rates, and you can't pick a less effective medication because it costs less.

So, you'll just have to wait until a Democrat gets into office, and sets up a "Medicare For All" system.

Visbek said:

Nope, wrong. Only one specific component (the tax penalties for not having health insurance) was affirmed in that specific SCOTUS ruling. There is a lot more to the ACA than the mandates.



Nope, nope, nope, not even close.

The SCOTUS affirmed that Congress can levy a tax on anyone who doesn't have health insurance. That's basically all they said.

This latest lower court ruling advances a shaky and unprecedented claim that because Congress eliminated the mandate, the entire law is invalid. That's pretty much insane, and has nothing to do with the previous SCOTUS ruling. If affirmed, it would also bite Republicans in the ass, as it would make it quite easy for Democrats to unravel all sorts of laws Republicans like by removing a small part of the law.



Or, not. Premiums were increasing by huge amounts long before the ACA took effect, and there were several years of declining costs. The cheap pre-ACA plans were pretty ****ty, offering little coverage with high deductibles that was barely worth the price.

Maybe you should watch less Fox News.

Sorry, but... no. Republicans have had nearly a decade to offer an alternative plan, and they don't have one. Trump has had two years to come up with one as well, and he's got nothing.

The reason why they've got nothing is because the ACA is, in fact, the closest thing we can get to a free-market solution. Its core, including the Medicaid expansion and the mandate, were conservative inventions! Mitt Romney called the mandate the "personal responsibility principle" because it forced people to pay for something everyone would eventually need.

The only other way to reduce costs and increase coverage is single-payer or socialize most of the system. That's it. Those are your choices. Socialized medicine, or single-payer, or ACA.

It's also pretty clear at this point that the Republicans do not give a **** about reducing the costs of health care. They really don't. They want an unregulated market, but that utterly fails when it comes to medical care, because when you have a heart attack you can't comparison shop to get the lowest rates, and you can't pick a less effective medication because it costs less.

So, you'll just have to wait until a Democrat gets into office, and sets up a "Medicare For All" system.

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Glad to see you doing what needs to be done here, thank you.

Barnacle said:

They already did ... by gently "forcing" states to expand their medicaid program. So far, 37 states have sort of "expanded".

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That’s what’s being threatened right now. We are not talking about expanding to cover those groups you mentioned earlier. We are talking about contracting and taking away the coverage that’s already there even now.

Barnacle said:

... and you know that how?

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Where is it? Link to it. Dazzle us.

Integrityrespec said:

I'm sure democrats will not see it but this decision makes sense. The ACA was only deemed constitutional because of the mandate requiring a penalty to be paid if you did not purchase insurance. Allowing the ACA to go into effect as part of the laws of commerce. With the requirement to pay a penalty gone by vote of the Congress the ACA is now not legal according to the very decision that was originally made by the Supreme Court.
In addition the ACA may have had some good intent but the bill itself was full of flaws. Cost was ridiculous and was only getting worse with the guarantees by the government to supplement insurance companies cost. Because of cost many did not purchase from the ( Types of Health Insurance under Obamacare) exchanges with cost being around $440 for individuals and $1187 for a family. The deductibles were also so high that many who bought the insurance felt they could not afford to pay the deductibles in they used the insurance. So yes some people bought insurance but could not afford to use it.
What we should be hoping for is that the President will either come up with a great and affordable alternative, or the President and the Republicans and Democrats will be able to put their politics aside and come up with a compromise plan that fixes the problems that the ACA contains.

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Yea, right. It's been about 10 years now that the GOP has been trying to repeal ACA and in that time they have never, not once, come up with a realistic health care plan, and now they're going to do it? When people really are concerned about something, they do something about it, other than talk it to death. I'll believe it this fabulous Republican healthcare plan that insures more people at lower costs and protects pre-existing conditions when I see it.

ataraxia said:

That’s what’s being threatened right now. We are not talking about expanding to cover those groups you mentioned earlier. We are talking about contracting and taking away the coverage that’s already there even now.

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Maybe because the states with expanded Medicare are hemorrhaging?!?