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Thread: Dissecting the presidents speech

  1. #21
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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I agree. That's never happened. Are you under the impression that it has?

    Not even sure why you'd bring it up nor what it has (even remotely) to do with what we are discussing. There's an entire section devoted to conspiracy theories if interested.




    https://www.influencewatch.org/non-p...sin-fronteras/


    They paid to buss them there, then you all dumped them there.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    https://www.influencewatch.org/non-p...sin-fronteras/


    They paid to buss them there, then you all dumped them there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und
    Please refrain from personal bull**** and focus on the discussion
    You should heed your own advice and refrain from the personal stuff. I didn't dump anybody anywhere. Trumps dishonesty/falsehoods in the speech are plenty enough for 1 thread, we need not add any on top of that.

    But ok, I see a link to a website created by a right wing think tank (correct me if I'm wrong on that) who claim they are trying to get immigrants in to the US illegally. As far as I can tell the organization attempts to help refugees and migrants get out of harms way, file paperwork, give them legal advice, apply for refugee status etc. But I can't find anything corroborating that they are trying to get people here illegally. Or that they are funded by Soros or that they are even a mainstream liberal group. And I've also seen plenty of sources stating that these caravans are nothing new. It has happened before.

    I can't see where you've backed up any of your claims or how the incredibly biased source (that references world net daily LOL) shows me to be wrong in any way.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  3. #23
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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    You should heed your own advice and refrain from the personal stuff. I didn't dump anybody anywhere. Trumps dishonesty/falsehoods in the speech are plenty enough for 1 thread, we need not add any on top of that.

    But ok, I see a link to a website created by a right wing think tank (correct me if I'm wrong on that) who claim they are trying to get immigrants in to the US illegally. As far as I can tell the organization attempts to help refugees and migrants get out of harms way, file paperwork, give them legal advice, apply for refugee status etc. But I can't find anything corroborating that they are trying to get people here illegally. Or that they are funded by Soros or that they are even a mainstream liberal group. And I've also seen plenty of sources stating that these caravans are nothing new. It has happened before.

    I can't see where you've backed up any of your claims or how the incredibly biased source (that references world net daily LOL) shows me to be wrong in any way.



    So the blah blah fronteras group didin't fund the caravan?



    I haven't made a personal comment at all. please do the same.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So the blah blah fronteras group didin't fund the caravan?



    I haven't made a personal comment at all. please do the same.
    Why are you asking me? I never brought them up. You made the claim that american liberals and Soros funded the caravan. And when questioned you point to a non-prophet immigration group that assists refugees to get out of harms ways and help with filing refugee status etc. If you could stay on topic it would be easier to discuss this. If you want to argue that this immigration group paid for and organized the caravan and it's never been done before then I'm all ears.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Why are you asking me? I never brought them up. You made the claim that american liberals and Soros funded the caravan. And when questioned you point to a non-prophet immigration group that assists refugees to get out of harms ways and help with filing refugee status etc. If you could stay on topic it would be easier to discuss this. If you want to argue that this immigration group paid for and organized the caravan and it's never been done before then I'm all ears.



    jeesh


    who paid to get the migrants to the border by those buses the media didn't show you.... (unless you believe the migrants chose to walk an extra 1000 miles to get to tj instead of brownsville and did so at an average daily speed of over 20mph).


    Google pueblo sin frontera.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    jeesh


    who paid to get the migrants to the border by those buses the media didn't show you.... (unless you believe the migrants chose to walk an extra 1000 miles to get to tj instead of brownsville and did so at an average daily speed of over 20mph).


    Google pueblo sin frontera.
    So you're argument is that this immigration group who has been assisting with and organizing caravans also organized this caravan and paid for busses? I don't see any information supporting this, ut I have no idea if it's true or not (because you haven't provided any).

    From their website:
    At the same time, we have asked Mexican institutions to comply with the laws that govern the issuance of humanitarian visas and the recognition of refugee status, because the system that currently exists for these processes in Mexico is full of irregularities and human rights violations. These include the incarceration of asylum seekers, the confinement of asylum applicants to violent and impoverished regions and cities, arbitrary and illegal delays, and a lack of infrastructure for addressing refugees’ most urgent humanitarian needs.

    Pueblo Sin Fronteras also coordinates two migrant shelters in Sonora --in one of the most violent and exposed border zones in the country-- which provide food, a roof, and humanitarian assistance to hundreds of people each month. We have built community organizing campaigns against the separation of families in the United States and against police violence in Tijuana, among others.

    On October 12th of this year, when we learned about the Caminata Migrante beginning in San Pedro Sula, Honduras, we began to closely follow all the information we could find. We were aware of the delicate electoral moment in the United States and change of administration in Mexico, which this caravan would struggle to navigate. However, we also appreciate the critical conditions expelling people, principally but not only from Honduras, and we understood that the emergence of the Caminata Migrante demonstrated how hunger, death, and the desire to preserve life were the true causes of the exodus, and not, as some have tried to misinform in public forums, any opportunistic political calculation.

    For these reasons, as human rights defenders, we recognize the need to offer direct accompaniment, as far as we were able, due to the situation of abuse and use of force to violate human rights that we began to observe from the moment the Caminata began to cross through an increasingly militarized frontier between Honduras and Guatemala, and above all upon arriving at the border between Guatemala and México.

    A group of volunteers from Pueblo Sin Fronteras traveled to southern México to accompany the members of the Caminata, which from that moment was recognized as a mass “Exodus”, now that the mass migration which has been occurring for years in this part of the continent has finally made itself visible due to the collective character of the Caminata.

    As we have accompanied this Exodus, we have walked, slept, eaten, and built community alongside the migrants who drive it forward. In our previous work of accompaniment and defense of human rights we have built channels of communication with authorities, public safety agencies, and civil society. On the road with this Exodus, those same agencies have requested our presence on a variety of occasions as participants in facilitating the distribution of humanitarian aid and the protection of human safety in critical moments. We have sought to serve as a link when it is effective and when the Exodus itself requires it in order to travel more safely through especially dangerous regions, despite the circumstances and obstacles imposed in many cases by the federal government and by various state governments, despite the risks along the road, and despite the criminalization that has been encouraged by unethical media outlets.
    If they started or paid for the caravan then they aren't taking credit. If you have evidence to the contrary I'm still all ears.

    But now I'm not even sure what you're argument is at this point. When you started it was that american liberals and soros created and funded this caravan, which has never happened before, in order to create chaos at the border. In reality, you've shown no evidence that Soros or american liberals were involved or funded it, you've shown that an immigration non-prophet apparently offered some assistance at some point and that these types of caravans have happened in the past.

    You're just proving my point further and further. Caravans have happened before and the processes we have in place took care of it. People filed for refugee status, they were accepted or denied and life went on. It's only chaos now because the president has changed policies to make things that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    So you're argument is that this immigration group who has been assisting with and organizing caravans also organized this caravan and paid for busses? I don't see any information supporting this, ut I have no idea if it's true or not (because you haven't provided any).

    From their website:


    If they started or paid for the caravan then they aren't taking credit. If you have evidence to the contrary I'm still all ears.

    But now I'm not even sure what you're argument is at this point. When you started it was that american liberals and soros created and funded this caravan, which has never happened before, in order to create chaos at the border. In reality, you've shown no evidence that Soros or american liberals were involved or funded it, you've shown that an immigration non-prophet apparently offered some assistance at some point and that these types of caravans have happened in the past.

    You're just proving my point further and further. Caravans have happened before and the processes we have in place took care of it. People filed for refugee status, they were accepted or denied and life went on. It's only chaos now because the president has changed policies to make things that way.





    1. where there buses?

    2. who paid for them


    more importantly

    3. Who's paying to get the rejected ones home?
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    1. where there buses?

    2. who paid for them


    more importantly

    3. Who's paying to get the rejected ones home?
    You caught us. Me, Soros and hollywood arranged the caravan and paid for buses and for the people to leave their homes , which has never been done before, in order to cause chaos at the border.


    If you want to push conspiracy theories, provide evidence, not just claims that aren't even backed up by right wing partisan sources.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  9. #29
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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    He keeps lying about how drugs come into this country. He said 90% of heroine comes across the border. No. Over 90% of drugs come in via water. And what little comes across the southern border is actually smuggled in via LEGAL ports of entry, not open border land.

    So that was a blatant lie right out of the gate. But other than that, it was a pretty well done speech, for Trump.
    <-- That is a winky face. If I use it in a post then that means I was more interested in being silly, sarcastic or hyperbolic than being accurate, factual or sincere at that particular moment.

  10. #30
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    Re: Dissecting the presidents speech

    PRESIDENT TRUMP: My fellow Americans, tonight I’m speaking to you because there is a growing humanitarian and security crisis at our southern border. Every day, Customs and Border Protection agents encounter thousands of illegal immigrants trying to enter our country. We are out of space to hold them, and we have no way to promptly return them back home to their country. America proudly welcomes millions of lawful immigrants who enrich our society and contribute to our nation, but all Americans are hurt by uncontrolled illegal migration.


    1. Assuming we don't have space to hold them, it's because he decided to indefinitely hold AND separate children from parents. So now we've got to care for children we can't reconnect with parents. But he didn't have to. Obama used to hold them together with parents, but was ordered to release them by a court because of the 1997 Flores settlement. Hence, "catch and release", which had a success rate in the high 90s (percentage).

    We didn't have a space crisis until Trump decided to throw the usual spoiled grey-brown and green-tinged meat to his base.



    2. We do not proudly welcome lawful immigrations. The Trump administration has been curtailing legal immigration:

    - Reduce ceiling of refugee admissions from 110,000 to 55,000 in 2017. 45,000 in 2018. But also dragging heels, only resettling about 20,000 of that number. Reduced to 30,000 in 2019.
    Refugees, mind you, not merely people who want to be citizens because it's nice.

    - Without necessary increases in staffing, introducing new requirements on top of already extensive requirements (ie, in-person interview for all employment-based applications), for example, and others, thereby resulting in a 35% increase in the backlog as of 1/1/2018.

    - New policy allowing USCIS to deny visa/green card that is missing something or that contains an error without giving applicants a chance to fix. Possible result: those with valid visas seeking to lawfully immigrate instead end up getting deported because denial results in red tape that does not allow them to refile in time.

    - Turning away asylum seekers at the border, a violation of law.

    - Changes in asylum seeking, ie, deadly domestic/gang violence deemed not grounds for asylum. (Indeed, a number of the ones we turned away quickly got murdered).

    - Limiting pre-existing reasons for immigration judges and Board to administratively close immigration proceedings in low priority cases. Speeding up immigration cases by, for example, voiding immigration law precedent guaranteeing asylum-seekers the right to testify before an immigration judge could deny application. Or, requiring them to complete 700 immigrations a year - half a day per case, allowing no more than 3 days to elapse before hearing to case completion. (Ironically, this will bog things up further as rushed cases will be more frequently appealed).

    This is just the tip of the iceberg. They are simultaneously making legal immigration harder, telling asylum-seekers to get stuffed, and more. We are not welcoming. The administration is Xenophobic. Suddenly doing what they do can only contribute to more illegals, but beyond that, no, we're far from welcoming. And to present this as some kind of crisis that is happening is straight-up dishonest.





    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/u...ce-asylum.html

    https://www.afsc.org/blogs/news-and-...stem-explained

    https://www.brennancenter.org/Jeff-s...igration-court

    https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1064086/download

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/rese...-policy-shifts




    Now, one might whine that these aren't actually "lies" he told, but rather things that are either his fault or results of things that are his fault. **** that. Presenting them as the reason to do what he wants when he created the situation AND when doing what he wants won't fix it is pure bull**** and I'm just about done distinguishing between intentional bull**** and lying.

    I fully expect the usual suspects to declare that any links magically don't work or are biased or <insert BS> therefore they won't read them, therefore I need to "give me evidence." Anyone planning to do that can [censored] because I know your game and so does everyone else.

    And hey....actually learning what you're talking about takes time and is no fun. Much better to bray loudly and high-five everyone telling the same lies as you are, right?

    all Americans are hurt by uncontrolled illegal migration.
    Not Trump properties. Many have profited from illegals.
    Last edited by Mr Person; 01-09-19 at 06:08 PM.

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