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Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

tacomancer said:
Your characterization of progressivism is interesting. Of course people will work for it, but yeah, there would be some redistribution so that work matters for people in all walks of life. The system I look most towards these days is Germany.
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So what is your expertise on Germany as from all that I hear things aren't going well there. Why do you talk about something you don't even understand or know?

More Bad News For Germany's Economy
 
mrjurrs said:
What country do you live in? You are not claiming that America offers equal opportunity are you?
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I hold myself accountable for poor choices I have made in the past and YES I have had equal opportunity and took advantage of it growing up in an upper lower class household. Not sure where you live but I grew up in the Midwest before moving to TX with my job. You appear to be someone who blames others for your own failures, why haven't you had equal opportunity, could it be your fault and attitude?
 
Conservative said:
I hold myself accountable for poor choices I have made in the past and YES I have had equal opportunity and took advantage of it growing up in an upper lower class household. Not sure where you live but I grew up in the Midwest before moving to TX with my job. You appear to be someone who blames others for your own failures, why haven't you had equal opportunity, could it be your fault and attitude?
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Public education depends on property taxes for funding. Rich zip codes provide greater opportunity than poor zip codes. Born a women, or a minority, or disabled...where does their equal opportunity come in. You know nothing about me, but you sound like a white male.
 
mrjurrs said:
Public education depends on property taxes for funding. Rich zip codes provide greater opportunity than poor zip codes. Born a women, or a minority, or disabled...where does their equal opportunity come in. You know nothing about me, but you sound like a white male.
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Wow, talk about whining and complaining, what prevents you from moving to one of those rich school districts? Stop complaining about your personal choice where to live. My county all goes to the same Independent school district and all schools are exceptional, there are poor districts in this county so all you are doing is complaining about something you don't understand
 
Integrityrespec said:
Nice to try to call what you want to do Progressive when its regressive. Take away from those who earn it and redistribute it to someone else, even to those who may not be working. Socialism is more government control not less, it is determining what you get by what the government thinks you need. So basically you are ok with the government determining your worth and your needs as in, I make 50,000 and you make 30, 000 and now we are both going to get 25,000 because thats all the government thinks we need and the other 30,000 can go to someone who chooses not to work at all and the government can rake in an extra 5,000 in taxes.
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Yes, I am aware of the implications.
 
Conservative said:
And you just don't care, not surprising that you are aware but have no understanding as to the consequences of implementing your ideology
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If the consequences are being like Canada or Northern Europe, then those consequences are a good thing by me!
 
tacomancer said:
If the consequences are being like Canada or Northern Europe, then those consequences are a good thing by me!
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So you are an expert on Canada and Northern Europe? Seems you are one of the very young who believes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Any idea how those social programs are funded? Do you have any understanding of the word incentive? You think that the greatest economy on the face of the earth was created by liberal values? Go back to the question, what does incentive mean?
 
Conservative said:
So you are an expert on Canada and Northern Europe? Seems you are one of the very young who believes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Any idea how those social programs are funded? Do you have any understanding of the word incentive? You think that the greatest economy on the face of the earth was created by liberal values? Go back to the question, what does incentive mean?
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This is not my profession, but I feel I have sufficient expertise to satisfy my curiosity. Of course, I accept that no system/economy is perfect or necessarily greener in all dimensions.
Taxes
Yes
Yes
Incentive - reward or punishment that motivates effort
 
tacomancer said:
This is not my profession, but I feel I have sufficient expertise to satisfy my curiosity. Of course, I accept that no system/economy is perfect or necessarily greener in all dimensions.
Taxes
Yes
Yes
Incentive - reward or punishment that motivates effort
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Great answers so you would raise taxes to punish effort? That is what Canada has done and incentive is what has created our 22 trillion dollar economy and given people like you the chance to get a share of it. I posted an article on Germany, why didn't you read it? I just got back from Canada and costs there are outrageous. You don't seem to have a problem taking from the rich and not earning what you have. Is that the way you were raised? You don't seem to understand that giving something to someone else destroys their incentive and lack of incentive makes them dependent
 
What is wrong with nationalizing the physical layer of infrastructure?

The public sector is liable for ensuring access to Government, regardless.
 
Conservative said:
Great answers so you would raise taxes to punish effort? That is what Canada has done and incentive is what has created our 22 trillion dollar economy and given people like you the chance to get a share of it. I posted an article on Germany, why didn't you read it? I just got back from Canada and costs there are outrageous. You don't seem to have a problem taking from the rich and not earning what you have. Is that the way you were raised? You don't seem to understand that giving something to someone else destroys their incentive and lack of incentive makes them dependent
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There would a loss of incentive in taxes, agreed. However, there would be a gain incentive due to increased social/personal stability as well. In balance, incentive in total increases for anyone who isn't a conservative ideologue.

Because it was a waste of time

My parent's philosophy has very little to do with with mine (In fact, my mom and dad both have wildly different philosophies from each other, even)

I understand incentive well enough to go beyond simplistic considerations of a demand curve to other aspects of society.
 
Conservative said:
Wow, talk about whining and complaining, what prevents you from moving to one of those rich school districts? Stop complaining about your personal choice where to live. My county all goes to the same Independent school district and all schools are exceptional, there are poor districts in this county so all you are doing is complaining about something you don't understand
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Conservative, your opinions and a quarter will buy you a paper somewhere, but they don't advance your argument. It is surprising that poor people don't just move into rich areas (right). What is your equally simple instructions for women, minorities or disabled people? Do you live in Lake Wobegone, where all the children are above average. Your answers are textbook 'white privilege'.
 
tacomancer said:
There would a loss of incentive in taxes, agreed. However, there would be a gain incentive due to increased social/personal stability as well. In balance, incentive in total increases for anyone who isn't a conservative ideologue.

Because it was a waste of time

My parent's philosophy has very little to do with with mine (In fact, my mom and dad both have wildly different philosophies from each other, even)

I understand incentive well enough to go beyond simplistic considerations of a demand curve to other aspects of society.
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If that was true then the massive social spending in this country would have reduced dependence and it hasn't. The entitlement mentality that you seem to have is a problem so many others have as well. You apparently don't understand incentive and how it impacts individuals. giving people what they want reduces incentive and does nothing more than create dependence which is why we have the homeless problem all over the nation today. It has everything to do with the liberal ideology that there aren't any negative consequences for poor personal choices. I never expected anything from anyone other than an opportunity which I received and took advantage of thus raising a family with two great kids. It can be done and all it takes is effort and eliminating that entitlement mentality that you have
 
mrjurrs said:
Conservative, your opinions and a quarter will buy you a paper somewhere, but they don't advance your argument. It is surprising that poor people don't just move into rich areas (right). What is your equally simple instructions for women, minorities or disabled people? Do you live in Lake Wobegone, where all the children are above average. Your answers are textbook 'white privilege'.
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Life is about choices and in spite of what the left tells you are there are negative consequences for poor choices. I was poor, lived in a small town but learned personal responsibility quickly. That lesson taught me well and I never expected anything from anyone other than an opportunity. Poor people have choices and when you provide for those poor people without conditions it is a hand out not a hand up. People are born into poor families because of choices their family members made and you will never be successful with the attitude that you have. Your posts are textbook liberalism of jealousy, class envy and your solution is to take more from those who do produce. All handouts do is create dependence and career politicians with power
 
Conservative said:
If that was true then the massive social spending in this country would have reduced dependence and it hasn't. The entitlement mentality that you seem to have is a problem so many others have as well. You apparently don't understand incentive and how it impacts individuals. giving people what they want reduces incentive and does nothing more than create dependence which is why we have the homeless problem all over the nation today. It has everything to do with the liberal ideology that there aren't any negative consequences for poor personal choices. I never expected anything from anyone other than an opportunity which I received and took advantage of thus raising a family with two great kids. It can be done and all it takes is effort and eliminating that entitlement mentality that you have
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Creation or reduction of dependence is not really a highly useful metric. What matters is stability and achievement. If social systems are stable, then people are free to pursue opportunity because of reduced opportunity cost. We see that sort of benefit in scandanavian societies in and not here, and this is due to our methodology vs their for social spending targets.
 
tacomancer said:
Creation or reduction of dependence is not really a highly useful metric. What matters is stability and achievement. If social systems are stable, then people are free to pursue opportunity because of reduced opportunity cost. We see that sort of benefit in scandanavian societies in and not here, and this is due to our methodology vs their for social spending targets.
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Human nature doesn't support your assumptions. when you give people something that they haven't earned they don't respect it nearly as much and that does create more dependence. Typical liberalism, class envy, jealousy, and the entitlement mentality

Not sure were you developed this attitude but if you want to be successful that attitude has to change




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Conservative said:
Human nature doesn't support your assumptions. when you give people something that they haven't earned they don't respect it nearly as much and that does create more dependence. Typical liberalism, class envy, jealousy, and the entitlement mentality

Not sure were you developed this attitude but if you want to be successful that attitude has to change




Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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Human nature supports my assumptions just fine or else we would not have successful models in the real world to draw from.

In terms of my personal success, like I said, I have pretty much gotten everything I want out life, that includes my finances.
 
tacomancer said:
Human nature supports my assumptions just fine or else we would not have successful models in the real world to draw from.

In terms of my personal success, like I said, I have pretty much gotten everything I want out life, that includes my finances.
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Then by all means you have freedom of travel, go live in one of those utopia countries. You have "gotten everything you want out of life?" Now isn't that special, how much of it was given to you? You don't seem to grasp the concept of earning anything
 
Conservative said:
Then by all means you have freedom of travel, go live in one of those utopia countries. You have "gotten everything you want out of life?" Now isn't that special, how much of it was given to you? You don't seem to grasp the concept of earning anything
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You are correct, I could try to move to one of those countries and in my situation, it could probably happen (doe to personal circumstances)

I was raised in a pretty rich neighborhood in North Fulton Country in the 90s, which, at the time, was the richest area of the state (Georgia) and thus got a great education. After that, I have been largely on my own, paying off my own student loans, vehicles, and (within the next 5 years I think) my house, all being my own effort. Largely ... because I grasp many concepts well ;) (career wise at least)
 
tacomancer said:
You are correct, I could try to move to one of those countries and in my situation, it could probably happen (doe to personal circumstances)

I was raised in a pretty rich neighborhood in North Fulton Country in the 90s, which, at the time, was the richest area of the state (Georgia) and thus got a great education. After that, I have been largely on my own, paying off my own student loans, vehicles, and (within the next 5 years I think) my house, all being my own effort. Largely ... because I grasp many concepts well ;) (career wise at least)
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Then why are you trying to overturn the economy that allowed you to succeed in your personal life?
 
Conservative said:
Then why are you trying to overturn the economy that allowed you to succeed in your personal life?
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I am luckier than most and I am thankful for that, but while I have received a good life in spite of the system, others are not so lucky.
 
Conservative said:
Life is about choices and in spite of what the left tells you are there are negative consequences for poor choices. I was poor, lived in a small town but learned personal responsibility quickly. That lesson taught me well and I never expected anything from anyone other than an opportunity. Poor people have choices and when you provide for those poor people without conditions it is a hand out not a hand up. People are born into poor families because of choices their family members made and you will never be successful with the attitude that you have. Your posts are textbook liberalism of jealousy, class envy and your solution is to take more from those who do produce. All handouts do is create dependence and career politicians with power
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No one said anything about handouts, and you didn't respond to my questions. Thanks for playing.
 
mrjurrs said:
No one said anything about handouts, and you didn't respond to my questions. Thanks for playing.
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what do you think welfare is if not a handout from the taxpayers? You totally ignored my response because you didn't like the answer, I was poor and made a better choice than you apparently did and I understand the value of keeping more of what I earn rather than giving to a career politicians to spend on creating dependence. you think welfare helps, but only incentive provides the change in ones attitude
 
Conservative said:
what do you think welfare is if not a handout from the taxpayers? You totally ignored my response because you didn't like the answer, I was poor and made a better choice than you apparently did and I understand the value of keeping more of what I earn rather than giving to a career politicians to spend on creating dependence. you think welfare helps, but only incentive provides the change in ones attitude
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Means tested welfare is there to help out. We should have equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States to solve for simple poverty and give people a choice. Many would choose the simplicity of unemployment compensation over more costly means tested welfare.

We could be lowering our tax burden and improving the efficiency of our economy in the process.
 
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