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Thread: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It really doesn't matter if he started a business because he actually RAN a business and actually had to make a PAYROLL and create budgets. Based upon the world we live in today I have no problem whatsoever with his arrogance on the public stage as it is about time that someone put America first and we are indeed winning as the economic results show. The U.S. economy will exceed 3% GDP growth for fiscal and calendar year 2018 for the first time since 2005 and that was done without massive govt. spending like no 842 billion Obama stimulus that was included in his GDP numbers.

    2018 saw manufacturing generate the best year since 1997, retailers set records in December, Charitable contributions set records in December, States and local governments have set records in sales and property taxes, the unemployment in this country is at historic lows with 312,000 new jobs created in December. All economic numbers are looking up yet the left doesn't want to celebrate nor do you
    That's you, but not everyone shares your view. I understand that there's no perfect world where you have leaders who are awesome human beings; we're all flawed. However Trump relishes in the confrontational style that he's known for, and regardless of results, it won't sit well with people because for some how you make your success is as important as the achievement. As for the economy, it doesn't rely solely on what a president does, but there's now denying the prospect of what Trump was campaigning on set the tone for how businesses were going to respond, and that much has been made pretty clear. What his policies will mean over the long haul (tax cuts, deregulation etc) remains to be seen.

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickyjo View Post
    In a way I agree. I was schooled in community development and organizing that suggested nothing should be given away, that the role of an organizer was to suggest that people take charge of their lives. I remember when food stamps required the recipient to put up money to receive them, and that was to me a better formula than now. But I have to disagree with the notion of “individual wealth creation.” Obama got skewered when he said of some business or businessman, that he didn’t “create that,” but he was right. We all suck at a different teat of the big sow that is government, whether it is taking advantage of the protection of incorporation or getting a tax break for having kids, or using the interstate to deliver goods. I was somewhat shocked when I learned that I could deduct mortgage interest (already a subsidy renters don’t have) on a *second* home. How does it make any sense for me to get that benefit? For the record, I took the deduction.

    Finally, capitalism is wonderful at producing wealth, less so at distributing it. And prior to 20th century reforms, it was pretty brutal at suppressing distributive efforts like labor unions as well as ignoring their history. So when people tried to take charge of their lives, we had the Ludlow killings in Colorado, the kidnapping of 1200 miners in Arizona, or the Haymarket demonstrations in Chicago, incidents few Americans are aware of.

    Excuse my rant.
    Interesting rant, I grew up in a very small town, my dad dropped out of school after the 6th grade to work in the CCC camps in Idaho because of family needs. He made 50 cents a day and sent 25 cents home. He joined the Navy and served at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. I am fortunate to be here but not once did he ever rely on anyone else to give him anything and taught me not only to work hard but family values. He left the Navy, started his own business and put my sister and me through college teaching me personal responsibility and that you celebrate success from the fruits of your labor.

    Obama was an incompetent community agitator who never understood the private sector. His statement meant something different than yours. This country was built on neighbor helping neighbor but neighbor was never intended to be a massive central govt. Instead it was designed to be that neighbor next door or down the street. Them keeping more of what they earn is what made this country great because they helped others with that. Those in need will always get help when the neighbors have spendable income which is evident today with record charitable contributions. Obama created and preyed on victims and the massive central government has created dependence and an entitlement mentality.

    Sorry for the rant but I grew up differently than apparently you did. I don't begrudge anyone for what they make or what they have but rather celebrate it and try to emulate it. I learned incentive works, I learned not to rely on anyone else for my personal responsibility issues. I raised two incredible kids, lost my wife to cancer 6 years ago tomorrow, Sunday, and still am thankful for living in the greatest country on the face of the earth.

    The entitlement mentality promoted by the left is destroying this country and we cannot stand on the debt being created. Liberalism is about thinking with your heart and spending in the name of compassion. Creating dependence isn't compassion. The radical left is destroying incentive, promoting class envy and jealousy, and never solving a social problem. Throwing money at the problem never works, changing attitudes and work ethic does

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Interesting rant, I grew up in a very small town, my dad dropped out of school after the 6th grade to work in the CCC camps in Idaho because of family needs. He made 50 cents a day and sent 25 cents home. He joined the Navy and served at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. I am fortunate to be here but not once did he ever rely on anyone else to give him anything and taught me not only to work hard but family values. He left the Navy, started his own business and put my sister and me through college teaching me personal responsibility and that you celebrate success from the fruits of your labor.

    Obama was an incompetent community agitator who never understood the private sector. His statement meant something different than yours. This country was built on neighbor helping neighbor but neighbor was never intended to be a massive central govt. Instead it was designed to be that neighbor next door or down the street. Them keeping more of what they earn is what made this country great because they helped others with that. Those in need will always get help when the neighbors have spendable income which is evident today with record charitable contributions. Obama created and preyed on victims and the massive central government has created dependence and an entitlement mentality.

    Sorry for the rant but I grew up differently than apparently you did. I don't begrudge anyone for what they make or what they have but rather celebrate it and try to emulate it. I learned incentive works, I learned not to rely on anyone else for my personal responsibility issues. I raised two incredible kids, lost my wife to cancer 6 years ago tomorrow, Sunday, and still am thankful for living in the greatest country on the face of the earth.

    The entitlement mentality promoted by the left is destroying this country and we cannot stand on the debt being created. Liberalism is about thinking with your heart and spending in the name of compassion. Creating dependence isn't compassion. The radical left is destroying incentive, promoting class envy and jealousy, and never solving a social problem. Throwing money at the problem never works, changing attitudes and work ethic does
    I still don't undrstand. The way I see it the world was gripped by depression and war, and some countries turned to fascism, Stalin's paranoia gripped another, and in the US we chose FDR, whose programs apparently helped both our parents. The government was massive when Obama showed up, it's massive-ness due to SS, Medicare/Medicaid and the military, the great jobs program that got us out of the depression. Obama has two legacies: he reduced the deficit he was handed yearly except for one year while (I believe) putting the Iraq war costs back on the books, and he pushed the ACA, which (you can quote me on this) conservatives will stop calling Obamacare in a few years, as he had us catching up with Canada and Europe. Even Mexico has some form of national health care. His (now abrogated by Trump) agreement with Iran still holds and I assume anyone who succeeds Trump will bring us back in the direction of the Paris climate accords. I don't see how he was hostile to free market much more than his predecessors going back to FDR.

    There is no doubt that money is wasted in government, but look at the pie chart of government spending, easily available on line, and where would you cut? That's the conservative conundrum. Whether you view it as good or bad, we like what the government has done domestically these past few generations.

    Conservatives are useful, essential even, as brakes to keep us liberals from doing really dumb things. But the arc of history of the last 100 years has been towards filing the rough edges off of capitalism. Everything that makes the workplace a more just and safe place came from liberals from both parties, from unemployment insurance to civil rights laws prohibiting discrimination.

    So sorry to hear about your wife. At a women event celebrating my wife's birthday, seven of the eleven gals there were dealing with or had dealt with cancer. Keep her memory close.

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickyjo View Post
    I still don't undrstand. The way I see it the world was gripped by depression and war, and some countries turned to fascism, Stalin's paranoia gripped another, and in the US we chose FDR, whose programs apparently helped both our parents. The government was massive when Obama showed up, it's massive-ness due to SS, Medicare/Medicaid and the military, the great jobs program that got us out of the depression. Obama has two legacies: he reduced the deficit he was handed yearly except for one year while (I believe) putting the Iraq war costs back on the books, and he pushed the ACA, which (you can quote me on this) conservatives will stop calling Obamacare in a few years, as he had us catching up with Canada and Europe. Even Mexico has some form of national health care. His (now abrogated by Trump) agreement with Iran still holds and I assume anyone who succeeds Trump will bring us back in the direction of the Paris climate accords. I don't see how he was hostile to free market much more than his predecessors going back to FDR.

    There is no doubt that money is wasted in government, but look at the pie chart of government spending, easily available on line, and where would you cut? That's the conservative conundrum. Whether you view it as good or bad, we like what the government has done domestically these past few generations.

    Conservatives are useful, essential even, as brakes to keep us liberals from doing really dumb things. But the arc of history of the last 100 years has been towards filing the rough edges off of capitalism. Everything that makes the workplace a more just and safe place came from liberals from both parties, from unemployment insurance to civil rights laws prohibiting discrimination.

    So sorry to hear about your wife. At a women event celebrating my wife's birthday, seven of the eleven gals there were dealing with or had dealt with cancer. Keep her memory close.
    What is it about so many people who don't understand that reducing the deficit and adding 9.3 trillion to the debt isn't something to celebrate especially when Obama didn't do anything to even reduce the deficit, Congress did it with sequester. Obama's deficits were over a trillion dollars in 09-10-11-12 with a Democratic Congress in 09-10, a Republican House in 11-12 then a Republican Congress.

    there is also a lot of misunderstanding about off budget items thus supplemental spending bills. ALL SPENDING IS INCLUDED IN the DEFICITS, ALL!! Just because an idem is off budget doesn't put it off the financial statement and is included in the 4.9 trillion Bush added to the debt

    The radical left has done a number on a lot of people, indoctrinated them by appealing to their hearts. It is a shame that so many are poorly educated in civics, economics, and even U.S. History

    Regarding ACA, Again I gave you my history and not once have I ever expected you or someone else to pay for my healthcare. This is federal over reach as healthcare is a personal responsibility issue best handled at the state and local level. Amazing how great ACA is when over 27 million people are still uninsured and many of those enrolled were eligible for Medicaid but hadn't signed up until faced with a penalty. A lot of misinformation being thrown out there by the left as they continue to buy votes by getting people to think with their hearts. Spending in the name of compassion that doesn't generate compassionate results is a waste of money and destroys incentive.

    Thanks for your comments regarding my wife, we were married over 40 years and today is the anniversary of her death. I miss her dearly but do know exactly where she is.

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/soc...y-lurches-left

    You historically challenged liberals must be so proud. Socialism in America, that Liberal utopia

    Lets stop with the liberal speak of deficit spending. Between this and massive focus on expansion of investigations looks like a get nothing done Congress thanks to a Republican Senate
    I'd say it's as much a referendum on trump as it is support for single payer type ideas and the rest of the progressive liberal bag of tricks. I dont expect the massive program ideas to get off the ground. Single payer has the best chance. What I like about the left is that they are concerned about our environment and our health and the link between the two and would address it with necessary regulations. They want to tax the highest earners more. They are concerned about voting rights and other civil rights. They understand Americas relationship with immigrants and how important it is to remain open to the world so the brightest keep coming here. I'm sure theres more. The more radical ideas I dont support but I'm not opposed to exploring.

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by grainbelt View Post
    I'd say it's as much a referendum on trump as it is support for single payer type ideas and the rest of the progressive liberal bag of tricks. I dont expect the massive program ideas to get off the ground. Single payer has the best chance. What I like about the left is that they are concerned about our environment and our health and the link between the two and would address it with necessary regulations. They want to tax the highest earners more. They are concerned about voting rights and other civil rights. They understand Americas relationship with immigrants and how important it is to remain open to the world so the brightest keep coming here. I'm sure theres more. The more radical ideas I dont support but I'm not opposed to exploring.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    America has always been open to LEGAL immigration, what part of breaking the law don't you understand?

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    America has always been open to LEGAL immigration, what part of breaking the law don't you understand?
    I have no problem understanding. Asylum seekers are lawful.

    Trump and the GOP arent open to legal immigration, though. They are trying to reform it to further limit who can come and the quotas. They hurt our image and make travel here difficult for students, and science and tech leaders. I suspect they fear for their built in senate majority and their white christian majority. Otherwise, what's the purpose for demonizing and minimizing even legal entry?

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by grainbelt View Post
    I have no problem understanding. Asylum seekers are lawful.

    Trump and the GOP arent open to legal immigration, though. They are trying to reform it to further limit who can come and the quotas. They hurt our image and make travel here difficult for students, and science and tech leaders. I suspect they fear for their built in senate majority and their white christian majority. Otherwise, what's the purpose for demonizing and minimizing even legal entry?

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    There is a procedure for seeking asylum, this isn't it

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Pict...w=1124&bih=513

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by marke View Post
    The Bolsheviks have taken over the House and are on target to assassinate the sitting US President.
    " I destroy my enemies when I make them my friends. " - Abraham Lincoln -

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    Re: Socialism Rising: Dems take House pushing massive government expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/soc...y-lurches-left

    You historically challenged liberals must be so proud. Socialism in America, that Liberal utopia

    Lets stop with the liberal speak of deficit spending. Between this and massive focus on expansion of investigations looks like a get nothing done Congress thanks to a Republican Senate
    It was bound to happen. Conservatives has been claiming that popular programs like Social Security, Medicare and the ACA are 'socialism' for years. Americans then conclude that, if those are socialism, socialism isn't so bad.

    "Socialism" is no longer the scare word that the right hoped.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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