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Thread: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

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    Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Most Americans do not see a need for a border wall. There is no evidence it will be effective. There is little justification for the building and maintenance of such a structure. The fencing and security that currently exist have enjoyed strong bipartisan support. But Trump supporters seem dead set on forcing the other two thirds of Americans to believe the idea that this wall is essential. That there is a crisis of some sort without it. That we need 10,000 military troops there rather than 2,000 troops in Syria because the threat is so dire.

    You aren't selling the wall to the rest of America. You are imposing it on us. You go down this road, then if you manage to get it built I could see it being torn down by your fellow Americans the next time the pendulum swings.

    Here is your chance. Produce a coherent, rational, and evidence-based argument for this wall. Not the emotional tripe, but something actually based in fact. Convert some people to your cause since you seem to believe the wall is a worthy project.
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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Why is he shoving this down out throats? It's because it's the only thing he has left. He's desperate. It makes him feel relevant to his base no matter how foolish he looks to the rest of us.

    And don't forget it's a diversion from his own problems with the special counsel's investigation.
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 12-25-18 at 11:17 PM.
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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Most Americans do not see a need for a border wall. There is no evidence it will be effective. There is little justification for the building and maintenance of such a structure. The fencing and security that currently exist have enjoyed strong bipartisan support. But Trump supporters seem dead set on forcing the other two thirds of Americans to believe the idea that this wall is essential. That there is a crisis of some sort without it. That we need 10,000 military troops there rather than 2,000 troops in Syria because the threat is so dire.

    You aren't selling the wall to the rest of America. You are imposing it on us. You go down this road, then if you manage to get it built I could see it being torn down by your fellow Americans the next time the pendulum swings.

    Here is your chance. Produce a coherent, rational, and evidence-based argument for this wall. Not the emotional tripe, but something actually based in fact. Convert some people to your cause since you seem to believe the wall is a worthy project.
    I'm on record as preferring strong immigration laws fully enforced without exception, defining birthright citizenship as pertaining only to babies born of legal residents, immediate deportation without legal recourse for anyone entering illegally, and a permanent ban on amnesties. Doing this would preclude any need for a wall.

    However, whenever I see an argument against the wall that starts with "There is no evidence it will be effective" I have to laugh at this fallacious point.

    The fact is we are literally surrounded by walls in our everyday lives, and they prove their effectiveness by preventing and/or channeling access to whatever space is being walled in.

    Of course no wall is going to be 100% effective as a stand alone defense. If there is something inside worth it to someone breaking in for, then the wall/barrier will also need dedicated defenses.

    In normal life it would be security guards, police, soldiers, automated systems, or in the case of a homeowner that person themselves.

    So arguing that no wall is 100% effective is disingenuous. Walls work as they are designed to, and if well defended then they work even better.

    As for why one would want a wall along the borderline? For the same reasons any wall has been built, to prevent anyone not allowed from entering the premises without permission.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 12-25-18 at 11:30 PM.
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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?
    ...The folks who are doing so are having "Mae West" moments.

    Too much of a good thing can be wonderful!
    -- Mae West










    For an entertaining diversion:
    Those who jettison the epistemological standards of science are no longer in a position to use their intellectual product to make any claims about what is true of the world or to dispute the others’ claims about what is true. - Tooby & Cosmides
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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Most Americans do not see a need for a border wall. There is no evidence it will be effective. There is little justification for the building and maintenance of such a structure. The fencing and security that currently exist have enjoyed strong bipartisan support. But Trump supporters seem dead set on forcing the other two thirds of Americans to believe the idea that this wall is essential. That there is a crisis of some sort without it. That we need 10,000 military troops there rather than 2,000 troops in Syria because the threat is so dire.

    You aren't selling the wall to the rest of America. You are imposing it on us. You go down this road, then if you manage to get it built I could see it being torn down by your fellow Americans the next time the pendulum swings.

    Here is your chance. Produce a coherent, rational, and evidence-based argument for this wall. Not the emotional tripe, but something actually based in fact. Convert some people to your cause since you seem to believe the wall is a worthy project.
    Just because you say stupid stuff, doesn't make it true.

    There is a lot of evidence that border walls are VERY effective.

    National security is all the justification we need for it.

    Actually, the fencing that currently exists isn't what Congress authorized a couple decades ago. It's a snow job that Congress foisted upon the American people. It was never meant to be effective.

    But hey...you should be used to the government shoving stuff down your throat. What's the big deal?
    TANSTAAFL

    Liberal turned conservative David Mamet famously said: In order to continue advancing their illogical arguments modern liberals have to pretend not to know things…

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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    I'm against the wall as I think there would be more effective ways. But to say that a wall would be ineffective is naive at best. Israel has a wall that is quite effective. Lots of properties all across the US have walls and fences around their properties. Hell, even the richest among us use walls to keep people off their property. And areas where walls have been built have shown a sharp decline in illegal immigration. Will it stop all illegal immigration? Of course not. And no one is saying that it will. But it would help prevent the majority of illegals that enter through the southern border from entering. Once that is done then we can work on other ways of preventing illegal immigration. I'd prefer to do that first, but its not happening that way. In the end the goal is to secure our country. That is the Job of our Federal Government. It's time that they did that instead of listening to bleeding hearts that often use emotional arguments rather than logic.
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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm against the wall as I think there would be more effective ways. But to say that a wall would be ineffective is naive at best. Israel has a wall that is quite effective. Lots of properties all across the US have walls and fences around their properties. Hell, even the richest among us use walls to keep people off their property. And areas where walls have been built have shown a sharp decline in illegal immigration. Will it stop all illegal immigration? Of course not. And no one is saying that it will. But it would help prevent the majority of illegals that enter through the southern border from entering. Once that is done then we can work on other ways of preventing illegal immigration. I'd prefer to do that first, but its not happening that way. In the end the goal is to secure our country. That is the Job of our Federal Government. It's time that they did that instead of listening to bleeding hearts that often use emotional arguments rather than logic.
    Israel's wall is 440 miles. The U.S. Mexican border is 2500 miles, and the logistics, not to mention the cost are a nightmare. You can't compare the two.

    Why don't we just fine the piss out of employers and jail them if they hire illegals? We could even make money from it! You know the KISS principal!
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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Q: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    A: Trump was elected in part on the back of this promise, he carries with him a Mandate.
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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    A border wall can be effective. A border wall can cause more problems.

    How it is approached matters. If it is framed in xenophobic terms, in a way which makes people who are here legally feel like second class citizens, it could breed hopelessness and feed recruits to gangs who are already here. That is one example of how a bad approach can cause the kind of problem which the wall's promoters claim they want to prevent.

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    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Q: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    A: Trump was elected in part on the back of this promise, he carries with him a Mandate.


    His mandate is to make Mexico pay for the wall.

    He promised taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for it. Now he is saying government will stay shut down until taxpayers pay for what he said we wouldn't have to pay for.

    He has no mandate to blackmail us into doing what he promised we wouldn't have to do.

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