Page 2 of 46 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 456

Thread: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

  1. #11
    Professor
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Last Seen
    01-27-19 @ 11:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,901

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I'm on record as preferring strong immigration laws fully enforced without exception, defining birthright citizenship as pertaining only to babies born of legal residents, immediate deportation without legal recourse for anyone entering illegally, and a permanent ban on amnesties. Doing this would preclude any need for a wall.

    However, whenever I see an argument against the wall that starts with "There is no evidence it will be effective" I have to laugh at this fallacious point.

    The fact is we are literally surrounded by walls in our everyday lives, and they prove their effectiveness by preventing and/or channeling access to whatever space is being walled in.

    Of course no wall is going to be 100% effective as a stand alone defense. If there is something inside worth it to someone breaking in for, then the wall/barrier will also need dedicated defenses.

    In normal life it would be security guards, police, soldiers, automated systems, or in the case of a homeowner that person themselves.

    So arguing that no wall is 100% effective is disingenuous. Walls work as they are designed to, and if well defended then they work even better.

    As for why one would want a wall along the borderline? For the same reasons any wall has been built, to prevent anyone not allowed from entering the premises without permission.
    Tijuana has a store with a pic showing a 32' ladder and one piece too. I think they will sell out.
    Never saw a country more in love with money. Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #12
    Conservatarian Guru
    Bullseye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    10,820

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Most Americans do not see a need for a border wall. There is no evidence it will be effective.
    Oh? What about the walls in Israel? They seem to work pretty good. You live surrounded by walls - anyone breaking in to your place?


    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought
    There is little justification for the building and maintenance of such a structure. The fencing and security that currently exist have enjoyed strong bipartisan support. But Trump supporters seem dead set on forcing the other two thirds of Americans to believe the idea that this wall is essential. That there is a crisis of some sort without it. That we need 10,000 military troops there rather than 2,000 troops in Syria because the threat is so dire.

    You aren't selling the wall to the rest of America. You are imposing it on us. You go down this road, then if you manage to get it built I could see it being torn down by your fellow Americans the next time the pendulum swings.

    Here is your chance. Produce a coherent, rational, and evidence-based argument for this wall. Not the emotional tripe, but something actually based in fact. Convert some people to your cause since you seem to believe the wall is a worthy project.
    Sorry, I seriously doubt a coherent, rational, evidence based argument would make any difference to you because it's TRUMP proposing it. You don't care about logic or evidence or anything other than hate for Trump. I've challenged anti-wallers to provide an alternative to control illegal entry. So far: ::crickets:: We have fences or walls around military installations, we have walls around prisons, we have walls around rich liberal communities and seem to think THEY work, but a wall preventing illegal entry to our country and unnecessary deaths to children who have no choice and you guy get all gooey.

  3. #13
    Buttermilk Man
    Hawkeye10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Olympia Wa
    Last Seen
    05-02-19 @ 09:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    42,113

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    A border wall can be effective. A border wall can cause more problems.

    How it is approached matters. If it is framed in xenophobic terms, in a way which makes people who are here legally feel like second class citizens, it could breed hopelessness and feed recruits to gangs who are already here. That is one example of how a bad approach can cause the kind of problem which the wall's promoters claim they want to prevent.
    People who we invited should not consider themselves to be or be like people we did not invite. If they do do that they should consider seeing a therapist.
    Currently on Strike......PM's Only....And only for the far too few who manage civility.

  4. #14
    Buttermilk Man
    Hawkeye10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Olympia Wa
    Last Seen
    05-02-19 @ 09:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    42,113

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    His mandate is to make Mexico pay for the wall.

    He promised taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for it. Now he is saying government will stay shut down until taxpayers pay for what he said we wouldn't have to pay for.

    He has no mandate to blackmail us into doing what he promised we wouldn't have to do.
    You are over thinking this.
    Currently on Strike......PM's Only....And only for the far too few who manage civility.

  5. #15
    Professor
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Last Seen
    01-27-19 @ 11:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,901

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Israel's wall is 440 miles. The U.S. Mexican border is 2500 miles, and the logistics, not to mention the cost are a nightmare. You can't compare the two.

    Why don't we just fine the piss out of employers and jail them if they hire illegals? We could even make money from it! You know the KISS principal!
    Two good points and Israel had no eminent domain problems, they put it just where...they wanted it.

    You have to know this is all a profit center, hiring illegals and the wall.

    The capitalists run our govt. and will not stand for enforcing any laws...against them.
    Never saw a country more in love with money. Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #16
    Sage
    Mycroft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,608

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
    Tijuana has a store with a pic showing a 32' ladder and one piece too. I think they will sell out.
    All I can say is pregnant illegal aliens should stay away from 3 story ladders.
    TANSTAAFL

    Liberal turned conservative David Mamet famously said: In order to continue advancing their illogical arguments modern liberals have to pretend not to know things…

  7. #17
    Sage
    Amelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    6,292

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    You are over thinking this.
    No overthinking.

    Simple logic to easily dispatch your claim that what he is doing is in keeping with a promise which he had a mandate to fulfill.



    Logic is easy for some of us.

  8. #18
    You Rang?

    lurchadams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Seattle Area
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    11,748

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Most Americans do not see a need for a border wall. There is no evidence it will be effective. There is little justification for the building and maintenance of such a structure. The fencing and security that currently exist have enjoyed strong bipartisan support. But Trump supporters seem dead set on forcing the other two thirds of Americans to believe the idea that this wall is essential. That there is a crisis of some sort without it. That we need 10,000 military troops there rather than 2,000 troops in Syria because the threat is so dire.

    You aren't selling the wall to the rest of America. You are imposing it on us. You go down this road, then if you manage to get it built I could see it being torn down by your fellow Americans the next time the pendulum swings.

    Here is your chance. Produce a coherent, rational, and evidence-based argument for this wall. Not the emotional tripe, but something actually based in fact. Convert some people to your cause since you seem to believe the wall is a worthy project.
    It panders to his isolationist base. Some know that it really won't prevent the inflow of illegals but they like the fact that it's a giant "middle finger" to brown people.
    "The republicans in congress of the last 3 years resemble the American Communist party of the late 1930's" - George Will, Conservative Columnist

  9. #19
    Buttermilk Man
    Hawkeye10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Olympia Wa
    Last Seen
    05-02-19 @ 09:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    42,113

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    No overthinking.

    Simple logic to easily dispatch your claim that what he is doing is in keeping with a promise which he had a mandate to fulfill.



    Logic is easy for some of us.
    Keeping his word on a promise that people clearly cared about and thus formed part of the foundation for why we voted for him, which created a mandate.

    For instance Obama in 08 ran all over the country claiming that Washington needs reforming and that he was just the guy to lead the charge, thus we voted for him, handing him a mandate.






    Then the Mother****er sat on his hands for 8 years.





    BTW do you notice a trend here....first we sent Obama, then we sent Trump.

    Who might be next I wonder.
    Currently on Strike......PM's Only....And only for the far too few who manage civility.

  10. #20
    Preserve Protect Defend
    Beaudreaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    veni, vidi, volo - now back in NC
    Last Seen
    04-09-19 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    18,233

    Re: Why are you shoving this wall down our throats?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Most Americans do not see a need for a border wall. There is no evidence it will be effective. There is little justification for the building and maintenance of such a structure. The fencing and security that currently exist have enjoyed strong bipartisan support. But Trump supporters seem dead set on forcing the other two thirds of Americans to believe the idea that this wall is essential. That there is a crisis of some sort without it. That we need 10,000 military troops there rather than 2,000 troops in Syria because the threat is so dire.

    You aren't selling the wall to the rest of America. You are imposing it on us. You go down this road, then if you manage to get it built I could see it being torn down by your fellow Americans the next time the pendulum swings.

    Here is your chance. Produce a coherent, rational, and evidence-based argument for this wall. Not the emotional tripe, but something actually based in fact. Convert some people to your cause since you seem to believe the wall is a worthy project.
    The answer to that question is simple: As Obama said, elections have consequences, and Trump was elected on (among other things) building the wall.

    I didn't vote for him, and would love to see Trump out of office as quickly as possible... however, on the issue of a border barrier (wall, fence, etc.), I support its completion and augmenting it with tech and human resources. The Democrats will find out that they are on the wrong side of history on this one.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

Page 2 of 46 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •