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How Strong Does the Evidence Against Kavanaugh Need to Be?

So, if a Senator indicates a preconceived position regarding whether or not someone is lying/telling the truth or guilty/innocent - that makes a hearing unfair to that individual?
Absolutely yes, when a Senator like Orrin Hatch has actually STATED that he does NOT believe her, then NO, she cannot get a fair hearing.

Interesting.

So, if, for example, I could show you where Democrat Senators had already come out and said that they believed Ford - that Kavanaugh was a predator and attempted rapist - then you would naturally agree this meant Kavanaugh couldn't get a fair hearing?

Or are you a hypocrite, pretending to a standard when really it's all about tribalism?
 
Interesting.

So, if, for example, I could show you where Democrat Senators had already come out and said that they believed Ford - that Kavanaugh was a predator and attempted rapist - then you would naturally agree this meant Kavanaugh couldn't get a fair hearing?

Or are you a hypocrite, pretending to a standard when really it's all about tribalism?

Show me one on that Committee, one that will vote on that confirmation. Do that. The fact that it was Orrin Hatch that made that statement is pertinent to the outcome since he's on the Senate Confirmation Committee.

Put up, or shut up. It's your time to bring the proof now.
 
So...I have a question. Are Supreme Court justices above the law, or something? Do they have diplomatic immunity?

By all means, have the FBI investigate. In the meantime, give the dude the job. In 1-2 years, when the investigation concludes, either they will have enough evidence one way or the other...and he either keeps his job, or he doesnt? Seems pretty simple.
 
So...I have a question. Are Supreme Court justices above the law, or something? Do they have diplomatic immunity?

By all means, have the FBI investigate. In the meantime, give the dude the job. In 1-2 years, when the investigation concludes, either they will have enough evidence one way or the other...and he either keeps his job, or he doesnt? Seems pretty simple.

Although justices are not above the law, they have exempted themselves from the code of conduct that applies to all other federal judges. When lower-court judges face a motion to step aside owing to a possible conflict of interest, other judges settle the question. Justices on the Supreme Court, however, get to decide questions about their own impartiality by themselves, sometimes arriving at dubious conclusions. I have heard a few Senators suggest that if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed that he should recuse himself in any decisions regarding women's rights. Obviously that would never happen because it's not a requirement that they do.

If you recall, in 2004, Judge Antonin Scalia declined to recuse himself from a case involving Vice President Dick Cheney and the energy industry, shortly after Cheney and Scalia had gone on a duck hunting trip together to a private camp owned by an oil industry executive. (Scalia voted in favor of Cheney.) Right or wrong, the fact that Scalia made the decision himself did nothing to bolster public confidence in the court’s impartiality.

The Supreme Court has a tendency toward opacity, shunning calls for more openness about its workings, including a refusal to allow cameras into its courthouse. The public deserves a court that is more transparent and accountable.
 
Although justices are not above the law, they have exempted themselves from the code of conduct that applies to all other federal judges. When lower-court judges face a motion to step aside owing to a possible conflict of interest, other judges settle the question. Justices on the Supreme Court, however, get to decide questions about their own impartiality by themselves, sometimes arriving at dubious conclusions. I have heard a few Senators suggest that if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed that he should recuse himself in any decisions regarding women's rights. Obviously that would never happen because it's not a requirement that they do.

If you recall, in 2004, Judge Antonin Scalia declined to recuse himself from a case involving Vice President Dick Cheney and the energy industry, shortly after Cheney and Scalia had gone on a duck hunting trip together to a private camp owned by an oil industry executive. (Scalia voted in favor of Cheney.) Right or wrong, the fact that Scalia made the decision himself did nothing to bolster public confidence in the court’s impartiality.

The Supreme Court has a tendency toward opacity, shunning calls for more openness about its workings, including a refusal to allow cameras into its courthouse. The public deserves a court that is more transparent and accountable.

So...you're trying to tell me that if, once sworn in, the FBI finds conclusive evidence supporting Fords accusation, nothing will happen to him?


I'm not buying it....
 
Ya...but that's not what I'm really talking about. The dismissal is so complete that she is disbelieved out of hand, prior to any opportunity for evidence to be reviewed by qualified investigators, before anyone could possibly know if she was lying or not. That's the problem.

I agree with you that evidence needs to be provided, I'm all over this forum saying so in various different examples. But that's completely different than the hate and judgement and ridicule that has been thrown around before anyone could possibly know if she was telling the truth or not. How is that any different than the character assassination of possibly wrongly accused men? Until someone comes forward with the results of an investigation, everyone should talk as if they don't have the first clue as to what actually happened, because they don't. It's telling when time and time again the same folks are the ones that automatically assume the accuser is full of ****...which is no better than when a different group of the same folks automatically assume the man did it. :shrug:

Don't get me wrong, I think those that act as if she is definitely lying are no different than those who automatically assume she isn't. The problem is given the length of time since the event the odds of finding any evidence that can prove one way or the other is almost zero. The eventual outcome is going to be determined purely based off of emotion and political bias rather than fact and considering what is at play this is simply a terrible situation. I know many are largely going to be skeptical of the claim considering the way Democrats are exploiting this situation for political gain, but that is largely irrelevant to the case of whether the claim is true or not. Oddly enough, had she come forward at the time and was able to prove it, this would have no bearing on his confirmation as he was a minor and it would be off his record by now.
 
I am betting this includes some interesting assumptions in it's baseline assumptions.

Those statistics came from RAINN, the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network. Why don't you call them and tell them you don't believe their statistics? :roll:
 
Those statistics came from RAINN, the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network. Why don't you call them and tell them you don't believe their statistics? :roll:
Got a source link?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
 
So...you're trying to tell me that if, once sworn in, the FBI finds conclusive evidence supporting Fords accusation, nothing will happen to him?


I'm not buying it....

That's what I'm telling you. Remember, it is the Supreme Court that MAKES our laws.
 
Absolutely yes, when a Senator like Orrin Hatch has actually STATED that he does NOT believe her, then NO, she cannot get a fair hearing.

A number of Senators have actually stated they believe Him. So does that mean Kavanaugh cannot get a fair hearing?
 
I don't know why you quoted me. I was responding to someone who blamed rape VICTIMS who don't come forward for future rapes.

Should have made my post more clear. Basically I agree that at times the "victim" should be called out.
 
I guess the source link from the bottom of the graphic is not enough? :roll:

https://www.rainn.org/
It's to the organization, not the study. Do you really care for me to go through and point out things like assumed rates of reporting, etc?

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
 
It's completely inconsequential what 'many are now asserting'. It doesn't matter what anyone asserts, what matters is that both are given a fair hearing that gives both of them equal time to present their case. As far as subpoenaing Mark Judge, this does hot have to be a trial for the Senate to subpoena him. The Senate hands out subpoenas all the time. And as far as the FBI goes, both Orrin Hatch and Chuck Grassley moved to involve the FBI immediately in the Clarence Thomas hearings so it's not unprecedented since they set the precedent themselves.

Exactly, yet only one of them is making demands. Ford is playing the delay game (with 36 years of practice and full demorat support?) and Grassley is being played as he sets 'deadlines' which, as soon as they pass with no response, get replaced with later 'deadlines' which, obviously, will be ignored as well.
 
View attachment 67240887


This is one reason why rape is so under-reported.

The other 690 need to be reported

And women need to be their own advocates telling district attorneys they don’t care about their ****ing win/loss records

They want to prosecute no matter what...and use every thing at their disposal to make that happen

The press, elected officials, etc

When they give up, or don’t press the matter...whose fault is that....
 
You've already said you don't care of Kavanaugh lied under oath, and is therefore smearing this woman to get his precious seat. It's all you need to say - now the only question is what excuse you'll settle on when he comes up for a vote. "Everyone lies," right?

I said what he has done before he was a judge shouldn't matter. his suitability as a justice is best evaluated on his records as a judge. The "lying" nonsense is just Dem gotcha bs. you also oppose him because you want socialist/leftwing/living constitution statists on the court and the thought of a judge who actually follows the obvious intent of the second amendment or the commerce clause terrifies people like you
 
I said what he has done before he was a judge shouldn't matter.

If he did what Ford is accusing him of and is categorically denying it as he has, then he is a liar today and a predator then, and yes, both matter.
 
If he did what Ford is accusing him of and is categorically denying it as he has, then he is a liar today and a predator then, and yes, both matter.

He should say he has absolutely no recollection of the event she claims. That can be absolutely true even if the act occurred. its why I made a post yesterday (IIRC) noting that is what experienced cops do. and there is plenty of factual foundation to support that
 
He should say he has absolutely no recollection of the event she claims. That can be absolutely true even if the act occurred. its why I made a post yesterday (IIRC) noting that is what experienced cops do. and there is plenty of factual foundation to support that

Well, he's gone a step beyond that, saying not only did it definitely not happen, but that he did not attend parties like the one she describes. That's pretty categorical, and it sets up a falsifiable claim - his willingness to do that is a big reason why he currently enjoys a lot more credibility than she does in this he-said/she-said game.

HOWEVER, it also sets him up, if he is lying, to be shown as such. If he is lying now about what he did then, then yes, that is disqualifying.
 
I said what he has done before he was a judge shouldn't matter. his suitability as a justice is best evaluated on his records as a judge. The "lying" nonsense is just Dem gotcha bs. you also oppose him because you want socialist/leftwing/living constitution statists on the court and the thought of a judge who actually follows the obvious intent of the second amendment or the commerce clause terrifies people like you

That (bolded above) assertion is simply ridiculous. Should it not matter what child sex crimes a person may have committed before they were hired as a teacher? What matters is what criminal allegations can be proven - not simply when they may have happened.
 
That (bolded above) assertion is simply ridiculous. Should it not matter what child sex crimes a person may have committed before they were hired as a teacher? What matters is what criminal allegations can be proven - not simply when they may have happened.

how many times should the FBI admit it didn't do a proper job. SIX BACKGROUND CHECKS. there should be some finality
 
A number of Senators have actually stated they believe Him. So does that mean Kavanaugh cannot get a fair hearing?

Every one of the 11 Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee didn't supports Kavanaugh in any way they could. But the only one that I'm aware of so far that has publicly stated he simply does not believe Christine Blasey Ford is Senator Orrin Hatch. IMO it's her that will not get a fair hearing.
 
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