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If our Constitution made liberalism, in effect, illegal what should we do with them?.

Cordelier said:
Let us all hail and praise those great bastions of conservatism who led us through those two world wars - Presidents Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt.
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our subject is not about who was president during wars???
 
James972 said:
our subject is not about who was president during wars???
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You're the one who cited the wars... I'm just paying homage to the enlightened leadership of those great conservative leaders of yesteryear.

But I get your gist... a single party state where everyone must tow the ideological line is what the constitution is all about. After all, that's why your grandfather died fighting Communism during World War II, was it not?
 
Wow, read through the thread up until this point, there's a couple minutes of my life I won't get back. Good Grief.......
 
It's almost cute that people still believe that the US is a democratic republic governed by a political party. The US is governed by special interest groups, not a party. Americans have little influence over the policies our government adopts. It's true that we're free to enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association, but if policy making is dominated by powerful business organizations and a small number of affluent Americans, then our claims to being a 'democratic society' are seriously overstated.

Here's one example of a special interest group that dominates certain aspects of politics today. I'll make reference to this group since it concerns the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh. Other policies such as EPA regulation, Banking regulations, Immigration policies are all changed, modified or eliminated in favor of special interest groups, they do not represent the interests of the majority. So, if you're a Democrat, Republican or Independent, it doesn't really matter very much because you have no voice, you have no decision making whatsoever no matter who you vote for. It's all being done 'on your behalf' by wealthy donors and special interest groups.

Evangelical Leaders Are Frustrated at G.O.P. Caution on Kavanaugh Allegation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/20/us/politics/brett-kavanaugh-religious-voters.html
 
American said:
Send all the liberals to the Middle East.
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They're already there. Where do you think soldiers come from. From sons of Rich folks. Hell no, they don't go. Check with "bone spurs" on that.
/
 
Casca XV said:
I prefer the term Leftist over Liberal. Up until the time of FDR the term Liberal described a person who is the exact opposite of what it describes today.

A favorite propaganda tactic of the Left is hijacking positive or cool sounding titles and redefining terms.

The defining difference between todays Left and Right is that Leftist have a Collectivist mindset and the Right has an Individualist mindset.

The US Constitution is the ultimate document of Individualism. That is why most Leftist don't really it. Example: Obama referring to the US Constitution as a "Charter of Negative Liberties".

Every type of Collectivist Ideology: Socialism, Fascism, Communism etc. requires an all powerful Govt just to exist or function. (Yes, Fascism is Leftist, pre WW2 every Leftist from Lenin to FDR was happy to claim it as their own. Only after WW2 when the Holocaust became known did the Left start redefining terms and revising history).

Individualist ideology requires a limited power Govt. The US Constitutions protects freedom by limiting the power of the Govt. That is why the US Constitution cant outlaw any ideology even one as destructive as Leftism.
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The only problem with a true free-market libertarian individualist society is that it's destined to be temporary. Without a government of the people powerful enough to take away individual liberties at need, there is nothing to stop an individual (or group) of accumulating enough power to do the same. A permanent prohibition against a collectivist government allows any sufficiently intelligent and ruthless individual to accumulate enough power to make him or herself a defacto government who can make any law they desire. One of the first things any large, powerful corporation does is attempt to minimize competition by any legal means possible. Collectivist policies are healthy for a society so long as they maintain the balance of power. The left's argument is that we live in a society with extremely powerful individuals, and we therefore must match that power with government regulations. We can argue over how those regulations should work, but shrinking the government as a whole is akin to shooting ourselves in the foot.
 
lwf said:
The only problem with a true free-market libertarian individualist society is that it's destined to be temporary. Without a government of the people powerful enough to take away individual liberties at need, there is nothing to stop an individual (or group) of accumulating enough power to do the same..
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libertarians and conservative love a big govt as long as its purpose is to promote and defend libertarian/conservative principles. When they say they are against govt they are not speaking literally but rather they are saying they are against govt that does other things than promote and defend conservative /libertarian principles. Now do you understand?
 
Casca XV said:
The US Constitution is the ultimate document of Individualism. That is why most Leftist don't really[like it] it. Example: Obama referring to the US Constitution as a "Charter of Negative Liberties".
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another example: liberals describing the Constitution as a living Constitution which is say a living communist constitution, the exact opposite of what our Founders had in mind!
 
Cordelier said:
But I get your gist... a single party state where everyone must tow the ideological line is what the constitution is all about. After all, that's why your grandfather died fighting Communism during World War II, was it not?
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correct!! our genius Founders hated parties or factions so left of with a one idea state. That idea was individual freedom from big liberal govt. Now despite their efforts we have treasonous liberals shamelessly taking over. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
correct!! our genius Founders hated parties or factions so left of with a one idea state. That idea was individual freedom from big liberal govt. Now despite their efforts we have treasonous liberals shamelessly taking over. Do you understand?
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Seems to me that the Founding Fathers were only really interested in individual freedom only so far as it applied to white, property-owning males... everyone else pretty much got the short end of the stick, did they not?
 
Cordelier said:
Seems to me that the Founding Fathers were only really interested in individual freedom only so far as it applied to white, property-owning males... everyone else pretty much got the short end of the stick, did they not?
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how does freedom give one the short end of stick?? America got rich and now China is coping and they too are getting rich. Ever hear of East/West Germany??
 
James972 said:
?? they were liberals for very tiny govt just like modern conservatives. The meaning of the word changed but not the concept of limited govt or freedom . Do you understand?
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Conservatives don't want a tiny Govt., they want a big Govt. that brutally enforces their backwards ideology on women and minorities. Govt. grows FASTER when Conservaives are in charge...and so do deficits.

tenure.jpg


https://mises.org/wire/if-you-want-bigger-government-vote-republican
 
James972 said:
Obamacare, free college, $15/hour are but 3 of the latest welfare entitlements in the never ending liberal pipeline. Do you understand?


Norman Thomas ( socialist presidential candidate)
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.
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The American people will never knowingly adopt feudalism. But under the name of Conservatism they will adopt every fragment of the feudalist program, until one day America will be a feudalist nation, without ever knowing how it happened.

(Me, paraphrasing Norman Thomas.)
 
What if...? said:
The American people will never knowingly adopt feudalism. But under the name of Conservatism they will adopt every fragment of the feudalist program, until one day America will be a feudalist nation, without ever knowing how it happened.

(Me, paraphrasing Norman Thomas.)
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??? who is talking about feudalism?????
 
James972 said:
Let's keep in mind that democracy is not our strength since liberals get to vote too. Our strength is the Constitution which was intended to make big liberal magical govt illegal, and freedom the law of the land. Conservatives are the real Americans who believe in the principles of the Constitution. Thus it is they who set Europe free from big liberal magical govt through two world wars and they who just set 1.4 billion Chinese free from big liberal magical govt uniting most of the world in a peaceful common ideology. Oh, and there is no reason to acknowledge our faults (which are trivial in the big picture) to suit treasonous liberals who oppose everything for which our Founders and modern conservative Americans stand. So what do we do with liberals who really don't belong here in the first place and who constantly interfere with our good works?
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Not a single part of this post is accurate.

The people are the strength of any country.
Our constitution defines the democratic system used to harness that strength.

As to the other drivel, if you spin a lie enough times people believe it.
 
James972 said:
Let's keep in mind that democracy is not our strength since liberals get to vote too. Our strength is the Constitution which was intended to make big liberal magical govt illegal, and freedom the law of the land. Conservatives are the real Americans who believe in the principles of the Constitution. Thus it is they who set Europe free from big liberal magical govt through two world wars and they who just set 1.4 billion Chinese free from big liberal magical govt uniting most of the world in a peaceful common ideology. Oh, and there is no reason to acknowledge our faults (which are trivial in the big picture) to suit treasonous liberals who oppose everything for which our Founders and modern conservative Americans stand. So what do we do with liberals who really don't belong here in the first place and who constantly interfere with our good works?
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No it is not. The twentieth century is full societies that helped individual outsider politicians push their constitutions into extremes, thus destroying their democracies.

Our strength is our faith in our democracy and our acknowledgement that the Constitution doesn't cover everything. For this we rely upon constitutional norms in order to force all political players to behave. We have historical precedents where both parties worked together to keep extremists out and to restrain seated Presidents who tried to go too far with their executive powers (Andrew Johnson, FDR).

We currently live in a political environment where we prefer political extremes and blatant disregard for our constitutional norms. Case in point: some people like to wave the Constitution around like toilet paper in order to build false platforms that seek to demonize their fellow American citizens into a place where they can be branded as an "enemy" in need of persecution.
 
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James972 said:
Let's keep in mind that democracy is not our strength since liberals get to vote too. Our strength is the Constitution which was intended to make big liberal magical govt illegal, and freedom the law of the land. Conservatives are the real Americans who believe in the principles of the Constitution. Thus it is they who set Europe free from big liberal magical govt through two world wars and they who just set 1.4 billion Chinese free from big liberal magical govt uniting most of the world in a peaceful common ideology. Oh, and there is no reason to acknowledge our faults (which are trivial in the big picture) to suit treasonous liberals who oppose everything for which our Founders and modern conservative Americans stand. So what do we do with liberals who really don't belong here in the first place and who constantly interfere with our good works?
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I'm going to try this one more time.

The Constitution does not make liberalism, conservatism or any other political ideology illegal.

A bit of history for you. Our Founding Fathers actually disliked the idea of party affiliation. They actually wanted to ban it. However they knew that they couldn't. To them it was a "necessary evil". You can read all about this by studying and examining their notes on the matter. For starters look up what John Adams said about it. Or George Washington who made an entire speech about it in his farewell Presidential speech. Yet he was a part of the Federalist Party.

And then, look to the 1st Amendment. Study it and its clauses and what they mean. It guarantee's the Right to Freedom of Association. Though the 1st Amendment does not mention it directly there are clauses in it that would be impossible to do effectively without some sort of party affiliation.

And yes, "liberal" is a type of party affiliation. It is a group of people that have like beliefs.
 
James972 said:
Let's keep in mind that democracy is not our strength since liberals get to vote too. Our strength is the Constitution which was intended to make big liberal magical govt illegal, and freedom the law of the land. Conservatives are the real Americans who believe in the principles of the Constitution. Thus it is they who set Europe free from big liberal magical govt through two world wars and they who just set 1.4 billion Chinese free from big liberal magical govt uniting most of the world in a peaceful common ideology. Oh, and there is no reason to acknowledge our faults (which are trivial in the big picture) to suit treasonous liberals who oppose everything for which our Founders and modern conservative Americans stand. So what do we do with liberals who really don't belong here in the first place and who constantly interfere with our good works?
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From your post, it sounds like a few courses in logic and history would be a good mandatory start.
 
code1211 said:
From your post, it sounds like a few courses in logic and history would be a good mandatory start.
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if so the liberal would not be so afraid to show where there is lack of logic and history. What does the liberal learn from his fear?
 
Kal'Stang said:
The Constitution does not make liberalism, conservatism or any other political ideology illegal.
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of course it does, by limiting central govt to a few enumerated powers Constitution in effect makes liberalism illegal. This is why liberals fight for a living communist Constitution and conservatives for a dead Constitution. Surely you understand now??
 
Kal'Stang said:
A bit of history for you. Our Founding Fathers actually disliked the idea of party affiliation.
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They sure did; thats why they gave us the Constitution which told us what party we were all in , namely, the conservative party which supported tiny tiny central govt with only a few carefully enumerated powers. It worked fine until Marxism got popular and stayed popular even after it killed 120 million very very slowly. Now surely you understand?
 
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