Kavanaugh 65 women letter is fishy

Kavanaugh 65 women letter is fishy

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Think back to when you were in high school. If you went to a school like Prep and had a corresponding social circle, all the better.

Thinking back to my boarding school days and about my classmates and "friends" back home, kids who, for the most part were just like me but for their going to Prep, Episcopal, Madeira, and St. Albans/NCS (all in the D.C. area) and similar day schools, while I had a the typically large circle of "friends" prep schoolers have, one that included some several hundred kids, the reality is that, as with all of us, only a small few, about a dozen or so, not 65 kids with whom one didn't go to school, were well enough known to any one of us that one could credibly remark on the quality of their character and comportment.

"So and so" was a "fox," and we crossed paths from time to time and recognized each other, but she didn't go to my school, so all I knew was that she was nice, good looking, went to "this or that" school, and was good friends with "so and so." I never saw her do anything bizarre at parties and whatnot, so, sure, if asked about her today, I wouldn't have anything derogatory to say.

Similarly, with even the boys with whom I had "major" disagreements (we kids had our tussles, but nobody ever assaulted me -- if someone had, yes, I'd mention it were they on the cusp of becoming a major public official -- POTUS, VPOTUS, JSCOTUS, or a governor, for example), we were just kids. I wouldn't today disparage them, mainly because nobody whom I didn't get along well with remained in my closer circle of friends and acquaintances. After we parted ways, be it during our high school years or later to go to college and/or to start non-intersecting careers, I lost touch with them. So what would there be for me to say? Remember what Mother taught you? If you haven't something nice to say, say nothing. Insofar as I wouldn't rag on someone over their typical (for kids in my social set and for the times) teenage cavorting, like those 65 women from Kavanaugh's high school years, I wouldn't have anything bad to say.

That said, Kavanaugh isn't that much younger than I, and I have siblings much closer to his age. His high school years, like mine, surely were full of bacchanal parties. (The drinking age back then was 18, and anyone who wanted one had a good enough fake ID.) I can't say whether he did or didn't do what what's been asserted, but I can say that I wouldn't put it past a drunk 17/18 year-old from a patrician background to try something of that nature. Moreover, those were the days when girls wouldn't say anything, particularly if they didn't get beaten and bruised. A girl to whom such a thing happened would have been very pissed and subsequently want nothing to do with the guy, but it's unlikely that she'd ever say anything about it to hers or anyone's parents. That sort of thing just wasn't done unless some real physical harm clearly transpired. Indeed, a girl making such an accusation was likely to find she, not the boy(s), suffered social ostracization for having done so.

In light of all that, I believe the woman. I get why she's had nothing to say about it for the past 30-odd years -- it's not as though Kavanaugh's name has long and frequently been in the news, to say nothing of her likely having put the incident behind her. She's moved on with her life and surely wasn't carrying a grudge to the point of keeping current re: Brett's goings on and achievements.

Was what Kavanaugh is alleged to have done wrong? Yes. That the times forbore and/or discounted the odiousness of such behavior doesn't make that kind of behavior right. Do I think being an inebriated and hormone-driven teen boy's assaulting a girl disqualifies one for a position on the SCOTUS? Yes, because it speaks to an aspect of one's character, an aspect of it that's been present since one youth. Such a teen has lived his/her whole life having gotten away with such a thing and may even now be denying it. I'm sorry, I don't want a jurist like that sitting on the SCOTUS bench.

Having, or even knowingly risking having such a person on the highest court in the land contravenes all I would expect of judges in general, and all the more so SCOTUS jurists. Why even "go there" or risk doing so when there are other conservative judges, judges about whom no such concern will be posed, who can sit there and who would deliver equally conservative decisions?

cpwill said:

I don't know if my favorite part of this is your implicit claim that there is no such thing as electronic media, allowing the rapid dissemination of information, or that your argument hinges on the fact that since girls didn't want to friend you on social media, obviously Kavanaugh must be in the same boat.



Regardless, other folks have already reached out to the women in question about this particularly stupid conspiracy theory ("A-HA! People on both the right and the left are willing to come forward as a character witness to say that this guy is a fundamentally decent person! On someone truly evil and conniving could have that happen!!!!!"), and it's already been debunked - the women responded after Senator Feinstein decided to latch on to the Worlds Dumbest Smearjob by discussing the letter that she got from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone... which the FBI dismissed in approximately 0.3 seconds.




I don't know if ya'll have thought down the road on this. You know what this means the next time folks try to accuse a Republican of being a sexual offender, right? It means no one outside your own echo chamber is going to take it seriously, because ya'll are burning your credibility crying wolf with Kavanaugh. Like when you spent all that effort decrying Mitt Romney and John McCain of being vicious racists, and so no one believed you when it came to Trump.

We are increasingly living in a moment where women feel empowered to come forward with their stories of abuse, exposing men in power for what they've done. Please stop ****ing it up for them by trying to weaponize it - you're only going to cause them to have a harder time being believed.

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uh I voted for Mitt Romney.

Xelor said:

"So and so" was a "fox," and we crossed paths from time to time and recognized each other, but she didn't go to my school, so all I knew was that she was nice, good looking, went to "this or that" school, and was good friends with "so and so." I never saw her do anything bizarre at parties and whatnot, so, sure, if asked about her today, I wouldn't have anything derogatory to say.

Similarly, with even the boys with whom I had "major" disagreements (we kids had our tussles, but nobody ever assaulted me -- if someone had, yes, I'd mention it were they on the cusp of becoming a major public official -- POTUS, VPOTUS, JSCOTUS, or a governor, for example), we were just kids. I wouldn't today disparage them, mainly because nobody whom I didn't get along well with remained in my closer circle of friends and acquaintances. After we parted ways, be it during our high school years or later to go to college and/or to start non-intersecting careers, I lost touch with them. So what would there be for me to say? Remember what Mother taught you? If you haven't something nice to say, say nothing. Insofar as I wouldn't rag on someone over their typical (for kids in my social set and for the times) teenage cavorting, like those 65 women from Kavanaugh's high school years, I wouldn't have anything bad to say.

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But would you have signed a grassroots petition claiming that she was an honorable person, and I quote, "A saint."

NeverTrumpGOP said:

uh I voted for Mitt Romney.

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Cool. Then you came in here and pushed one of the most ridiculous arguments (and, that is impressive, given the times we live in) seen recently: that people of all stripes being willing to instantly stick up for his character is, in fact, indication of a conspiracy involving his lack thereof. The next time you accuse a Trump administration official or nominee of anything, we know your accusations aren't credible. :shrug:

cpwill said:

Cool. Then you came in here and pushed one of the most ridiculous arguments (and, that is impressive, given the times we live in) seen recently: that people of all stripes being willing to instantly stick up for his character is, in fact, indication of a conspiracy involving his lack thereof. The next time you accuse a Trump administration official or nominee of anything, we know your accusations aren't credible. :shrug:

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hahaha wow. So it is your belief that the most incompetent GOP in history magically or perhaps through the power of "yearbooks," got 65 women to say that kavanaugh is a saint. 65 women who appear to have had a grassroots efforts to put this together at the same time the Democrats are attacking kavanaugh. 65 women who didn't seem to know about the allegations but praised him anyway. 65 women with oddly similar Republican partisan talking points about the Democrats, sneaky Dianne Feinstein, and how they are shocked about the allegations against him.

Look I get it, both sides did a botched up job of this. The way the PR was handled on this idea from the Democrats was terrible, but you cannot go on about a secret Democratic plot cooked up with cooperation from the FBI and say that my questioning of the way in which this letter was put together and so quickly doesn't deserve some type of answers or looking into. Especially when the Democrat plot is so far failing so spectacularly.

I've been reading more from the people who signed the letter and they aren't exactly praising kavanaugh. They are more vindictive attack pieces on Democrats for daring to accuse another old white guy of sexual assault. Where have we heard this before?? Oh right, in every freaking #metoo scandal that has come out!

NeverTrumpGOP said:

hahaha wow. So it is your belief that the most incompetent GOP in history magically or perhaps through the power of "yearbooks," got 65 women to say that kavanaugh is a saint.

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Hey, NT, How are you accessing this debate forum?

Are you using some kind of system of interconnected computers that allow for rapid communication and organization of information?

some kind of "net" that is also "inter"?




There is, thus far, exactly zero evidence supporting the claim that Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist. We do not even have an accusation - we have a letter sent by someone who got it from someone who heard it from somewhat else that the FBI rejected as soon as it got it. And so, you leap onto the claim that the evidence available to the contrary is in fact proof of the conspiracy.




Yeesh. It's like arguing with the people who insisted Hillary & Co. ran a child prostitution network out of pizza parlor. "Oh, the evidence says otherwise? Well that's just how sneaky they are!!!" :roll:

NeverTrumpGOP said:

Do the Republicans expect the public to believe that a bunch of WH interns or clerks went around calling up every single woman in Kavanaugh's HS and demand that they give an unequivocal, "he's a good guy," stamp of approval?? Let alone that it happened after 5 PM Thursday night, with a letter prepared for the media friday morning???

Also Kavanaugh went to a boys only prep school, so these were women from neighboring schools. Near me there was local boys prep school that some of my friends went to during HS and what do you think their biggest complaint was? That's right, it was how they missed the girls and making out in between classes.

How did Republicans find 65 women who had some sort of contact with him 30 years ago, and say he's a good guy? IDK about you, but most of the girls in HS wanted NOTHING to do with me and I didn't go to a prep school for boys. It's only been ten years for me, and I can only name like 5 girls I knew.

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I really don't have a good idea of what it's like to go to a large school. I went to a country high-school off the state highway, surrounded by cornfields and consisting of a little over a hundred students. Everyone knew of each other, but I personally kept mostly to myself, and was not terribly aqaunted with most students beyond my twenty-student class. Being that I was weird and awkward back then (not to mention short-tempered) I wouldn't exactly use what former peers thought of me as a guide for how Kavanaugh's peers probaly see him.

It's hard for me to imagine being able to remember sixty-five women, or being remembered by that many people, but I'm a reclusive introvert living in a rural area; I have all of two contacts on my cell-phone, and both are immediate family members.

It's pretty obvious that Feinstein's late withholdment and this defense letter are both political maneuvers, but that doesn't tell me anything about the validity of the accusations.

cpwill said:

There is, thus far, exactly zero evidence supporting the claim that Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist. We do not even have an accusation - we have a letter sent by someone who got it from someone who heard it from somewhat else that the FBI rejected as soon as it got it. And so, you leap onto the claim that the evidence available to the contrary is in fact proof of the conspiracy.

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We don't have much evidence about who started the letter campaign, or why, and how it got into Republicans hands either. As of this time there are two things going on. The women claim it was started by a couple of friends at Kavanaugh's HS and then it somehow got into the hands of one Mr. Chuck Grassley. This all happened between Thursday night and Friday morning. How did they know to hand it over to Grassley? How did they get 65? Why did they reach that number?

I also do not understand/know why Feinstein hid the letter from fellow Democrats before now if she knew about it for two months. Yes, it seems like it was done to purposely derail his nomination and it failed horribly. Those are questions that should be asked too, but you can't dismiss one and not the other.

DH Kirkwood said:

I really don't have a good idea of what it's like to go to a large school. I went to a country high-school off the state highway, surrounded by cornfields and consisting of a little over a hundred students. Everyone knew of each other, but I personally kept mostly to myself, and was not terribly aqaunted with most students beyond my twenty-student class. Being that I was weird and awkward back then (not to mention short-tempered) I wouldn't exactly use what former peers thought of me as a guide for how Kavanaugh's peers probaly see him.

It's hard for me to imagine being able to remember sixty-five women, or being remembered by that many people, but I'm a reclusive introvert living in a rural area; I have all of two contacts on my cell-phone, and both are immediate family members.

It's pretty obvious that Feinstein's late withholdment and this defense letter are both political maneuvers, but that doesn't tell me anything about the validity of the accusations.

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You know I had a very similar HS experience which is why I automatically question the Kavanaugh-is-a-super-jock-king-frat-boy letter. That's why part of me thinks this is just another example of political theatrics gone too far and the politicians laughing at us all the way to the bank for believing it all. I would not be surprised if all or most of this is very exaggerated.

NeverTrumpGOP said:

We don't have much evidence about who started the letter campaign, or why, and how it got into Republicans hands either. As of this time there are two things going on. The women claim it was started by a couple of friends at Kavanaugh's HS and then it somehow got into the hands of one Mr. Chuck Grassley. This all happened between Thursday night and Friday morning. How did they know to hand it over to Grassley? How did they get 65? Why did they reach that number?

I also do not understand/know why Feinstein hid the letter from fellow Democrats before now if she knew about it for two months. Yes, it seems like it was done to purposely derail his nomination and it failed horribly. Those are questions that should be asked too, but you can't dismiss one and not the other.

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We have 65 people willing to put their name to a paper on one side. We have nothing on the other.

There are lots of plausible reasons for Feinstein to have kept the letter. Likely, she reached the same conclusion the FBI apparently did - that it was a nothingburger, not even rising to the standard of he-said-she-said, but rather, I-heard-it-from-someone-who-heard-it-from-someone-that.... and, when Kavanaugh proved not to have any actual dirt on him, decided to chuck her morals in order to play down to the level of POTUS. Maybe Feinstein also has information on how Ted Cruz's dad killed Kennedy.

How did they get to 65? If I was for some reason being nationally highlighted, and someone attempted to smear my character like this, I'm pretty sure I could get that number fairly quickly myself. Do you have no social media contacts with friends, classmates, etc.? Especially when your trigger is supposed to be:

"we happen to have collected on every single conversation held by every single aquaintance of every single Californian female, and are aware that one person told another person that she heard it from a person that... and she might have written a letter, and Feinstein might for reasons unknown be sitting on it for no particular idenfitiable purpose, and she might not choose to make the letter public, but publicly announce it's existence in an attempt to create a non-falsifiable vague accusation (because there is nothing to actually defend against, as no specific accusation - or accuser -, actually exists at that point) as a dirty political smear job, and if that happens, obviously the secret weapon we can use to counter it is this letter signed by 65 - not 64, and 67 is just silly, that will never work, only 65 is the magic number - women, which will obviously prove that the not-thing that has been not-alleged by a not-accuser didn't not not happen!!!!"


Please tell me you see how utterly stupid this is.

65 is the number of women willing to put their name out there, who apparently signed up to do so when Kavanaugh's character came under smear by unfounded (as near as we can tell) accusation. The fact that people from both the right and the left are willing to attest to this guy's character is an indication of the guy's character. It's not evidence of some kind of Grand Conspiracy.

Hell, if anything, Conspiracy's are orders of magnitude harder to pull off than simply getting a bunch of folks to sign off on "yeah, I remember Kavanaugh - he was a good dude". You are claiming they aren't competent enough to get people to sign a letter, and instead arguing that they pulled off something far more difficult and complicated, which would have required significantly greater competence. Like ole George W, who was an incredible idiot but also an evil genius :roll:

It's odd that Republicans had 65 rebuttals to the accusation ready to go. It looks like they were aware of it well in advance and prepared accordingly.

NeverTrumpGOP said:

But would you have signed a grassroots petition claiming that she was an honorable person, and I quote, "A saint."

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No, not for him nor any other "friend" who isn't among the small few folks whom I know really, really well.

fishy is disgusting POS's like Feinswine and the malodorous Gloria Allred dredging up some BS from a hs party when Kavanaugh was underage KNOWING NOTHING ILLEGAL happened and the "victim" wasn't willing to testify anyway and hoping insinuations of "REFERRING THIS TO THE FBI" would matter. Those two assholes should be in prison for crimes against common sense and decorum

Cardinal said:

It's odd that Republicans had 65 rebuttals to the accusation ready to go. It looks like they were aware of it well in advance and prepared accordingly.

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you don't think the stench of the assholes trying to derail the man wasn't obvious?

TurtleDude said:

you don't think the stench of the assholes trying to derail the man wasn't obvious?

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It sounds like they knew the accusation already existed.

TurtleDude said:

fishy is disgusting POS's like Feinswine and the malodorous Gloria Allred dredging up some BS from a hs party when Kavanaugh was underage KNOWING NOTHING ILLEGAL happened and the "victim" wasn't willing to testify anyway and hoping insinuations of "REFERRING THIS TO THE FBI" would matter. Those two assholes should be in prison for crimes against common sense and decorum

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Referring to a Jew as a swine is unworthy of you.

Parrish said:

Referring to a Jew as a swine is unworthy of you.

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I could call her a c--- too but Feinswine --it rhymes with her name. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HER ETHNICITY. and what does being Jewish do concerning calling her a swine. ZERO NADA ZILCH. Your stupid argument isn't kosher!

go engage in faux indignation somewhere else.

TurtleDude said:

I could call her a c--- too but Feinswine --it rhymes with her name. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HER ETHNICITY. and what does being Jewish do concerning calling her a swine. ZERO NADA ZILCH. Your stupid argument isn't kosher!

go engage in faux indignation somewhere else.

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You proved my comment correct.

Parrish said:

You proved my comment correct.

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no you proved you had nothing relevant to say. why is it impermissible to call someone who is Jewish a swine? do you think its the same as say calling a black "a monkey". where do you get the idea that "swine" has an ethnic animus when it comes to Jews? I've been calling that Left wing POS Feinswine for YEARS and you are the first to try to insinuate some sort of anti-semiticism or claiming its impermissible to call someone who happens to be Jewish (which doesn't even remotely figure into my ire towards her) a "swine".

TurtleDude said:

no you proved you had nothing relevant to say. why is it impermissible to call someone who is Jewish a swine? do you think its the same as say calling a black "a monkey". where do you get the idea that "swine" has an ethnic animus when it comes to Jews? I've been calling that Left wing POS Feinswine for YEARS and you are the first to try to insinuate some sort of anti-semiticism or claiming its impermissible to call someone who happens to be Jewish (which doesn't even remotely figure into my ire towards her) a "swine".

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WOW. Thanks for showing everyone just who and what you are.

Parrish said:

WOW. Thanks for showing everyone just who and what you are.

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well given someone already liked my post and no one has yet done that for yours, I suspect people realize your comments are just plain stupid and mere drama llama lamentations

Parrish said:

Referring to a Jew as a swine is unworthy of you.

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The name-calling in the Republican party is truly despicable. Even the worst liberal name-calling you can have a policy debate over. These nick-names from the right are always usually about skin color or appearance. And it starts from the top because they have a leader who is the most thin-skinned President in history.

I can see already this thread is about to devolve into an exercise in race-baiting.

cpwill said:

We have 65 people willing to put their name to a paper on one side. We have nothing on the other.

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I call BS on the process. Usually with stuff like this it goes viral online before it ever hits the Senate. I have not seen this thing go viral whatsoever. In fact, I had to do some digging to actually see a copy of the letter, which btw only had 65 typed up names. Also even if all the names on the letter are proven to be genuine, just because 65 people account for your good name, does not mean that you didn't have an incident with a different person.

So if we are going down this rabbit hole, let me just add that it's pretty easy just to type up names on a word document and hire a couple of people to give quotes to right wing periodicals. Especially if the writer of the letter is Victoria Hume, the daughter of Fox News' Britt Hume!! Even her so-called, "defense" of her own letter is seriously lacking in details of supposedly "how it happened."

Yup not staged at all, but I love how conservatives continue to defend elite ivy leagues. Go Swamp Go!

NeverTrumpGOP said:

The name-calling in the Republican party is truly despicable. Even the worst liberal name-calling you can have a policy debate over. These nick-names from the right are always usually about skin color or appearance. And it starts from the top because they have a leader who is the most thin-skinned President in history.

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more drama llama bleatings that ignore reality. one, I am not an official nor spokesperson for the GOP. the only party I have ever represented officially was the Libertarian Party. and what does skin color or appearance have to do with what I call Feinswine? we get the fact your posts ooze TDS nonsense.