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How far gone is the right/

jbander said:
When their president takes away someones security clearance for not lying for him or the ***** Grabber believing that his people have no 1st amendment rights if they they don't grovel at his feet for everyone of the non stop lies that comes from his mouth. All the time the right excepts the non stop lies and thinks it's just dandy as far as the wacko monsters actions are concerned . They support this countries biggest threat. A man who has sold out this country for power and his party support his sell outs without even a second thought.
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Hmm....someone with a VERY LIBERAL lean bashing Trump in a thread they started.
How unique. Tell me more.:coffeepap
 
The Right has become the postmodern dystopia they warned us about.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
 
Slingshot Bob said:
At least he admits it, those posters claiming conservative but obvious RINOS are a joke.
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Very true.
I prefer an honest true believer in what they say than someone giving me lip service then doing what they want once in office.

It is just this particular OP is as predictable as the tide.
 
Amelia said:
Bottom line: From 2000 through 2015, with one exception, I was a reliable vote for Republicans. On the one exception, I just abstained from voting, because even though the GOP candidate was repugnant I wouldn't vote for a Democrat.

Now, thanks to such people as Paul Ryan, Scott Walker and Donald Trump, I will vote Democrat for the foreseeable future.


I appear to have lots of company in this. Trump squeaked out a win by the skin of his teeth. Between the people leaving the GOP and the left-leaning voters who went third party in 2016 but who know the importance of banding against Trump, Democrats are on track to more than overcome the tiny margin by which Trump won my state. This appears to be the case in other midwestern states which Republicans hoped they had permanently flipped to red.
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Yep. Here in ohio internal polls have Sherrod Brown up by 20.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Apparently it is perfectly "okay" for Trump to strip security clearances from people he hates, but Peter Strzok expressing his dislike in a private text message is cause for beheading.
Ohhhh, the irony.

Yeah, pretty ****ing far gone :lamo
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It was more than just his dislike. Strzok was part of the conspiracy to deceive the FISA court to get a warrant to spy on the Trump campaign. This was way worse than Watergate. It has yet to be punished. This abuse of power was given the green light by the Obama Administration and the Clintons. Trump has learn how to put the squeeze from Mueller and his band of hit men, to get to the bigger fish. Security clearances should not be given to criminals. Hillary should lose her clearance since Comey said she was very careless with classified information. Maybe Obama needs to lose his too for corruption.

Hillary and the DNC paid and colluded with foreign agents, that included Russians, to create the fake Dossier, so they could lie to the FISA court. Then they blame Trump for collusion as a diversion. Once the second special investigation into Democrat corruption gets underway, Trump will look like an innocent school girl by comparison. Fake news will try not to report anything about Democrat corruption, but they will not be able to prevent others from capitalizing on it. FOX's market share will skyrocket.

As far as the deficit going up, if you recall Trump signed a spending bill he had to hold his nose to sign. Congress gave both the Republicans and the Democrats everything they wanted as a gesture of cooperation. Trump is now backstabbed and has vowed not to sign any such bill again. Trump says he shut down the government, until it learned to tighten its belt. This will help the deficit. The left will then complain that lowering the deficit is bad, since this is all about deception/perception and not about the truth.
 
Amelia said:
My claim was specifically about religious rightwingers. I didn't say all religious people. I didn't say all rightwingers.

But a very large and therefore very disturbing number of what's left of the GOP are indeed giving Trump strong approval numbers within the GOP.

And you see the behavior on this forum. People pretzelling themselves to find some way to defend Trump no matter how bad or hypocritical or dishonest or ignorant or destructive his behavior is.


If Trump supporters were just holding their nose and supporting him because they didn't like the alternative or because of SCOTUS, that would be understandable. But very many are fawning over him in ways which put the Obama cult of personality to shame. It's a cancer in the GOP.
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Your intent is clear -- you're trying to smear Trump by insinuating that he's somehow like his fringe supporters. That's one of the oldest, and lamest, tricks in the book.

And, you will find people who defend Trump against nonsense, just as you found people who defended Obama, GWB, and their predecessors from nonsense.

When the criticism is real, and substantial, then you'll find his supporters, saying they wish he would not do that, but that it won't stop them from supporting him overall. That's the way it works -- the way it's worked since the dawn of our nation -- and what's really odd is when we have people who think it's all new and different.
 
jbander said:
God these people are bore asses, they come in say nothing and think they made a statement that means something. Listen I'll make it simple for this one , I don't care if you think I am dumb and I don't care if you hate me. That said if you can't do anymore then that, if you can't contribute your gone. Say go ahead.
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Can you repeat that in English?
 
jbander said:
Well your lie about you remembering me doing anything is nonsense and stupid. This country has to get rid of the ***** grabber and his whole hate party , so no big guy I won't tone it down ,no patriot should, we all have to stand against these Nazi wannabes.
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Yawn... okay..

the problem is.. your attitude and your posts is helping Trump win and hurting the democrat party.

but far be it from me to interrupt your rants and hyperbole.

Carry on.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Your intent is clear -- you're trying to smear Trump by insinuating that he's somehow like his fringe supporters. That's one of the oldest, and lamest, tricks in the book.

And, you will find people who defend Trump against nonsense, just as you found people who defended Obama, GWB, and their predecessors from nonsense.

When the criticism is real, and substantial, then you'll find his supporters, saying they wish he would not do that, but that it won't stop them from supporting him overall. That's the way it works -- the way it's worked since the dawn of our nation -- and what's really odd is when we have people who think it's all new and different.
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but when the criticism is real and substantial..

Then people that voted for Trump.. because they didn;t like Hillary.. or because they simply thought he was the right Candidate.. have a good chance of NOT supporting him in the next election.

Now.. if the criticism is based on hyperbole.. and worse.. if the criticism of trump is such that it implies that anyone that voted for him is a racist/Nazi./ etc...

then what happens is that you have alienated the very people you want to vote your way.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Your intent is clear -- you're trying to smear Trump by insinuating that he's somehow like his fringe supporters. That's one of the oldest, and lamest, tricks in the book.

And, you will find people who defend Trump against nonsense, just as you found people who defended Obama, GWB, and their predecessors from nonsense.

When the criticism is real, and substantial, then you'll find his supporters, saying they wish he would not do that, but that it won't stop them from supporting him overall. That's the way it works -- the way it's worked since the dawn of our nation -- and what's really odd is when we have people who think it's all new and different.
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When I was focusing merely on religious evangelicals earlier and you were trying to minimize my comment as much as possible, even you conceded that that portion of evangelicals who called Trump a good role model for young people added up to 13% of America.

13% of America is hardly fringe.

And this Alice-in-Wonderland up-is-down evangelical 13% is NOT the only part of America who have joined the cult of Trump.

The totals probably go up to at least 20% if not higher.



This is not fringe. This is an alarming number of people who are illustrating how good people can take those first steps down the path that good people of Germany followed in the 1930's.
 
jaeger19 said:
but when the criticism is real and substantial..

Then people that voted for Trump.. because they didn;t like Hillary.. or because they simply thought he was the right Candidate.. have a good chance of NOT supporting him in the next election.

Now.. if the criticism is based on hyperbole.. and worse.. if the criticism of trump is such that it implies that anyone that voted for him is a racist/Nazi./ etc...

then what happens is that you have alienated the very people you want to vote your way.
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This is very true. As a disenchanted Republican but non-Obama-supporter who was struggling with whether I could support Hillary or not, a lot of Hillary supporters and a lot of "we don't like Hillary but we're patriots so we're holding our nose" people gave me hell for not already giving in to their side. When I mentioned that this was not a good way to treat people that you need to have voting with you, well, they got more offensive. How dare I tell them what they should do. Anyone who's not already supporting Hillary, they're lost causes. They don't need voters who would vote against Hillary just because they got their feelings hurt. .... stuff like that.

Completely ignoring the human factor. If Obama had not ignored the human factor early in his presidency, the Tea Party might never have gotten traction. So then we had Hillary ignoring the human factor -- not even visiting Wisconsin after she lost to Sanders in the primary. And we had Trump who is rotted to his core -- but he has a strange instinct about that human factor which he deploys when he's not out grabbing ******s without asking and watching underaged girls change their clothes and saying bizarre things about black people and Mexicans ... and Canadians.

So at another forum, I posted a thread about how if Hillary needed my vote in Wisconsin, then she had much bigger problems than my vote. And I was told flat out that Hillary didn't need me.

Well, apparently she did need me and a few thousand more like me.



Sooooo ... long story short, I know you're right. I know that we need to take some care regarding people in the middle who know Trump is sludge but who might not yet be convinced that Democrats deserve their vote.
 
jaeger19 said:
but when the criticism is real and substantial..

Then people that voted for Trump.. because they didn;t like Hillary.. or because they simply thought he was the right Candidate.. have a good chance of NOT supporting him in the next election.

Now.. if the criticism is based on hyperbole.. and worse.. if the criticism of trump is such that it implies that anyone that voted for him is a racist/Nazi./ etc...

then what happens is that you have alienated the very people you want to vote your way.
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We've already heard the sentiments -- they chose Trump as the lesser of two evils -- meaning those who voted were adamantly opposed to Hillary. Had the dems run virtually anyone else, Trump would likely not be in the Oval Office today.

However, whether or not they support him in the next general election will hinge, once again, on who his opponent is. If the Dems don't start thinking clearly, he could win a second term.
 
Amelia said:
This is very true. As a disenchanted Republican but non-Obama-supporter who was struggling with whether I could support Hillary or not, a lot of Hillary supporters and a lot of "we don't like Hillary but we're patriots so we're holding our nose" people gave me hell for not already giving in to their side. .
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Everything you post is so far off in Left field that if you were ever a Republican, which I highly doubt, it was in name only.

The problem is not with those who vote for a candidate (Trump) just to keep another one from winning (Hillary), the problem is with the mentality of the party who chose to run Hillary in the first place.

When you say that some in the middle might not understand that Democrats deserve the vote, you've totally missed the big picture. No one deserves the vote. In order to win it - they must address the needs of all Americans - not just a concentrated majority that live in a handful of coastal states. Until the Dems learn that -- they don't deserve anything.
 
Amelia said:
My husband voted for Trump.

I'm not going to divorce him over it.

Even if he still supported Trump, I wouldn't divorce him over it.

Fortunately for me, he now thinks almost as badly of Trump as I do. But he doesn't take it as seriously as I do. He's not political. He's just trying to get by.
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The difference is what you think of the right compared to what I think of the right. They have or want to destroy everything of the values that makes this country what it is and their monetary profile can destroy our economy and with that the country. They are this countries biggest threat and enemy. I think you see the difference I'm talking about.
 
PleasantValley said:
Hmm....someone with a VERY LIBERAL lean bashing Trump in a thread they started.
How unique. Tell me more.:coffeepap
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Then being attacked by the wannabe Nazis, how Unique ,tell us more.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Everything you post is so far off in Left field that if you were ever a Republican, which I highly doubt, it was in name only.

The problem is not with those who vote for a candidate (Trump) just to keep another one from winning (Hillary), the problem is with the mentality of the party who chose to run Hillary in the first place.

When you say that some in the middle might not understand that Democrats deserve the vote, you've totally missed the big picture. No one deserves the vote. In order to win it - they must address the needs of all Americans - not just a concentrated majority that live in a handful of coastal states. Until the Dems learn that -- they don't deserve anything.
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Until recently, "Democrat" was a dirty word to me. The last time I voted for one was in the 90's. It was a seismic shift for me to consider voting for one in 2016. And it's only very recently that in spite of voting for all Democrats in 2016 (except Hillary), that my lip doesn't involuntarily curl when thinking of the word.

Yet now I'm looking to them to get their act together to save our country from the degradation of Trump and his enablers.

That I am willing to join forces with Democrats shows how bad the current GOP is.

And thank God there appear to be a lot more like me who are energetically opposed to what Trump represents.
 
jbander said:
The difference is what you think of the right compared to what I think of the right. They have or want to destroy everything of the values that makes this country what it is and their monetary profile can destroy our economy and with that the country. They are this countries biggest threat and enemy. I think you see the difference I'm talking about.
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I guess.

The fact remains that the left was so inadequate that after the right decided that Trump was the person who best represented what they had become in the past 8 years, the left was unable to defeat that pustule.

So .... the left is not exactly innocent.

Maybe the threat and the enemy is something else, something broader.
 
Amelia said:
That I am willing to join forces with Democrats shows how bad the current GOP is.
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That the GOP joined forces and supported a fringe candidate to keep Hillary from winning shows how bad the Democratic Party is.

And thank God there appear to be a lot more like me who are energetically opposed to what Trump represents.
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That's nothing new. They've been "energetically opposed" since before he won and they've performed all sorts of shenanigans because they lost. They do need to run a better candidate, but no one on the Dem side (to date) seems to be an up-and-comer that can actually win. Once again, we're seeing candidates who will draw a lot of criticism -- and that's okay -- Trump draws a lot of criticism.

What you need, however, instead of being "energetically opposed," is to get behind someone that has a message and a chance of winning. Until then, you're just spinning your wheels, expending a lot of energy in hatred focuses on Trump. You need someone that can counteract him.

However, your political positions are far from conservative, and I've never seen anyone do a complete flip-flip, even if they didn't like a specific candidate. Even if you changed away from the GOP due to Trump, you would still have mostly conservative opinions. That is, unless you just listen and absorb everything your new party says.
 
jbander said:
Thanks one less Nazi wannabe., your out of here.
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Come on -- if you want to post with the big boys, learn basic grammar. That "your" should be "you're," because it's a contraction of "you are." You did the very same thing in your last post. "Your" means that it "belongs to you," like your shoe.
 
HowardBThiname said:
That the GOP joined forces and supported a fringe candidate to keep Hillary from winning shows how bad the Democratic Party is.



That's nothing new. They've been "energetically opposed" since before he won and they've performed all sorts of shenanigans because they lost. They do need to run a better candidate, but no one on the Dem side (to date) seems to be an up-and-comer that can actually win. Once again, we're seeing candidates who will draw a lot of criticism -- and that's okay -- Trump draws a lot of criticism.

What you need, however, instead of being "energetically opposed," is to get behind someone that has a message and a chance of winning. Until then, you're just spinning your wheels, expending a lot of energy in hatred focuses on Trump. You need someone that can counteract him.

However, your political positions are far from conservative, and I've never seen anyone do a complete flip-flip, even if they didn't like a specific candidate. Even if you changed away from the GOP due to Trump, you would still have mostly conservative opinions. That is, unless you just listen and absorb everything your new party says.
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Not this B.S. again.


GOP does not equal conservative. If you think that GOP equals conservative then naturally you will have a hard time understanding where I am coming from. I didn't have to be conservative to be GOP. I was more of an Eisenhower Republican ideologically. Not being conservative helped me not feel too badly about being squeezed out of the GOP. But I didn't have to be conservative to be in the GOP and I was not.


Of course that begs the question of what it means to be conservative anyway. I did happen to be brought up in the patriarchal, prudish LDS church, and for a long time I followed its traditions, but the main way I was "conservative" was being opposed to too much change too quickly. I was not ideologically conservative and it was many many years since I made the mistake of claiming to be so. And didn't need to be in order to be in the GOP.

If I have flipped anywhere ideologically it is how I have worked to shake some neo-con foreign policy views which actually fit quite well with Hillary Clinton's positions.




Oh, and it was not the GOP being too conservative which made me decide to leave. It was the people who claimed to be conservatives NOT being fiscally responsible and not supporting veterans which made me think about leaving. Things built from there, and I left. And the GOP made the divorce final by choosing a *****-grabbing, tantrum-throwing Putin-lover as the face they wanted to show the world.

If the GOP had acted responsibly and supported investment in science, education, veterans, jobs, infrastructure, etc., I would probably still be GOP. Wanting investment in America is not far left. It's just plain American. And it used to be supported by the GOP.
 
Amelia said:
Not this B.S. again.


GOP does not equal conservative. If you think that GOP equals conservative then naturally you will have a hard time understanding where I am coming from. I didn't have to be conservative to be GOP. I was more of an Eisenhower Republican ideologically. Not being conservative helped me not feel too badly about being squeezed out of the GOP. But I didn't have to be conservative to be in the GOP and I was not.
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Not all who are in the GOP are conservative, that's true, but most are at least nominally fiscally conservative. Speaking of Eisenhower, were you aware that he threatened to use nukes in order to end the Korean War? That sounds vaguely like someone we know.

Of course that begs the question of what it means to be conservative anyway. I did happen to be brought up in the patriarchal, prudish LDS church, and for a long time I followed its traditions, but the main way I was "conservative" was being opposed to too much change too quickly. I was not ideologically conservative and it was many many years since I made the mistake of claiming to be so. And didn't need to be in order to be in the GOP.
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There was an LDS church next door to me when I lived in town. All good folks, but their clothing style seemed to be stuck in the 70s. Never had a minute of trouble from them.

Conservative (politically) means a number of things, foremost that of fiscal responsibility, but that has moderated over the years.

If I have flipped anywhere ideologically it is how I have worked to shake some neo-con foreign policy views which actually fit quite well with Hillary Clinton's positions.
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I agree on that point -- she is a hawk.
Oh, and it was not the GOP being too conservative which made me decide to leave. It was the people who claimed to be conservatives NOT being fiscally responsible and not supporting veterans which made me think about leaving. Things built from there, and I left. And the GOP made the divorce final by choosing a *****-grabbing, tantrum-throwing Putin-lover as the face they wanted to show the world.

If the GOP had acted responsibly and supported investment in science, education, veterans, jobs, infrastructure, etc., I would probably still be GOP. Wanting investment in America is not far left. It's just plain American. And it used to be supported by the GOP.
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Actually, I left too, the same year you did - but I switched to "unaffiliated." I agree with supporting science, veterans and infrastructure. I'm not sold anymore on throwing good money after bad in the education arena though.
 
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