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Probing Mueller

Mycroft said:
I have not pre-judged Mueller. In fact, up until recently I've been a supporter of his investigation because I believed he would easily send this "Trump/Russia" nonsense packing. Instead, he is only paying attention to small fry like Manafort and some Russians who will never see a day in court.

As more and more information is coming out, it is looking more and more like the Mueller investigation is nothing more than an extension of the corrupt Obama administration scheme directed against Trump. In effect, the Mueller investigation appears to be part of the "insurance policy" Strzok spoke of.

Now YOU may consider Mueller a stand-up guy...I consider him part and parcel of the Hate Trump movement.
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How do you think these investigations work? First you pick the low-hanging fruit, then you get them to turn on the next-higher guys, and so on and so on until you uncover just how deep the criminal activity goes.
 
Mycroft said:
I have not pre-judged Mueller [...] I consider him part and parcel of the Hate Trump movement.
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You contradict yourself as usual.

Mueller has only put out indictments, building the case, and given historical reference he's moving quite quickly. It's standard procedure to go after the smaller fish, try and get cooperation, and work their way inwards and upwards. This is common knowledge, it's been told to you on more than one occasion. So yeah, you pre-judged the Mueller investigation, while claiming you haven't.
 
Mach said:
You contradict yourself as usual.
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You haven't been paying attention to what I said.

Initially, I supported his investigation. As facts came out, he lost my support and I consider him part of the problem.

So no...no pre-judging on my part. My judgment changed as facts emerged.
 
Cordelier said:
To be perfectly honest with you, it sounds to me like you (and the Administration) have got a pretty advanced case of siege mentality.
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Not at all. In reality, I am wide open to facts and evidence...unlike most die-hard Trump haters.
 
Mycroft said:
You haven't been paying attention to what I said.

Initially, I supported his investigation. As facts came out, he lost my support and I consider him part of the problem.

So no...no pre-judging on my part. My judgment changed as facts emerged.
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What "facts" are you referring to?

As far as my point of view goes, I'm giving Mueller the benefit of the doubt. If he issues his report and it exonerates the President, I can accept that. However, if the President engineers his dismissal without just cause (consistent with 28 CFR §600.7(d)), the Second Coming of Christ laying His hands on the President and pronouncing his innocence wouldn't convince me.
 
marke said:
Google: Probing Mueller: What Were His Roles in Boston Mafia Murders, Uranium One and Other FBI Scandals?
William F. Jasper, The New American, 22 March 2018

Mike Albano, former member of the Mas. Parole Board and former Mayor of Springfield, Mass. objected to Mueller's reappointment as FBI Director because of his botched handling of a famous case where 4 men were falsely charged with and found guilty of a murder the FBI knew in advance they did not commit. Here is a quote from the article:

The FBI and DOJ framed the four scapegoats, who were then sent to prison for the Deegan murder to protect Bulger, his henchman Steve "The Rifleman" Flemmi, and Flemmi's brother, Vincent "Jimmy" Flemmi.
"After Albano was elected mayor of Springfield in 1995, he soon found the FBI hot on his tail, investigating his administration for corruption," Cullen noted. "The FBI took down several people in his administration, and Albano is convinced that the FBI wasn't interested in public integrity as much as in publicly humiliating him because he dared to defy them."

In 2001, Albano was vindicated. The four men who had been wrongly convicted in the Deegan murder were exonerated. Two of them had already died in prison. As a result of this shocking government malfeasance, the two surviving victims and the families of the deceased were awarded compensation of $100 million -- courtesy of the taxpayers.

"Albano was apalled that, later that same year, Mueller was appointed FBI Director, because it was Mueller, first as an assistant U.S. attorney then as the acting U.S. attorney in Boston, who wrote letter to the parole and pardon boards throughout the 1980s opposing clemency for the four men framed by the FBI lies," writes the Boston Globe's Cullen. "Of course, Mueller was also in that position while Whitey Bulger was helping the FBI cart off his criminal competitors even as he buried bodies in shallow graves along the Neponset."


Whitey Bulger was not only a mass murdering thug protected by the FBI as an informant, but his brother, William Bulger, was a Democrat power boss, the longest president of the state senate and former President of the University of Massachusetts, a position he lost in disgrace when it was discovered he had been helping his brother elude authorities while on the lam. Those Democrats. 'You gotta love em or risk getting greased.'
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My only guess is he was sprinkled with “Hillary water” and is immune from US laws.
 
Uranium One, a fake controversy for the gullible.

'Man's got to know his limitations.'
 
Cordelier said:
Well, Rep. Trey Gowdy disagrees with you... here's a transcript from the Feb. 4 Face the Nation:
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An investigation in Russian election meddling, sure.
An investigation into Trump / Russian collusion, of which evidence hasn't materialized, not so much.

There is more collusion with the Russians in the web that surrounds the dossier, and it was the dossier which was the major justification for the FISA warrant and its 3 or 4 extensions. This is the rickety part, and its also the part that was the justification for the Trump / Russian collusion investigation.

In fact, it's Mueller's job to obscure that very web, the collusion with the Russians and protect the high US government officials in the middle of that web, but one might as well ask a kid to stick their thumb in an over flowing dike. It's starting to come out into the public light.
 
Cordelier said:
What "facts" are you referring to?

~I don't give a rat's ass about your point of view~
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Cordelier said:
Fair enough... provide me with your evidence against Mueller then.
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Instead of asking me that question, you should read this and other threads on the topic...investigate the links provided...do some research. The effort will do you good.
 
eohrnberger said:
An investigation in Russian election meddling, sure.
An investigation into Trump / Russian collusion, of which evidence hasn't materialized, not so much.

There is more collusion with the Russians in the web that surrounds the dossier, and it was the dossier which was the major justification for the FISA warrant and its 3 or 4 extensions. This is the rickety part, and its also the part that was the justification for the Trump / Russian collusion investigation.

In fact, it's Mueller's job to obscure that very web, the collusion with the Russians and protect the high US government officials in the middle of that web, but one might as well ask a kid to stick their thumb in an over flowing dike. It's starting to come out into the public light.
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Actually, you're incorrect.... here is Rosenstein's Order appointing the Special Counsel and laying out the scope of his investigation. Please note Paragraph (b)(i) - it is well within the scope of Mueller's mandate to investigate any links pointing to collusion between the Russians and the Trump Campaign.

As noted earlier, when I quoted from Trey Gowdy's Feb. 4 Face the Nation interview, the investigation goes well beyond the so-called Steele Dossier.
 
Mycroft said:
Instead of asking me that question, you should read this and other threads on the topic...investigate the links provided...do some research. The effort will do you good.
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I'm here right now, ready and willing to make a coherent case that cites primary source information. Why aren't you willing to do the same?
 
Cordelier said:
I'm here right now, ready and willing to make a coherent case that cites primary source information. Why aren't you willing to do the same?
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It has already been done in this and multiple threads.

Look, you are relatively new here. I don't think you've learned, yet, that it's a waste of time to repeat myself when multiple toms, dicks and marys pop up...each demanding to "see the evidence" that's already been presented by myself and others. I suggest you read the threads, do some research...get informed. Then we can talk.
 
Cordelier said:
Actually, you're incorrect.... here is Rosenstein's Order appointing the Special Counsel and laying out the scope of his investigation. Please note Paragraph (b)(i) - it is well within the scope of Mueller's mandate to investigate any links pointing to collusion between the Russians and the Trump Campaign.

As noted earlier, when I quoted from Trey Gowdy's Feb. 4 Face the Nation interview, the investigation goes well beyond the so-called Steele Dossier.
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The title of that Order:

"APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS"

Those notes from Ohr have been released to the public only recently, but the FBI, the DOJ and Mueller have been in possession of these notes for more than a year. They've all known about the Russian connection between Fusion GPS, Simpson, Steele, Bruce Ohr and his wife, Nellie...and the Obama FBI and DOJ.

The title of Rosenstein's Order to Mueller doesn't say anything about Trump. It only speaks of Russians, the election and related matters. Don't YOU think, given the factual evidence we now know the FBI/DOJ have had in their possession for more than a year, it would be important for Mueller to investigate just how far the Russian involvement with the FBI and DOJ actually went?

On the other hand, perhaps Mueller's OWN involvement with the Russians who are revealed in Ohr's notes is inducing him to back away from that stuff? Could there be some blackmail involved? Could Deripaska know something about Mueller, McCabe, the FBI...that Mueller, Wray or Rosenstein doesn't want the public to know?

Sure...this is speculation. But it's speculation that's based on much more solid factual evidence than any of the conspiracy theories concocted about Trump/Russia. And the evidence actually involves government agencies...not just a citizen.
 
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Cordelier said:
He was Acting US Attorney for Massachusetts for a few months in 1986 and 1987... but this was long before Albano was elected Mayor of Springfield and the FBI opened it's investigation on him. By the time that happened, Mueller was US Attorney for Northern California.
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The Wikipedia article said he moved to Boston in 1982. The Wikipedia article also said Albano objected to Mueller's appointment because of Mueller's active opposition to clemency for the innocent men during the time he was in Massachusetts. I see no conflict here. I have no respect for Herr Mueller and his cruel unrepentant immoral history.
 
chuckiechan said:
My only guess is he was sprinkled with “Hillary water” and is immune from US laws.
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We live in a world in which the ungodly often seem to literally get away with murder while the innocent are often brutally condemned by the wicked for things that were either minimal or did not happen. That is because Satan has a certain control and influence over much of what is cherished and exalted in the world, including 'kings' and 'princes' with low morals and character.

In the Bible Jacob's sons were down to earth people while Easau's sons referred to themselves as "Dukes."
 
late said:
Uranium One, a fake controversy for the gullible.

'Man's got to know his limitations.'
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What part of the Uranium One record is fake?

1. No company named Uranium One?
2. No deal made with Uranium One to buy controlling interest in U.S. uranium assets?
3. No $100 million donation to the Clinton Foundation?
4. No $500,000 speaker's fee to Bill Clinton for his Russian speech?
5. No knowledge or involvement in the purchasing agreement between Russia and Uranium One by the U.S. Government, including the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the Secretary of State, the FBI, and other government agencies and officials?

No. These are undisputed facts, unless you have proof otherwise.
 
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Cordelier said:
Actually, you're incorrect.... here is Rosenstein's Order appointing the Special Counsel and laying out the scope of his investigation. Please note Paragraph (b)(i) - it is well within the scope of Mueller's mandate to investigate any links pointing to collusion between the Russians and the Trump Campaign.

As noted earlier, when I quoted from Trey Gowdy's Feb. 4 Face the Nation interview, the investigation goes well beyond the so-called Steele Dossier.
Click to expand...

Odd that.

Investigations start with a crime, or some offense, and investigate to find evidence of that crime, or some offense and whom the perpetrator is.

Here, as you bring to light, the alleged perpetrator is defined, and the investigation is to find any incriminating evidence against them.

Seems to me that this is an example of what a witch hunt is.
 
Mycroft said:
The title of that Order:

"APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS"

Those notes from Ohr have been released to the public only recently, but the FBI, the DOJ and Mueller have been in possession of these notes for more than a year. They've all known about the Russian connection between Fusion GPS, Simpson, Steele, Bruce Ohr and his wife, Nellie...and the Obama FBI and DOJ.

The title of Rosenstein's Order to Mueller doesn't say anything about Trump. It only speaks of Russians, the election and related matters. Don't YOU think, given the factual evidence we now know the FBI/DOJ have had in their possession for more than a year, it would be important for Mueller to investigate just how far the Russian involvement with the FBI and DOJ actually went?

On the other hand, perhaps Mueller's OWN involvement with the Russians who are revealed in Ohr's notes is inducing him to back away from that stuff? Could there be some blackmail involved? Could Deripaska know something about Mueller, McCabe, the FBI...that Mueller, Wray or Rosenstein doesn't want the public to know?

Sure...this is speculation. But it's speculation that's based on much more solid factual evidence than any of the conspiracy theories concocted about Trump/Russia. And the evidence actually involves government agencies...not just a citizen.
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Okay, I'm going to correct you on a few points... first off, there is no "Obama FBI" or "Trump FBI" - there's only an FBI, period. Secondly, the FBI doesn't respond well to political pressure from whatever source. If an AG or a President tries to push it in one direction or another, it has a tendency to bite them in the ass PDQ.

Secondly, I'm not really sure what you think the "factual evidence we now know" amounts to, and I don't really think it does a lot of good to speculate. Here's what I do know... the Russians have been doing dezinformatsiya since Dzerzhinsky was in diapers. They've gotten pretty good at it over the years. So that being said, I don't put a whole lot of stock in breathless conspiracies whispered in back alleys. What matters now is ironclad back-to-basics fact-checking. You can't take whatever piece of so-called "evidence" falls into your lap and just give it instant credibility. I'm not saying to ignore evidence... but you do have to use common sense and restraint. Fusion GPS, the Ohr Notes or whatever else you think you know... ask yourself - how did you come by the information? Did you read it on a website? Well, then how did they come by the information? Chain of evidence is very important here, don't you think?
 
marke said:
Google: Probing Mueller: What Were His Roles in Boston Mafia Murders, Uranium One and Other FBI Scandals?
William F. Jasper, The New American, 22 March 2018

Mike Albano, former member of the Mas. Parole Board and former Mayor of Springfield, Mass. objected to Mueller's reappointment as FBI Director because of his botched handling of a famous case where 4 men were falsely charged with and found guilty of a murder the FBI knew in advance they did not commit. Here is a quote from the article:

The FBI and DOJ framed the four scapegoats, who were then sent to prison for the Deegan murder to protect Bulger, his henchman Steve "The Rifleman" Flemmi, and Flemmi's brother, Vincent "Jimmy" Flemmi.
"After Albano was elected mayor of Springfield in 1995, he soon found the FBI hot on his tail, investigating his administration for corruption," Cullen noted. "The FBI took down several people in his administration, and Albano is convinced that the FBI wasn't interested in public integrity as much as in publicly humiliating him because he dared to defy them."

In 2001, Albano was vindicated. The four men who had been wrongly convicted in the Deegan murder were exonerated. Two of them had already died in prison. As a result of this shocking government malfeasance, the two surviving victims and the families of the deceased were awarded compensation of $100 million -- courtesy of the taxpayers.

"Albano was apalled that, later that same year, Mueller was appointed FBI Director, because it was Mueller, first as an assistant U.S. attorney then as the acting U.S. attorney in Boston, who wrote letter to the parole and pardon boards throughout the 1980s opposing clemency for the four men framed by the FBI lies," writes the Boston Globe's Cullen. "Of course, Mueller was also in that position while Whitey Bulger was helping the FBI cart off his criminal competitors even as he buried bodies in shallow graves along the Neponset."


Whitey Bulger was not only a mass murdering thug protected by the FBI as an informant, but his brother, William Bulger, was a Democrat power boss, the longest president of the state senate and former President of the University of Massachusetts, a position he lost in disgrace when it was discovered he had been helping his brother elude authorities while on the lam. Those Democrats. 'You gotta love em or risk getting greased.'
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My God! Who put this man in charge of the Russia investigation?
 
marke said:
The Wikipedia article said he moved to Boston in 1982. The Wikipedia article also said Albano objected to Mueller's appointment because of Mueller's active opposition to clemency for the innocent men during the time he was in Massachusetts. I see no conflict here. I have no respect for Herr Mueller and his cruel unrepentant immoral history.
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Remind me again... when was Willie Horton released on weekend furlough?

It seems to me that the Republicans made a lot of hay about Massachusetts' lax parole standards in the 1980's.... so pardon me if it seems pretty disingenuous for you to turn around and attack a Federal Prosecutor who was trying to take them to task for that.
 
eohrnberger said:
Odd that.
Investigations start with a crime, or some offense, and investigate to find evidence of that crime, or some offense and whom the perpetrator is.
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Russian, criminal meddling (hacking, conspiracy, etc.) in the election was the FBI investigation.
Trump's erratic Russia behavior culminating with firing Comey, triggered concerns for the criminal act of obstructing that investigation, which resulted in special counsel...by Trump's own deputy AG.

Looks like crimes are central to every aspect of it. And we have the indictments to prove it.

Poor Trump supporters, can't outrun the law, despite being willing to tear down the institutions that keep us all free and safe. Burn it down...
 
Cordelier said:
Okay, I'm going to correct you on a few points... first off, there is no "Obama FBI" or "Trump FBI" - there's only an FBI, period. Secondly, the FBI doesn't respond well to political pressure from whatever source. If an AG or a President tries to push it in one direction or another, it has a tendency to bite them in the ass PDQ.
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There surely is an "Obama FBI", as well as an Obama DOJ, CIA, etc. These are agencies...during the Obama administration...that were run by his people. People who did as he directed. And believe me...Lynch, Comey, Brennan, etc...did whatever Obama wanted. They didn't oppose him one bit.

If you think otherwise, you are naive. But that's your problem. I don't care.

Secondly, I'm not really sure what you think the "factual evidence we now know" amounts to, and I don't really think it does a lot of good to speculate. Here's what I do know... the Russians have been doing dezinformatsiya since Dzerzhinsky was in diapers. They've gotten pretty good at it over the years. So that being said, I don't put a whole lot of stock in breathless conspiracies whispered in back alleys. What matters now is ironclad back-to-basics fact-checking. You can't take whatever piece of so-called "evidence" falls into your lap and just give it instant credibility. I'm not saying to ignore evidence... but you do have to use common sense and restraint. Fusion GPS, the Ohr Notes or whatever else you think you know... ask yourself - how did you come by the information? Did you read it on a website? Well, then how did they come by the information? Chain of evidence is very important here, don't you think?
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sigh...

I've repeatedly pointed you to evidence, yet you refuse to look at it. Again...that's your problem. I don't care.

If you want to remain ignorant, that's your choice.

I will give you one hint: http://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/40...exposing-what-fusion-gps-told-doj-about-trump

Beyond this...you are dismissed.
 
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