Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 46

Thread: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

  1. #21
    User
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lebanon Oregon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    133

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Does any of it really matter? We live in hyper-partisanship where the only goal of both parties is to not accomplish a damn thing other than having an agenda of stopping the other party. No one wins and the American people always lose. I would be impressed all to hell if one of the parties actually set a goal of accomplishing something in a bipartisan way and not having their only agenda being stopping the other party.
    Parties use strategies that tend to be seen as working to win and retain power and allegiance. When voters stop punishing compromise , bipartisanship and solution based platforms, while rewarding simplistic cliched dogwhistle rhetoric, they will get more of it in Congress. You vote in Demagogues, you get demagoguery

  2. #22
    Advisor Cordelier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    531

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    I agree with most of this. What matters in impeachment that the favorability approval numbers within his own party are crucial. As long as the GOP Congress have real reason to fear Trump, he will not be removed.

    I wonder if we overworry the legal case for impeachment, rather than the competence case. Yes its a harder murier sell, but I absolutely believe there is plenty of precedent for impeachment of federal officers like Cabinent officers or judges over competence or moral turpitude questions both here and in England based on the exact same phrase as the founders shoved in the Constitution. That is why they added 'misdemeanors'! If the misdemeanors or crimes were charged against high officials like judges, counselors or other public servants, they were by definition 'high' ones. That adjective did not originally reflect severity of the behavior so much as the impact of it on the nation.
    If the Republicans lose the House. I think you'll see him lose a lot of support within his own party... if they somehow lose the Senate as well, I think you'll see it collapse. I think at that point you'll see him talking more and more about forming his own party and catering to the 20% or so of the population who are the "true believers".

    As for the competence argument, I'd suggest that there's huge difference between impeaching a Judge or a Cabinet Member and impeaching the President of the United States. It shouldn't be easy to overthrow a democratically elected President, no matter how incompetent they may be... it should be and is the hardest task possible. The legal and ethical evidence against the President must be iron-clad, because you're not just acting against the man himself, but you're also acting against the office. To quote Ralph Waldo Emerson, "When you strike at a king, you must kill him." ... there is no room for error here. If you strike when the President's approval rating is at 30-40%, you're just going to alienate the Republicans you might have swung over to your side - they're going to reflexively defend the President, and then it becomes partisan and the Democrats lose their legitimacy. If you get his approval rating down to 20-25% by a constant drumbeat of evidence and argument, then you've reached a critical mass of support among Republicans who aren't the true believers, and it becomes a truly bipartisan effort. Like I said before, watch Jim Sensenbrenner. He's your bell-weather. If he turns against the President, then the Republican Party is ready to turn against him.

  3. #23
    Heading North
    Roadvirus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,935

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    I have a $100 that says the Dems, if they do win the House back, will whiz it down their leg and fail miserably.

  4. #24
    Sage
    Moderate Right's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Kentucky
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    26,166

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    Parties use strategies that tend to be seen as working to win and retain power and allegiance. When voters stop punishing compromise , bipartisanship and solution based platforms, while rewarding simplistic cliched dogwhistle rhetoric, they will get more of it in Congress. You vote in Demagogues, you get demagoguery
    The parties have been in gridlock for many years now. What's the point of having a government at all?

  5. #25
    Sage
    chuckiechan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    California Caliphate
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,115

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by pilot16 View Post
    Here is the dilemma. In order for dems to win the House, they need to get a lot of republican votes in red and purple states. Which is possible in the era of Trump. But do they keep them? If a Jeff Flake primaries Trump in 2020 and should win, its likely they will all go back to voting republican. We have seen this over and over. Bill Clinton won with some republican votes as did Barack Obama. But then the republicans went "back home" and voted for their own. So democrats have to ask themselves a question, do we want to keep these voters? Or can we afford to let them go back to the GOP next election? They risk alienating their own party if they stay in the center or go right. But they also risk losing these center right independents and republicans if they go left.
    Bill Clinton won due to a third part conservative Ross Perot.
    One of these days we are going to wake up to find our economic advantage is gone.
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence everywhere but here
    Trump is here because we made an existential bad bargain with China.
    American students want to be "happy". Chinese students want to rule the world.

  6. #26
    Guru
    MrPeanut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Huntington, WV
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    3,785

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    I have a $100 that says the Dems, if they do win the House back, will whiz it down their leg and fail miserably.
    That's a pretty safe bet.

  7. #27
    User
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lebanon Oregon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    133

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    I have a $100 that says the Dems, if they do win the House back, will whiz it down their leg and fail miserably.
    I have $200.00 that says you won't pay regardless because 'fail miserably' will remain a term of partisan art, completely undefined and devoid of objective meaning that will stay that way so you can save your money.

  8. #28
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:11 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    33,181

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The Senate is where it's at, yo.
    That went out the window with popular election.
    “The concept that government may restrict the speech of some elements of our society in order to enhance the relative voice of others is wholly foreign to the First Amendment.”

  9. #29
    User
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lebanon Oregon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    133

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The parties have been in gridlock for many years now. What's the point of having a government at all?
    government still functions sufficiently to perform necessary services but it does stagnate. Its up to the institutions of government , to reform processes to facilitate less gridlock regardless of the party interests. that is admittedly tricky to do.

  10. #30
    Advisor Cordelier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    531

    Re: What do we Dems do, once we win the House?

    Quote Originally Posted by btthegreat View Post
    government still functions sufficiently to perform necessary services but it does stagnate. Its up to the institutions of government , to reform processes to facilitate less gridlock regardless of the party interests. that is admittedly tricky to do.
    You talk about gridlock like it's a bad thing. It's not. Being President isn't supposed to be an easy job... but the ones who are worth their salt find ways to get their agenda passed, even when Congress is controlled by the other party. Reagan did it. So did Clinton. On the other end of the spectrum, there are Presidents like Carter and Trump who can't seem to make much headway even when their party controls Congress. Want to end gridlock? Try electing a President who actually knows what they're doing.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •