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Would Trump have won without the Russians?

KevinKohler said:
Have you calmed down?


If major media outlets (faces on TV we the people trust to bring us news, facts, and truth) are constantly hinting at or outright calling his presidency illegitimate, is he not to address any of that?
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If Trump desires to demonstrate some maturity, if he actually knows what that means, then he would STFU about any election ........
 
hanger4 said:
Making fun of your incidence of ignoring salient facts is now oxymoronic. Cool
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That makes no sense and is rather juvenile since it was YOU who used an oxymoron like "basically ignored" when you have been repeatedly schooled and corrected on your previous misuse of that term.
 
haymarket said:
That makes no sense and is rather juvenile since it was YOU who used an oxymoron like "basically ignored" when you have been repeatedly schooled and corrected on your previous misuse of that term.
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What part of "making of you" didn't you understand Mr. Emglish Professor ??
 
hanger4 said:
What part of "making of you" didn't you understand Mr. Emglish Professor ??
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You are writing nonsense.

You have already been thoroughly schooled and corrected on your oxymoron BASICALLY IGNORED. But now you double down and attempt to use it again.
 
Some of the key states were close enough that it is conceivable propaganda could have an impact. With that being said I don't think she would've definitely won without Russian interference. She was a bad candidate with a bad team.
 
cuban smokes said:
If Trump desires to demonstrate some maturity, if he actually knows what that means, then he would STFU about any election ........
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And just let the media proceed with its agenda unopposed?
 
CriticalThought said:
No sense beating around the bush. I am not asking if Trump's campaign colluded, I am asking if the leaks that Russia provided and the social media propaganda Russia generated were enough to sway some voters to stay home and others to turn out in a significant enough way to tip the election in Trump's favor.
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Lol nope. There's no way without Vlad's helping hand that Trump pulls it out
 
haymarket said:
You are writing nonsense.

You have already been thoroughly schooled and corrected on your oxymoron BASICALLY IGNORED. But now you double down and attempt to use it again.
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You're ignoring salient fact via English Professor diversion.

HRC lost because of HRC's bad decision making, the hidden email server being a biggly one.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Lol nope. There's no way without Vlad's helping hand that Trump pulls it out
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You'd have point if HRC as SoS had used a state dot gov email and not ignore the swing states but she did, so you don't.
 
LowDown said:
No.

Even Howdy Doody could have beaten Hillary.
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Hillary had most of the media and a fair number of GOP regulars supporting her and she still lost. She was an awful candidate and worse campaigner. She proved that in 2008. this Russian nonsense is just that-sour grapes by Hillary fan club members who cannot handle that she lost
 
hanger4 said:
You're ignoring salient fact via English Professor diversion.

HRC lost because of HRC's bad decision making, the hidden email server being a biggly one.
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Clinton lost for many reasons. Bad decisions in the campaign was one of them.

Others were the Russian attack on our system which aided Trump and the Comey actions which violated long standing protocols.
 
haymarket said:
Clinton lost for many reasons. Bad decisions in the campaign was one of them.

Others were the Russian attack on our system which aided Trump and the Comey actions which violated long standing protocols.
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Doesn't matter how many times you say it "Comey's actions" are still due to HRC's bad decisions. No hidden server, no investigation, No Comey.
 
hanger4 said:
Doesn't matter how many times you say it "Comey's actions" are still due to HRC's bad decisions. No hidden server, no investigation, No Comey.
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Can you explain to me how your own mind works and your own brain cannot hold multiple reasons for Clintons loss?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
She took the whole month of Sep off except for some fundraising/partying, clearly indicating either that she was not physically up to the grind or alternatively that she had it in the bag....either way that worked against her biggly.

Hillary was stupid, as we all know now.

But we gotta talk about Russia!
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But the Russians!!! LOL
 
Considering that the Russians have been meddling in our elections(lightly) for decades, you should be asking whether Obama would've won twice without their meddling. Especially when you remember this particular scandal(which was largely ignored and quickly covered up by the media). Putin wanted OUR defensive missile shield in eastern Europe weakened or removed. So, for reasons unknown, he PROMISED Putin that he would give him exactly what He wanted!

Here, he is CAUGHT RED HANDED, telling Russian President Medvedev, "tell him(Putin) that this is my last election. After I'm reelected, I'll have more 'flexibility'".: https://youtu.be/0mgQaFlo_p8
 
jimbo said:
Many non Hillary voters believed that Hillary's problem is/was over medication at the ABC store. Many still do.
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Well, people without a drinking problem DON'T wander around in the woods alone with hot sauce and white wine!
 
Perotista said:
Exactly, Hillary let Trump both out work her and out campaign her. The finally tally was 116 campaign visits/stops for Trump between 1 Sep thru 8 Nov to 71 for Hillary. Some of those 71 were no more than fund raisers in deep blue California and New York. There is/was no other democrat I can think of, alive or dead that would have allowed their presidential opponent to out work and out campaign them the way Hillary did.

One almost has to assume Hillary thought the election was in the bag for her. She took getting elected for granted. She thought she didn't have to work at it. The election was gift wrapped for her much like the jury rigged Democratic primaries were. She was wrong.
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And, the only way that she could draw a crowd was to have JZ and Bouncy by her side!
 
Acadia said:
Or...Trump was very good on the campaign trail and managed to pierce the Blue Wall which Hillary either took for granted or ignored.
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She did both...she spent much more time with celebrities than she did with every day American citizens.
 
itsforthekids said:
She did both...she spent much more time with celebrities than she did with every day American citizens.
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I think it's ironic that Trump will get more mileage out of Kim Kardashians "followers" than Hillary did.
 
Acadia said:
I think it's ironic that Trump will get more mileage out of Kim Kardashians "followers" than Hillary did.
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LOL. He's very pragmatic...always has been. He's not a political animal which is why he is constantly bashed for "not being presidential!"
 
haymarket said:
Can you explain to me how your own mind works and your own brain cannot hold multiple reasons for Clintons loss?
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1) HRC's hidden email server and all that entails.

2) The Clinton Campaign basically ignoring the swing states.

3) Her decision in 08 to leave the Senate to serve in President Barack Obama’s cabinet. Had she stayed and run as a active member of Congress, she would most likely be president now.

4) Her Libya policy

5) Her Syria policy
 
itsforthekids said:
But the Russians!!! LOL
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The most obvious point in this whole discussion, is that OUR NEWS MEDIA should have been reporting ALL the corruption and 'collusion' regarding Hillary and her literal takeover of the DNC, and subsequently MILITARIZING THE DNC, to TAKE DOWN BERNIE, or ANY other democrat competitor to her campaign!

The media SHOULD have been reporting the 35,000+ emails that she deliberately had wiped from her server, just after being ordered to turn over her COVERT PERSONAL SERVER.

The media SHOULD have been reporting about the fact that Hillary testified that she only ever used 1 mobile device, despite the fact that it was later proven that she had actually used 18 mobile devices(13 smartphones/5 tablets)! She had ALL of them thoroughly destroyed, by her staffers, using hammers.

CNN and other 'news outlets' were found to have conspired with the Hillary campaign to allow her to dictate which questions she was to be asked, before the events! That gave her aides time to 'develop' the best answers for the questions beforehand, AND it ensured that she was mostly able to prevent being asked questions regarding issues that would have been 'problematic' for her!

^That's only part of the corruption regarding Hillary, ALL of which SHOULD have been reported by the media, before the election, with the same zeal the media used to demonize Trump!
 
hanger4 said:
1) HRC's hidden email server and all that entails.

2) The Clinton Campaign basically ignoring the swing states.

3) Her decision in 08 to leave the Senate to serve in President Barack Obama’s cabinet. Had she stayed and run as a active member of Congress, she would most likely be president now.

4) Her Libya policy

5) Her Syria policy
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Again with the oxymoron that you have already been schooled and correct on. There is no such thing as BASICALLY IGNORED. Clinton did not IGNORE the swing states and campaigned in them and spent resources in them.

A question for you, if my brain is developed enough to accept that Clinton lost for a variety of reasons including her own campaign decisions, t he Comey actions and the Russian interference and its weaponization by Trump - why is your brain so structured that it cannot accept multiple reasons including Comey and Russia?
 
itsforthekids said:
And, the only way that she could draw a crowd was to have JZ and Bouncy by her side!
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Where Hillary lost the election was with the enthusiasm/upset gap among independents.
Independents enthusiastic for Clinton 9%, enthusiastic for Trump 23%
Independents satisfied but not enthusiastic for Clinton 16%, satisfied but not enthusiastic for Trump 15%
Independents dissatisfied but not upset about Clinton's nomination 16%, dissatisfied but not upset about Trump's nomination 15%
Independents upset with Clinton nomination 57%, upset with Trump's nomination 43%

Questions 18 and 19

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l37rosbwjp/econTabReport_lv.pdf

As you see there was a huge gap in favor of Trump with independents enthusiastic 23-9 over Hillary. Also a huge gap in those upset over Hillary's nomination by the Democrats over those upset by Trump's nomination by the Republicans 57-43%. No wonder Trump won the independent vote.

Throw in those independents who viewed Hillary negative or unfavorable 70% which included 57% who viewed Hillary very unfavorable or negative to how negative independents viewed Trump. 57 total unfavorable with 46% very unfavorable. Questions 10 and 11.

Bottom line, Trump wins the independent/non-affiliated vote and thus the White House.
 
haymarket said:
Again with the oxymoron that you have already been schooled and correct on. There is no such thing as BASICALLY IGNORED. Clinton did not IGNORE the swing states and campaigned in them and spent resources in them.

A question for you, if my brain is developed enough to accept that Clinton lost for a variety of reasons including her own campaign decisions, t he Comey actions and the Russian interference and its weaponization by Trump - why is your brain so structured that it cannot accept multiple reasons including Comey and Russia?
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Because there's not a shred of evidence that Trump or his campaign had anything to do with any of that.
 
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