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If ICE must be abolished, I guess police departments must go to! {Sarcasm Alert}

Mycroft said:
LOL!!

Yeah. Okay. Hyperbole noted...and dismissed.
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Sorry but it is actually wiser, cheaper and more effective if we project an expression of care via foreign aid to these countries.
And it results in stable commodities markets, and stable governments. We might not always be fans of those governments but if they're stable, then what the heck. Sure beats the Hell out of allowing the cartels to take control of them.

This word you use, "hyperbole". I do not think it means what you think it means.
And I'm just glad there weren't enough of you around back in the 1930's and 40's to keep that kind of mindset going when it was Jewish refugees SEEKING ASYLUM in America.

YOU'RE the one who is dismissed.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Sorry but it is actually wiser, cheaper and more effective if we project an expression of care via foreign aid to these countries.
And it results in stable commodities markets, and stable governments. We might not always be fans of those governments but if they're stable, then what the heck. Sure beats the Hell out of allowing the cartels to take control of them.

This word you use, "hyperbole". I do not think it means what you think it means.
And I'm just glad there weren't enough of you around back in the 1930's and 40's to keep that kind of mindset going when it was Jewish refugees SEEKING ASYLUM in America.

YOU'RE the one who is dismissed.
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We are pushing a hundred years since the 30s and 40s. Nowadays foreign aid is better known as how I got rich off the stupid American taxpayers.

Anyway...since we are both dismissed...moving on.
 
Mycroft said:
Perhaps those asylum seekers could appeal to the Mexican government for safety? Perhaps the Mexican government can clean up those violent parts of Mexico? Why is it the US's fault what happens to them in Mexico?

For that matter, perhaps those people could appeal to the governments of their own countries to fix the conditions that supposedly prompted them to leave. Or should the US also be responsible for the crime in every country in this part of the world?
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Simple. Anything bad happens to illegal immigrants in Mexico becomes OUR fault for one reason. We are a predominantly Caucasian country. Period. If both sides were white, or both sides Latino, the responsibility for injury or death would be very different. This really isn't about accuracy or reasonable blame and personal responsibility. As soon as you have groups in one side that are deemed a 'protected victim group', and caucasians on the other side, it's pretty easy to see who will be blamed by dems and leftist elites, due entirely to their reckless, toxic strategy of identity politics and intersectionality.

You can pretty much sum up every question as to who is the victim and who is the oppressor, simply by using modern leftist intersectionality tactics. Any time there is a white person involved, it will pretty much be automatic that the blame will be squarely laid at the white person's feet. Regardless of actual facts. One things for sure, the illegal immigrants will NEVER be blamed for ANY negative situation, even when it should be clear to everyone that they put themselves in that situation.... It will perpetuate failure, victimization and hate, if entire groups of people are taught that they are never to be held responsible for their own actions. But that very fact is VERY beneficial to democrats politically.
 
ModerationNow! said:
Simple. Anything bad happens to illegal immigrants in Mexico becomes OUR fault for one reason. We are a predominantly Caucasian country. Period. If both sides were white, or both sides Latino, the responsibility for injury or death would be very different. This really isn't about accuracy or reasonable blame and personal responsibility. As soon as you have groups in one side that are deemed a 'protected victim group', and caucasians on the other side, it's pretty easy to see who will be blamed by dems and leftist elites, due entirely to their reckless, toxic strategy of identity politics and intersectionality.

You can pretty much sum up every question as to who is the victim and who is the oppressor, simply by using modern leftist intersectionality tactics. Any time there is a white person involved, it will pretty much be automatic that the blame will be squarely laid at the white person's feet. Regardless of actual facts. One things for sure, the illegal immigrants will NEVER be blamed for ANY negative situation, even when it should be clear to everyone that they put themselves in that situation.... It will perpetuate failure, victimization and hate, if entire groups of people are taught that they are never to be held responsible for their own actions. But that very fact is VERY beneficial to democrats politically.
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More bull****, Mexico is predominantly caucasian. Did you forget that the Spaniards came over many moons ago?

Also:

While the majority of European immigration to Mexico has been Spanish with the first wave starting with the colonization of America and the last one being a consequence of the Spanish Civil War of 1937, immigrants from other European countries have arrived to Mexico as well: during the Second Mexican Empire the immigration was mostly French, and during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries migrants mainly from Italy, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Germany followed. Additionally small numbers of White Americans, Croats, Armenians, Greeks, Poles, Romanians, Russians and Ashkenazi Jews came.
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Ice will never be abolished because I could call for the democratic party to be abolished but, will that happen? Of course not because I'm taking people's rights away to vote. I think that this is a hilarious and, basically most depressing thing. it's pretty interesting how the democratic party would automatically say that an immigrant is a citizen automatically under daca. This question is for liberals, Do you lock your doors and, windows at night? If you do should you be shaming yourself if you are a democrat because you are putting a security barrier between you and the outside world?
 
Mycroft said:
I'd rather de-incentivize them from even thinking of coming to the US.
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Im with ya, I don't understand how people believe its ok to use our tax money to give to other countries to make them do what they should have been doing in the first place, or give to other countries governments and companies to treat their people better. That's a ransom scam to say give us money or else we will send our people as immigrants to your country.
 
jdog21 said:
Im with ya, I don't understand how people believe its ok to use our tax money to give to other countries to make them do what they should have been doing in the first place, or give to other countries governments and companies to treat their people better. That's a ransom scam to say give us money or else we will send our people as immigrants to your country.
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Fortunately, we now have a President who won't play that game.
 
calamity said:
ICE is a Patriot Act invention. We did fine without it for 226 years
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We "did fine" with the United States Customs Service, the criminal investigative, detention and deportation resources of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the Federal Protective Service. They were combined to create ICE.

Same jobs, different name.
 
19 ICE agents call to abolish agency in letter to Homeland Security head Kirstjen Nielsen

As the fight to abolish U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) gains ground, 19 high-profile ICE agents and leaders have signed a letter asking Homeland Security head Kirstjen Nielsen to eliminate the agency.

The letter, first shared by The Texas Observer, explained that certain ICE agents “have been perceived as targeting undocumented aliens, instead of the transnational criminal organizations that facilitate cross border crimes impacting our communities and national security,” and that as a result, their work has been inhibited.

The agents recommend that Homeland Security dismiss the departments of ICE charged with deporting most undocumented immigrants and instead focus on their Homeland Security Investigations team, which fights cybercrime, drug smuggling and human trafficking.

....
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ModerationNow! said:
According to a growing number of progressive activists, journalists & democrats, ICE must be abolished! That's because of the temporary child separation. After all, these parents were SO concerned with the welfare of their young kids, that they marched them across a continent and a huge desert, so as to use them as "amnesty pawns", to help guarantee the ability to jump the line over all those 'chumps' trying to immigrate legitimately.

But once they got here, they failed to do the ONE thing that would've guaranteed they would've stayed together and NOT been arrested, which was simply to walk to a border station and ask for asylum. Nope.... It makes more sense to take even more risks with your kids, and walk across even more desert! However, some were arrested, and the evil border guards failed to just toss ALL the kids in a cell with ALL the adults, which is obviously what happens to American parents who are sent to jail or prison, their kids go to prison with them!! Lol.

So, now that ICE have proven they don't care more for foreign nationals than they do for Americans(unlike democrats, who obviously care more for illegal immigrants), they MUST be abolished ASAP, so that our borders can be wide open for uncontrolled, mass illegal immigration! Including gangs, drug cartels etc.

But according to most dems and leftist elites, there's an even bigger group of monsters, who are clearly more racist. Just ask David Hogg, who recently complained about "hundreds of racist police wandering the halls of Parkland high, harassing minorities". Why, it's hard to contemplate the enormous number of unarmed blacks killed last year, but the number must be huge(its 19). If they are to be consistent, then surely all the police depts MUST GO!!
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How on earth did the U.S. survive in the lawless era that was before 2003 when ICE was established?
 
minnie616 said:
Mexico is not safe for asylum seekers from Central America.

March 2018

Mexico: Still Not Safe for Refugees and Migrants

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/mexico-still-not-safe-refugees-and-migrants
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^^^Yet another reason to drag your minor child across a continent(or worse yet, sending them ALONE) to avoid immigrating legally, and once again, we certainly can't criticize these people for such irresponsible decision making. Nor can we criticize the globalist leftist organizations that toil endlessly to encourage illegal immigration.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Not an option...that's what's happening.
It's a refugee crisis, but instead we're now pronouncing any and all to be the same.
Refugees aren't "illegal aliens", they're refugees but as far as this administration is concerned there's no difference whatsoever.
And with illegal aliens the obvious response is indeed incarceration but since Mexican illegal immigration has actually been in the negative for some time, all that apparatus would be sitting idle if we were only processing refugees.
By the way, "processing" does not automatically mean "admitting" and sometimes detention is indicated but it is at best, temporary under normal circumstances.
If the refugee can't pass the process, they're sent away. If they have a criminal background, they get to be guests of the corrections system till we figure out what else we can do with them.

But in any case, prison isn't the option, it is the actual thing happening, it's a border to prison pipeline, a steady supply of inmates that private corrections can use to slurp up more taxpayer dollars, and it ain't cheap.

So I ask you, which do you think costs more, and costs more for a LONGER period of time:

A fully functioning border to prison pipeline operated by for profit private corrections at taxpayer expense,
or a mini "Marshall Plan" style foreign aid package that comes with specific conditions, carrots and sticks, applied to the ravaged country?
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I don't buy into that "illegal immigration is in the negative" propaganda. Its obviously in the best interest of democrats and open borders political organizations to convince the American people that illegal immigrants are leaving faster than coming. We shouldn't trust them, because they've been deceptive about almost every other stat related to illegal immigration.

I think it's likely that the total number of illegal immigrants in the US are at least double the "11 million" that everyone has claimed for like 15 years now! Even when illegal immigration was at crisis levels in the 2000-2007 timeframe, and immigration officials estimated as many as 2+ million per year were making it here, the illegal immigration supporters were STILL saying 11 million every year pretty much!
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
So, maybe twenty billion over ten years then?

NICARAGUA

Statistics
Public debt $5.228 billion (31 December 2012) 70.5 of GDP (2011 est.)

So let's be really pessimistic and gloomy and assume that it's now around $8 Bn.
But five billion could knock out so much of their total debt that quality of life might conceivably spike upwards for the average citizen, provided we could keep handles on seeing to it that the money is actually being spent on public services and goods, and jobs.

We're apparently proud of being able to monitor nuclear weapons production in other countries, so I daresay it's probably possible to keep an eye on how a tinpot hellhole like Nicaragua is handling a foreign aid package. This isn't the 1950's anymore, there are ways for banks to watch this stuff more so than sixty years ago. It will never be perfect and there will be some skimming, as per usual but a debt forgiveness package is going to lift all boats over there, and it will most likely be much cheaper.
The only part that would give anybody the sadz is those poor put upon corrections companies CEO's won't get to make themselves rich over here.

I could be totally wrong on this but I'm still waiting for an indication that we're spending all this money in a much wiser fashion and so far I ain't seein' diddly squat. I'm just seeing GeoCorp, CCA and a couple of other prison corps growing fat, and another entrenched and out of control government agency digging in their heels to keep a federal jobs program growing at record rates.

Hmmmm, I thought conservatives didn't like that kind of thing. Oh wait, they only hate it when it's something like a post office or a VA, or public schools. :(
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When has anyone ever been able to grant tons of money to evil despotic regimes, while successfully ensuring that they actually spend it to help their citizens, as opposed to pocketing it or using it to arm their military?
 
ModerationNow! said:
I don't buy into that "illegal immigration is in the negative" propaganda. Its obviously in the best interest of democrats and open borders political organizations to convince the American people that illegal immigrants are leaving faster than coming. We shouldn't trust them, because they've been deceptive about almost every other stat related to illegal immigration.

I think it's likely that the total number of illegal immigrants in the US are at least double the "11 million" that everyone has claimed for like 15 years now! Even when illegal immigration was at crisis levels in the 2000-2007 timeframe, and immigration officials estimated as many as 2+ million per year were making it here, the illegal immigration supporters were STILL saying 11 million every year pretty much!
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You're entitled to your own opinion but not "your own facts".
All you have to do is look it up using "net illegal immigration to US from Mexico is negative" or similar search terms.
It's not a belief, it's a documented fact.

The reason border crossings spiked isn't because of Mexicans hopping the border for jobs, it's refugees seeking asylum from war torn Central American countries like Guatemala, (which also had a major eruption, too) Honduras and El Salvador, and to a lesser extent, Nicaragua.
The worst affected of the four is El Salvador.

If you're going to resort to just making numbers up in your head because "you think it's likely" and because you think everyone but Sean Hannity is "FAKE NOOZ" then there's nothing more to talk about with you, and you're not even interested in addressing an issue at all.

Go peddle your confirmation bias somewhere else.
 
ModerationNow! said:
When has anyone ever been able to grant tons of money to evil despotic regimes, while successfully ensuring that they actually spend it to help their citizens, as opposed to pocketing it or using it to arm their military?
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You know what? The instances where it's been most effective have actually been when the IMF has done it, and if they're able to make sure their attached strings are enforced.
The trouble is, IMF generally gets away with bypassing parliaments and the democratic process altogether, much to the dismay and anger of the populace because they tend to demand instant and unitary executive action, and they get it.
And that's been the source of many of the civil insurgencies that result. People in even marginally democratic nations tend to not like it so much when their entire social contract, schools, post offices, public transport, medical, old age pensions and infrastructure get either privatized, taken away altogether or both. Then those regimes have to RESORT to arming the military to do the bidding of the IMF.
So if you want to point fingers, start there.

If you actually KNEW some history and current events, you'd know this stuff. I'd wager that you don't even know the first thing about the IMF.
 
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