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Obama – Just Too Good for Us

Skeptic Bob said:
In most, but not all, areas Obama was superior to Trump as POTUS but still a disappointment. GWB destroyed the America that I always loved. I figured Obama would turn back the clock on most of those errors but he just continued down the path W put us on. Trump is now doing his own flavor of damage to the American psyche. I have pretty much lost hope on any President returning us to the pre-9-11 days.
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I would really like to know what you think he did wrong. Can you offer any specifics on exactly what you're disappointed about?
 
Vern said:
I would really like to know what you think he did wrong. Can you offer any specifics on exactly what you're disappointed about?
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The criteria I judge a President by are a bit different than I think most do. For example, I rarely give blame or credit to a President for the economy. The same goes for credit/blame for legislation that Congress is primarily responsible for.

Most of how I judge a President is in their role as Commander-in-Chief as that is an area in which they have virtually unchecked power. Obama got us into more unnecessary military conflicts, drastically increased the drone program, the use of signature strikes, and he fully embraced the Patriot Act despite him warning of its dangers.

Now, I am not going to try and convince you of my position on this. My personal views of Obama’s performance are largely based on my experience. I spent most of GWB’s and the entirety of Obama’s presidency overseas as a member of the intelligence community. I participated in carrying out the less public side of their foreign policy and saw first hand the results. I am incredibly bitter over a particular incident that I was manipulated into by the Obama administration that I will never forgive his administration for. But that is anecdotal information that would be illegal for me to share and, frankly, you would have no reason to believe if I told you. But it is a big part of why I personally am not a fan of Obama’s presidency even though I enthusiastically voted for him...the first time.

I fully understand why people living more normal lives back here at home had a very positive impression of his presidency and I don’t begrudge them that one bit.
 
bubbabgone said:
"Hours after the globe-rattling election of a man whom Barack Obama has total disdain for, a toon who would take a chain saw to the former president’s legacy on policy and decency, Obama sent a message to his adviser Ben Rhodes: “There are more stars in the sky than grains of sand on the earth.”

Perhaps Obama should have used a different line with a celestial theme by Shakespeare: “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.” "​

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/02/opinion/sunday/obama-ben-rhodes-world-as-it-is.html

Maureen Dowd is a pisser. This isn't a long piece but she's always a good read.

But there's one thing I have to take issue with. She said ...
"... He got tangled in a cat’s cradle on the twin F.B.I. investigations into Hillary’s emails and Russian meddling; in retrospect, he probably should have been more transparent about both."
Speaking for myself, I've never bought his smooth Denzel act so, for me, he has always been pretty transparent personally and as President.
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I doubt there is a greater detractor of Obama than I. I never counted, but was accused of "hate" toward Obama hundreds of times, almost as much as the Trump losers have so far.

History is going to be very kind to Obama, basically because he was bracketed by two of the most inept presidents in history. Fair or not, presidents usually get judged on one or two major disasters, Carter was a joke but his "legacy" was the hostage crisis where his plan was to hope the Canadians could bail him out.

Obama will be judged by Obamacare, and in the short term how the bill was crafted (poorly) and rolled out (dishonestly). He will be hacked for the economic condition he inherited and will suffer exaggerations on how bad it was....that's every president anyway.

Trump?

No true history of Trump can ignore the most significant point he has made to date, that he is corrupt, childish and mean. What happens to the economy or his petty wars will be covered of course, but his "legacy" as it is unfolding will be to have divided the US more than any external enemy ever could.

Yeah, the economy is going to get vicious all over the world at the single digit IQ stable genius gets his publicity fix destroying every trade agreement, but that will pale in comparison to the civil war he will bring
 
Cardinal said:
Having to live through eight years of basically zero scandal was the worst. I'm certainly glad those dystopian times are over.
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Executive Branch
Katherine Archuleta, Director of the Office of Personnel Management, resigned on July 10, 2015, after cyberintrusions allowed the theft of data concerning 22 million people, some of whom had applied for sensitive security clearances.[39]
Hillary Clinton email controversy – Throughout her tenure as Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton (D) used an unsecured private server to send and receive personal and classified material. The FBI investigation found that 110 messages contained information that was classified at the time it was sent. Her aides subsequently deleted about 31,000 emails from the server that Clinton regarded as personal correspondence.[40] Director of the FBI James Comey (R) found no evidence to suggest Clinton or her staff deleted these emails in an attempt to conceal them. He also found too little evidence to charge her with any crime.[41]
Veterans Health Administration scandal of 2014 – Officials in the Phoenix, VA hospital lied about how long the wait times were for veterans to see a doctor.[42][43][44] The newly selected Secretary of Veterans Affairs, General Eric Shinseki, voluntarily resigned.[45]
2013 IRS scandal – IRS admitted to inappropriate investigation of conservative political groups associated with the Tea Party that may not have met the criteria for certain tax exemptions.[46] Later, it was found that the IRS investigated groups with the label "progressives" as well.[47][48][49][50][51] The president demanded and accepted the resignation of Steven T. Miller, Acting Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service. Other actions arising from the scandal included:
Lois Lerner, head of the IRS Office of Exempt Organizations, stated she had not done anything wrong and then took the Fifth before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.[52] She retired in 2013 after an internal investigation found that she neglected her duties and was going to call for her ouster.[53]
Joseph H. Grant, commissioner of the IRS Tax-exempt and Government Entities division, resigned on May 16, 2013.[54]
ATF gunwalking scandal – Attorney General Eric Holder (D) was held in Contempt of Congress after refusing to release all documents which the House of Representatives had demanded concerning the Fast and Furious gun walking operation. He did not resign and no charges were brought.(2012)[55]
Terence Flynn (R) an appointee of Barack Obama to the National Labor Relations Board, resigned in May 2012 after being accused of serious ethical violations by leaking information to the National Association of Manufacturers.[56]
Martha N. Johnson (D) head of the General Services Administration, fired two top GSA officials and then resigned herself after it was revealed that $822,000 had been spent in Las Vegas on a four-day training conference for 300 GSA employees. (2010)[57][58][59][60]
Petraeus scandal - On November 9, 2012, David Petraeus resigned as Director of the CIA after admitting having a sexual relationship with his biographer. On April 23, 2015, Petraeus pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of mishandling classified materials. He was given a two-year probationary period and a fine of $100,000.[61]
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???????
 
eohrnberger said:
The fundamental change, as instituted, has left the nation divided along tribal lines, with overheated political rhetoric, , race relations much worse than in 50 years, an on going culture war, ever increasing government interference and intervention in people's lives and freedoms, and a morass of excessive PC stupidity being promoted to be some sort of utopian public policy.

Hard to find anything good in any of that. Granted, Trump is no prize, but Obama's fundamental change of the US is even less of a prize.

Obama was most certainly NOT 'too good for the US'.

We can see this in what's being revealed about his administration's weaponization of the government and abuse of government power against his political opposition.

Sorry, but Obama's has taken the 'worst president' award from Carter.
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THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS ARE MERELY MY OWN and not to be taken personally:
(meaning...some guy with a few days off, clunking on a keyboard trying to stay cool in his man cave)

I still think the WORST title ever needs to go to several other more qualified candidates.
If you mean in recent history, Bush 43 still has him beat by getting us into the Iraq war for no reason at all other than his own vanity.
Look how many lives globally that has cost everyone.
ISIS casualties were a direct result of the Iraq War as ISIS would have been stomped down by Saddam had he still been in power.

My candidates are;

1. Jackson. Though he was the only Prez to pay off the national debt, he also ingored the SCOTUS ruling and engaged the Trail of Tears because he hated the "injuns" only slighly less than he hated the British. He was as close to a dictator as we have ever come. Contrary to some NeverTrumpers.

2. Grant. Though he had high personal integrity, his administration was one of the most corrupt in US history. he even went broke trying to pay off some of the people his cronies screwed. When Sam Clemons found him in that pathetic state he donated proceeds from some of his novels to help out. He even got some help from former Confederates. This is a testament to his personal integrity, but his administration was as corrupt as they come.

3. The string of Yankee generals that all became president after the civil war. Graft, cronyism, robber baron payees, ect.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
The criteria I judge a President by are a bit different than I think most do. For example, I rarely give blame or credit to a President for the economy. The same goes for credit/blame for legislation that Congress is primarily responsible for.

Most of how I judge a President is in their role as Commander-in-Chief as that is an area in which they have virtually unchecked power. Obama got us into more unnecessary military conflicts, drastically increased the drone program, the use of signature strikes, and he fully embraced the Patriot Act despite him warning of its dangers.

Now, I am not going to try and convince you of my position on this. My personal views of Obama’s performance are largely based on my experience. I spent most of GWB’s and the entirety of Obama’s presidency overseas as a member of the intelligence community. I participated in carrying out the less public side of their foreign policy and saw first hand the results. I am incredibly bitter over a particular incident that I was manipulated into by the Obama administration that I will never forgive his administration for. But that is anecdotal information that would be illegal for me to share and, frankly, you would have no reason to believe if I told you. But it is a big part of why I personally am not a fan of Obama’s presidency even though I enthusiastically voted for him...the first time.

I fully understand why people living more normal lives back here at home had a very positive impression of his presidency and I don’t begrudge them that one bit.
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well you can criticize the drone use and signature strikes if you like (as do liberals). But I wouldn't say "he fully embraced the Patriot Act despite him warning of its dangers." He did enact reforms and he didn't "illegally wiretap Americans" like Bush. But I'm just not seeing the "deal breaker" you see or saw to call him a disappointment.
 
Vern said:
But I'm just not seeing the "deal breaker" you see or saw to call him a disappointment.
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Consider yourself fortunate for that.
 
Fearandloathing said:
I doubt there is a greater detractor of Obama than I. I never counted, but was accused of "hate" toward Obama hundreds of times, almost as much as the Trump losers have so far.

History is going to be very kind to Obama, basically because he was bracketed by two of the most inept presidents in history. Fair or not, presidents usually get judged on one or two major disasters, Carter was a joke but his "legacy" was the hostage crisis where his plan was to hope the Canadians could bail him out.

Obama will be judged by Obamacare, and in the short term how the bill was crafted (poorly) and rolled out (dishonestly). He will be hacked for the economic condition he inherited and will suffer exaggerations on how bad it was....that's every president anyway.
Click to expand...

History's treatment of Obama, just like the contemporary treatment, depends entirely on who writes it. He knows it and cultivates the relationships with those who create it.
Trump?

No true history of Trump can ignore the most significant point he has made to date, that he is corrupt, childish and mean. What happens to the economy or his petty wars will be covered of course, but his "legacy" as it is unfolding will be to have divided the US more than any external enemy ever could.

Yeah, the economy is going to get vicious all over the world at the single digit IQ stable genius gets his publicity fix destroying every trade agreement, but that will pale in comparison to the civil war he will bring.
Click to expand...

Childish and mean? You might say that. Ego driven? Yes. High self-esteem? Oh yeah. Those are things we can observe.
Corrupt? Judging by what's being disclosed daily about the corruption of those making that accusation I think we'd be wise to withhold judgement on the extent of his own.
 
Parrish said:
Remember the good old days when there weren't at least 5 breaking news alerts referring to the POTUS?
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Remember the good old days when you opposed pretty much every policy the sitting President had, but you could always count on him to act like an adult and not embarrass the entire country?
 
bubbabgone said:
History's treatment of Obama, just like the contemporary treatment, depends entirely on who writes it. He knows it and cultivates the relationships with those who create it.


Childish and mean? You might say that. Ego driven? Yes. High self-esteem? Oh yeah. Those are things we can observe.
Corrupt? Judging by what's being disclosed daily about the corruption of those making that accusation I think we'd be wise to withhold judgement on the extent of his own.
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Let's just set aside his current issues and look at what we know about him as a private citizen. Hush money to hide an extra marital affair? His business practices, lawsuits in the hundreds, bankruptcies and shadowy dealings. His constant lying especially, honest people don't have to exaggerate their history nor try to hide it.

I don't have any trouble saying he's corrupt, people have been saying that about him all his life. Only now that it's an official investigation of a "sitting president"
is it a problem.
Most of the people defending this guy would NEVER have had he not run for president and blew new life into the corpse of the Republican party. This is loyalty of convenience. Business is happy so everything is fine and dandy
 
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eohrnberger said:
The fundamental change, as instituted, has left the nation divided along tribal lines, with overheated political rhetoric, , race relations much worse than in 50 years, an on going culture war, ever increasing government interference and intervention in people's lives and freedoms, and a morass of excessive PC stupidity being promoted to be some sort of utopian public policy.

Hard to find anything good in any of that. Granted, Trump is no prize, but Obama's fundamental change of the US is even less of a prize.

Obama was most certainly NOT 'too good for the US'.

We can see this in what's being revealed about his administration's weaponization of the government and abuse of government power against his political opposition.

Sorry, but Obama's has taken the 'worst president' award from Carter.
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Being black did indeed unleash lots of division along racial lines. Obama should have done something about being black.

I have to laugh at all of this as if the Bush years weren't divisive. The "weaponization of the government and abuse of government power against his political opposition," is tin-foil hat stuff.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Let's just set aside his current issues and look at what we know about him as a private citizen. Hush money to hide an extra marital affair? His business practices, lawsuits in the hundreds, bankruptcies and shadowy dealings. His constant lying especially, honest people don't have to exaggerate their history nor try to hide it.

I don't have any trouble saying he's corrupt, people have been saying that about him all his life. Only now that it's an official investigation of a "sitting president"
is it a problem.
Most of the people defending this guy would NEVER have had he not run for president and blew new life into the corpse of the Republican party. This is loyalty of convenience. Business is happy so everything is fine and dandy
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Aren't we talking about what you perceive to be Trump corruption as POTUS?
I'm not going to set aside current issues because that's what I care about.
To me Obama was as phony and as big a liar in promoting his agenda as they come and everything I know about him suggests he always has been. But if he performed to my liking as POTUS I would have been happy with him.
What has Trump done as POTUS that made you unhappy?
 
bubbabgone said:
Aren't we talking about what you perceive to be Trump corruption as POTUS?
I'm not going to set aside current issues because that's what I care about.
To me Obama was as phony and as big a liar in promoting his agenda as they come and everything I know about him suggests he always has been. But if he performed to my liking as POTUS I would have been happy with him.
What has Trump done as POTUS that made you unhappy?
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OK, notice what you did there. You dragged Obama into the debate after suggesting without ONE basic hint that I am prejudice, further hinting that because I am against Trump, Obama must be my guy.

I never tried to do a comparison and wouldn't. If you had been paying attention you will find eight years worth of post slamming Obama as hard as I have Trump.

Please park your opinion of me as it's based on the same ****ing narrative every ****ing problem in the US, taking sides.

I call 'em the way I see them. These days I get the exact same flack from Trumpies that I used to get from Obama's ilk.

I have to say I am deeply surprised. You've seen eight years or more of my posting and for you to make the typical ultra biased comparison with the same faulty logic is very surprising.
 
eohrnberger said:
The fundamental change, as instituted, has left the nation divided along tribal lines, with overheated political rhetoric, , race relations much worse than in 50 years, an on going culture war, ever increasing government interference and intervention in people's lives and freedoms, and a morass of excessive PC stupidity being promoted to be some sort of utopian public policy.

Hard to find anything good in any of that. Granted, Trump is no prize, but Obama's fundamental change of the US is even less of a prize.

Obama was most certainly NOT 'too good for the US'.

We can see this in what's being revealed about his administration's weaponization of the government and abuse of government power against his political opposition.

Sorry, but Obama's has taken the 'worst president' award from Carter.
Click to expand...

It was a hard fight, they both left it all on the court, but Obama just wanted it more.
 
jmotivator said:
It was a hard fight, they both left it all on the court, but Obama just wanted it more.
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Obama was willing to lie more, to be more corrupt and do more corruption to get it, as we are now finding out.
 
Fearandloathing said:
OK, notice what you did there. You dragged Obama into the debate after suggesting without ONE basic hint that I am prejudice, further hinting that because I am against Trump, Obama must be my guy.

I never tried to do a comparison and wouldn't. If you had been paying attention you will find eight years worth of post slamming Obama as hard as I have Trump.

Please park your opinion of me as it's based on the same ****ing narrative every ****ing problem in the US, taking sides.

I call 'em the way I see them. These days I get the exact same flack from Trumpies that I used to get from Obama's ilk.

I have to say I am deeply surprised. You've seen eight years or more of my posting and for you to make the typical ultra biased comparison with the same faulty logic is very surprising.
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First...calm down. I've only been here 5 years.

Second ... I only mentioned Obama in order to make the point that, for me, a President's personality is secondary to what he does for the Country as President.
Sooooooo, in order to explain my political approach I noted that if Obama had done what I perceive as the right things for the Country I'd have approved of his Presidency despite his personality.
I view Trump through the same prism.
My turn ... I am deeply surprised you don't ... or do you?
I don't know the answer and that's why I asked you "What has Trump done as POTUS that made you unhappy?"
 
History will show that Obama was one of our most shady and destructive presidents. He weakened us in almost every aspect.

For those of you who keep saying "but..but...the economy!" do you really think it was by liberal design for our economy to under-perform and stagnate until just after Trump was elected? Wouldn't you think it would serve liberals better if that huge upswing would have happened before the last couple months of his term? He was a stagflation president, and Hillary losing was the best thing to happen to our economy.
 
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