Judge: Bars are allowed to throw out Trump supporters

jonny5 · May 8, 2018

Peter King said:
depends on who is wearing the hat and what kind of bar it is. Now if I go into a police bar (a bar frequented by police officers) in a t-shirt "blue lives don't matter" (not that such a t-shirt exists to the best of knowledge) with on the back "**** the police, thugs life rules". Wearing a baseball hat a police badge with a big cross through it dripping with blood", I have every reason to expect to the thrown out or thrown in jail if I resist being thrown out.

Now if I am a big Trump/alt-right supporter and I walk into a bar frequented by nothing but progressives and I have a MAGA hat on and some loud "Lock her up" t-shirt or something like that, a bar owner would have every right to throw me out to prevent issues for him and for me.

So yes, attire/hats can be a problem for a bar owner who does not want his bar trashed by a violent tussle.

I worked in a hard rock bar/heavy metal bar, kicking people out sometimes happened, but there it happened mostly for how they acted, not for how they looked. But in some bars I can understand why attire matters.

So then it should be the same for all businesses right? Anyone who the business owner thinks is a problem can be refused service.

Peter King · May 8, 2018

jonny5 said:
Not that you have to be, but that your arent. :twocents: :2razz:

Does not change anything of what I said, no matter how much you disagree.

Peter King · May 8, 2018

jonny5 said:
So then it should be the same for all businesses right? Anyone who the business owner thinks is a problem can be refused service.

Which most mean the bar owner in the Trump throwing out issue must have had the same thought, kick out the person he thought was going to cause an issue.

jonny5 · May 9, 2018

Peter King said:
Which most mean the bar owner in the Trump throwing out issue must have had the same thought, kick out the person he thought was going to cause an issue.

According to the story, they one causing the issue was his staff.

Anyone who supports Trump — or believes what you believe — is not welcome here! And you need to leave right now because we won’t serve you!” Piatek claims he was told as he was shown the door by a manager.

The judge ruled on those facts, and said this was legal. Which it certainly should be. And therefore the same should go for someone wearing a LGBT hat in a bakery.

Peter King · May 9, 2018

jonny5 said:
According to the story, they one causing the issue was his staff.

Which might have lead to an issue, and again, I did not agree with the throwing out of non-bothersome people just because they support the Orange Oaf. But it is indeed the bar owners right I would assume because even though it is a public accommodation and discrimination on race/etc. etc. is illegal, being a Trump supporter is not a protected group.

jonny5 said:
The judge ruled on those facts, and said this was legal. Which it certainly should be. And therefore the same should go for someone wearing a LGBT hat in a bakery.

You are clearly mistaken because both the bar and the bakery are public accommodations and they are not allowed to discriminate under the law (of several protected groups) which includes in several states a LGBT person. So it would be highly dubious whether the bakery comment you made is correct.

jonny5 · May 10, 2018

Peter King said:
Which might have lead to an issue, and again, I did not agree with the throwing out of non-bothersome people just because they support the Orange Oaf. But it is indeed the bar owners right I would assume because even though it is a public accommodation and discrimination on race/etc. etc. is illegal, being a Trump supporter is not a protected group.

You are clearly mistaken because both the bar and the bakery are public accommodations and they are not allowed to discriminate under the law (of several protected groups) which includes in several states a LGBT person. So it would be highly dubious whether the bakery comment you made is correct.

Notice the word SHOULD. A baker or bar owner SHOULD be able to refuse service to anyone they dont like. And if someone is legally protected because of their beleifs on race or sex, then fairness in the law would cover ALL beliefs.

yankintx · May 10, 2018

Gaius46 said:
Well first it's not right to refuse service to a Trump supporter just because he's a trump supporter but it is legal.

I suppose you can similarly not serve someone who supports homsexuality but in the case of a gay man, who presumably also support homosexuality, who do you propose disentangling his support of homosexuality from his being homosexual and insure that the bar owner isn't illegally discriminating? The distinction you're trying to draw may make sense on paper but I think it falls apart in the real world.

I am a gay man, if I am refused service I would just take my large disposable income elsewhere. We gays do not normally have an ex wife and children to financially support, therefore we have more disposable income at our disposal. Many business owners will take the pink $, and actively seek us out. What I would do is insure ALL of my gay friends, and there families are aware of the businesses policy for refusing me service. Its that simple, I am not one to force others to do something there prejudiced hang up would have a problem with.

Gaius46 · May 10, 2018

yankintx said:
I am a gay man, if I am refused service I would just take my large disposable income elsewhere. We gays do not normally have an ex wife and children to financially support, therefore we have more disposable income at our disposal. Many business owners will take the pink $, and actively seek us out. What I would do is insure ALL of my gay friends, and there families are aware of the businesses policy for refusing me service. Its that simple, I am not one to force others to do something there prejudiced hang up would have a problem with.

Exactly right. There was a time when public accommodation laws made sense from a public policy standpoint but that was back in the day when there was only one hotel or grocery store in town and discriminating meant someone slept in their car or went hungry. As a supporter of property rights and freedom to contract that still runs counter to my gut support of a person's right to do business business or not do business with people as they see fit but I understand the need and accept it. For huge parts of the country that's no longer the case.

I honestly can't understand why someone would push the issue. I'm not gay and if I found myself in a gay bar and was refused service I'd just leave. If I forced the issue and made them serve me I don't see where I'd be able to enjoy myself (or get some piece and quiet if that was what I was after) knowing that I really wasn't wanted there. But then I've never really been discriminated against so it's theoretical to me.

As a bar owner the only thing I'd care about is the color of the guy's money. Aside from that if he isn't harassing other patrons what do I care?

yankintx · May 10, 2018

Gaius46 said:
Exactly right. There was a time when public accommodation laws made sense from a public policy standpoint but that was back in the day when there was only one hotel or grocery store in town and discriminating meant someone slept in their car or went hungry. As a supporter of property rights and freedom to contract that still runs counter to my gut support of a person's right to do business business or not do business with people as they see fit but I understand the need and accept it. For huge parts of the country that's no longer the case.

I honestly can't understand why someone would push the issue. I'm not gay and if I found myself in a gay bar and was refused service I'd just leave. If I forced the issue and made them serve me I don't see where I'd be able to enjoy myself (or get some piece and quiet if that was what I was after) knowing that I really wasn't wanted there. But then I've never really been discriminated against so it's theoretical to me.

As a bar owner the only thing I'd care about is the color of the guy's money. Aside from that if he isn't harassing other patrons what do I care?

Honey, if your in a gay bar ordering a drink they won't care if your straight or bent. Money is green, no black, white, yellow or pink. Its their loss if they refuse my cash.

Gaius46 · May 10, 2018

yankintx said:
Honey, if your in a gay bar ordering a drink they won't care if your straight or bent. Money is green, no black, white, yellow or pink. Its their loss if they refuse my cash.

I figure most places are like that. And if this guy doesn't want my money the guy down the street does.

trouble13 · May 13, 2018

bearpoker said:
I actually think the bar owner was wrong to throw out a patron just because of a political disagreement. I'm interested to know if you think it was okay for the barman as well as the baker to refuse service.

Yup they both should have the right to turn down buisiness they don't want.

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trouble13 · May 13, 2018

Felis Leo said:
Yes. I think any private business owner should have the absolute right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, whether it is simply a personal dislike of a person's politics, economic reasons, or right up to and including outright bigotry. If a business owner does not want to serve gay people or straight people, they should be allowed. If a business owner does not want to serve women, or men, they should be allowed. If a business owner does not want to serve able-bodied people or disabled people they should be allowed. If a business owner hates Iranian-Americans and doesn't want to serve someone like me, that is their business, and I will take my money elsewhere. If they believe their business will survive with the hatred, scorn and obloquy of their peers that follows, so be it.

Absolutely feel the same way but just want to add that not all discrimination is bad. If you wanted to open an Iranian American only establishment that's fine too. Nothing wrong with people with common beliefs having a place to express them without outside interference. As long as whatever is going on is done peacefully it's nobodys buisiness other than those involved.

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trouble13 · May 13, 2018

Ikari said:
Overall, it's probably a poor decision to do so. It can easily backfire into a PR nightmare. But it's up the the bar owner I suppose.

It would be funny if Trump supporters picketed his bar and chased his customers off

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trouble13 · May 13, 2018

chuckiechan said:
When I got out of the Army after Vietnam in '68, I went into bar to buy some cigarettes and caught some **** for long hair. Well I hope the assholes had a back door or a phone, because they left the padlock handy on the front and I locked the bastards in. They are lucky I didn't torch the place.

Now I had my reasons for not thinking right, and maybe they did too. But at the end of the day, civility has to take precedence over politics.

Being a nation of assholes is not a good thing.

Regarding the bar in question, I'd just to go Yelp and say it's the best gay bar I've ever visited!

Lmao

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