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Dear Democrats, It's Time to Admit That the Koch Brothers are Your Allies

truthatallcost

truthatallcost

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For well over a decade now, we've heard about how evil and sinister the decrepit Koch Brothers are in the mainstream press. This designation was of course bestowed upon them because they were filthy rich, and supported conservative causes and candidates.

But the Koch Brothers are actually more in line with what the DNC wants, and they hinted at that by donating more money in 2016 to Hillary Clinton's campaign than Donald Trump's.

They're also currently spending millions of dollars to promote illegal immigration, with a new advertising campaign that hopes to guilt trip you into supporting the Dreamers.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/17/kochs-dreamers-talks-529687

Now I know some people will quip, "sure, the Koch brothers supported Hillary Clinton and want amnesty for illegal immigration, but the Koch bros still support big business GOP candidates". To which I'll say...ahem... have you noticed that your modern Democratic party are also just shills for globalist conglomerates by now?

As for liberal social causes, the Koch folks don't care if you do drugs, join BLM, become a member of the opposite sex, abort your offspring, etc etc etc.

So rest easy libruls and fauxgressives- the Koch bros are no more evil than that old creepy lech George Soros. They are now yours to keep.

Hugs n kisses,

-TAAC
 
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I thought it was painfully evident that the establishment of both political parties are fundamentally shills of the rich and powerful (and in particular their biggest donors/PAC sponsors/lobbyists)? Only the most willfully ignorant or blindly partisan would say otherwise.
 
Both parties work for the corporations. The Republicans just do a bit better for their bottom line than Democrats. But what those with real wealth and power want most is to keep getting wealth and power. Change and unpredictability scare them, which is why they would prefer Hillary to Trump.
 
truthatallcost said:
For well over a decade now, we've heard about how evil and sinister the decrepit Koch Brothers are in the mainstream press. This designation was of course bestowed upon them because they were filthy rich, and supported conservative causes and candidates.

But the Koch Brothers are actually more in line with what the DNC wants, and they hinted at that by donating more money in 2016 to Hillary Clinton's campaign than Donald Trump's.

They're also currently spending millions of dollars to promote illegal immigration, with a new advertising campaign that hopes to guilt trip you into supporting the Dreamers.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/17/kochs-dreamers-talks-529687

Now I know some people will quip, "sure, the Koch brothers supported Hillary Clinton and want amnesty for illegal immigration, but the Koch bros still support big business GOP candidates". To which I'll say...ahem... have you noticed that your modern Democratic party are also just shills for globalist conglomerates by now?

As for liberal social causes, the Koch folks don't care if you do drugs, join BLM, become a member of the opposite sex, abort your offspring, etc etc etc.

So rest easy libruls and fauxgressives- the Koch bros are no more evil than that old creepy lech George Soros. They are now yours to keep.

Hugs n kisses,

-TAAC
Click to expand...

I looked but couldn't find a record of them donating to either campaign in 2016. The only article dealing with it I found was Charles Koch saying it was blood libel that he would consider donating to Clinton.
 
truthatallcost said:
For well over a decade now, we've heard about how evil and sinister the decrepit Koch Brothers are in the mainstream press. This designation was of course bestowed upon them because they were filthy rich, and supported conservative causes and candidates.

But the Koch Brothers are actually more in line with what the DNC wants, and they hinted at that by donating more money in 2016 to Hillary Clinton's campaign than Donald Trump's.

They're also currently spending millions of dollars to promote illegal immigration, with a new advertising campaign that hopes to guilt trip you into supporting the Dreamers.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/17/kochs-dreamers-talks-529687

Now I know some people will quip, "sure, the Koch brothers supported Hillary Clinton and want amnesty for illegal immigration, but the Koch bros still support big business GOP candidates". To which I'll say...ahem... have you noticed that your modern Democratic party are also just shills for globalist conglomerates by now?

As for liberal social causes, the Koch folks don't care if you do drugs, join BLM, become a member of the opposite sex, abort your offspring, etc etc etc.

So rest easy libruls and fauxgressives- the Koch bros are no more evil than that old creepy lech George Soros. They are now yours to keep.

Hugs n kisses,

-TAAC
Click to expand...

hehe...fauxgressives, I like that, bud... :)

I don't know if you're right or not on whether the Koch brothers are in bed with the DNC, but I wouldn't be surprised...but I would be surprised if they weren't diversified enough to have both parties covered, regardless to who wins.

But if you're suggesting that they are allies with Dem voters, I would have to argue that not even the DNC are currently allies to Dem voters, just as the GOP couldn't care less about their voters. I think the second biggest problem that America faces is the fact that their government does not operate in the interests of the American people, beyond what it takes to get their vote. And at the moment it appears all they need to do to achieve that is drive the divisiveness to the point where each camp wouldn't think of voting for anyone else. In the meantime, they primarily serve themselves, and the corporate piggy banks that fund their empire building and power plays.

Of course, the number one biggest problem America faces is the fact that you guys are too divided to do anything about that. I hate the "wake up" mantra, it's more played out than the Macarena, but in this context you guys really need to.
 
OlNate said:
hehe...fauxgressives, I like that, bud... :)
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Thanks, can I copyright that? Jk, anybody is free to use that.

I don't know if you're right or not on whether the Koch brothers are in bed with the DNC, but I wouldn't be surprised...but I would be surprised if they weren't diversified enough to have both parties covered, regardless to who wins.
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They contribute to some D candidates, but remain heavily invested in the GOP. If Trump's election would have been indicative of a party wide switch to populism, the Kochs would just jump ship entirely, and mostly support Ds.

But if you're suggesting that they are allies with Dem voters, I would have to argue that not even the DNC are currently allies to Dem voters, just as the GOP couldn't care less about their voters. I think the second biggest problem that America faces is the fact that their government does not operate in the interests of the American people, beyond what it takes to get their vote. And at the moment it appears all they need to do to achieve that is drive the divisiveness to the point where each camp wouldn't think of voting for anyone else. In the meantime, they primarily serve themselves, and the corporate piggy banks that fund their empire building and power plays.
Click to expand...

Perhaps we've been duped into a divide and conquer scheme. That's precisely what happens when the government decides to replace it's people with new, more easily controlled people. Mexicans don't dare fight government corruption at home, instead they just move where it's easier to live. Then their children take up activism in the US to demand things of our government.

Of course, the number one biggest problem America faces is the fact that you guys are too divided to do anything about that. I hate the "wake up" mantra, it's more played out than the Macarena, but in this context you guys really need to.
Click to expand...

You may be witnessing your own country's future by observing us. I've heard that Trudeau has become a divisive figure, and I can't really fathom how he got elected in the first place. He comes across as an actor playing a president on a TV mini series. I suspect he was elected for the feels, much like Obama was.
 
It only starts to get sticky when you start to track contributions from groups like ALEC.
 
truthatallcost said:
You may be witnessing your own country's future by observing us. I've heard that Trudeau has become a divisive figure, and I can't really fathom how he got elected in the first place. He comes across as an actor playing a president on a TV mini series. I suspect he was elected for the feels, much like Obama was.
Click to expand...

I think we are witnessing a part of our country move towards the divisiveness that we see in the States, but I wouldn't say that it's Trudeau who's responsible for it...certainly not to the extent that Trump has been, at least. Conservatives hate him, of course, as do the NDP, because both thought for sure that 2015 was their year. But the Conservatives were generally hated by both supporters of the Liberals and the NDP, because Harper (our previous PM) was a divisive racist (yes, racist, either by belief or by nature of the fact that he was willing to use racism to secure a part of his base) fear mongering asshole. He was trying to take us down the same road you guys are, much quicker than is happening without him. And the NDP basically blew the entire thing, as it was their election to lose, based on polls at the start. Poor Mulcair couldn't shake the image of a snake oil salesman - certainly he couldn't live up to the near god-like charisma of his predecessor Layton, who for sure would have won that election had he not passed away.

Trudeau had a really good platform... legalizing pot nationally was huge for him, for sure. Also his economic plan was good - investing in infrastructure to create jobs is always popular. And yeah, he was some class at the end of a long time of Conservative embarrassment (not because they were "small c" conservative, but because they were embarrassing). The feels were definitely involved, but we needed it. I think mostly we hoped that Canada would look a little more like itself, and feel less divided. Sadly, though not to the extent you guys are dealing with, that unity didn't come, and Harper supporters started driving around with Trump bumper stickers, deliberately to flip off Libs...hehe...

Not that I'm a Trudeau fan boy. I voted for him, given the other options, but he has let me down on a few things he didn't come through on. But he's opening the door for the pot thing, which is good on a lot of levels, and he has done a good job of shaking off the negative image Canada took on under Harper. Maybe a little too much a couple times...hehe...he has made himself look goofy on occasion. And he's definitely part of the elite, don't let anyone kid you. But I can honestly say I like the country under him much better than under Harper, I'm further ahead financially, I support many of his social initiatives, and given the options we have right now I'd vote for him again...though I'd love to see him hand the reins over to a leader that had a little more substance.

Most importantly, though, he did try to be a unifier. Some of his first speeches acknowledged how divisive the election had been, and how important it was for *his supporters* to mend fences with conservative Canadians, making it clear that we were all Canadians. And trust me, while we did things a little more, well, Canadian than you guys did it, there was certainly backlash and weeping and moaning from the right when he was elected...they were not happy, and neither was the far left. Trudeau had a majority, he could have told them all to **** off, but he was classy, man...after what we'd been through, that was enough for a bit. Gotta remember, we're Canadian, we're not used to being at each other's throat...well, unless you consider Quebec, but that's another story...haha... ;)

Sadly neither of the other two losing sides have gotten over their angst, and Trudeau's misses have caused folks on the fence who voted for him to start talking a bit of smack about him as well. The politicians went after him over every little thing too...though his "every little things" were a bit less extreme than your guy's...a series of petty grievances, with hashtaggy names like Nanny Gate and Elbow Gate (look em up for a laugh if you're unfamiliar). It was embarrassing.

But despite the fact that everyone seems pissed and bitter at each other, there's very few things anyone can really point to that they're mad about, except what the papers and social media tells them to be mad about. We still live in a pretty good country, for the most part. Certainly we're not as in hate with each other as you guys seem to be.

Nah, I get why you think we might be headed down the same road as you guys, and maybe we are, but we won't go down it as far...we just don't have as much to be pissed off about as you guys do. I guess we'll see where we're at when the next election cycle comes around...it's always a nail biter these days, no matter where you are. :)
 
OlNate said:
I think we are witnessing a part of our country move towards the divisiveness that we see in the States, but I wouldn't say that it's Trudeau who's responsible for it...certainly not to the extent that Trump has been, at least. Conservatives hate him, of course, as do the NDP, because both thought for sure that 2015 was their year. But the Conservatives were generally hated by both supporters of the Liberals and the NDP, because Harper (our previous PM) was a divisive racist (yes, racist, either by belief or by nature of the fact that he was willing to use racism to secure a part of his base) fear mongering asshole. He was trying to take us down the same road you guys are, much quicker than is happening without him. And the NDP basically blew the entire thing, as it was their election to lose, based on polls at the start. Poor Mulcair couldn't shake the image of a snake oil salesman - certainly he couldn't live up to the near god-like charisma of his predecessor Layton, who for sure would have won that election had he not passed away.

Trudeau had a really good platform... legalizing pot nationally was huge for him, for sure. Also his economic plan was good - investing in infrastructure to create jobs is always popular. And yeah, he was some class at the end of a long time of Conservative embarrassment (not because they were "small c" conservative, but because they were embarrassing). The feels were definitely involved, but we needed it. I think mostly we hoped that Canada would look a little more like itself, and feel less divided. Sadly, though not to the extent you guys are dealing with, that unity didn't come, and Harper supporters started driving around with Trump bumper stickers, deliberately to flip off Libs...hehe...
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snip
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All of those words but you never do get to the convention wisdom that with Trudeau there is not enough there there....

Of course, the most usual criticism about Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is that he is more style than substance and too focused on image.

But perhaps the reason for the Liberals’ drop in the polls goes deeper. Perhaps we thought Trudeau had no substance but, after a couple of years of getting to know him, we’ve seen he does — and we don’t like it.

A most alarming poll for the Liberals came from Ipsos last week which showed the Conservatives leading and the NDP gaining at Liberal expense. The poll put the Conservatives at 38% (unchanged), the Liberals on 31% (down two) and the NDP at 23% (up two). If an election was held today under the first-past-the-post system Trudeau promised he’d eliminate, Andrew Scheer might win a majority government.
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PARKIN: Liberals are down in the polls, maybe the problem is Trudeau?s vision | Toronto Sun
 
Hawkeye10 said:
All of those words but you never do get to the convention wisdom that with Trudeau there is not enough there there....


PARKIN: Liberals are down in the polls, maybe the problem is Trudeau?s vision | Toronto Sun
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lol...you snipped the part where I explained that, and said I hope the next guy has more substance:

Not that I'm a Trudeau fan boy. I voted for him, given the other options, but he has let me down on a few things he didn't come through on. But he's opening the door for the pot thing, which is good on a lot of levels, and he has done a good job of shaking off the negative image Canada took on under Harper. Maybe a little too much a couple times...hehe...he has made himself look goofy on occasion. And he's definitely part of the elite, don't let anyone kid you. But I can honestly say I like the country under him much better than under Harper, I'm further ahead financially, I support many of his social initiatives, and given the options we have right now I'd vote for him again...though I'd love to see him hand the reins over to a leader that had a little more substance.
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Next time read the whole post, my friend...it was in the very next paragraph. ;)
 
OlNate said:
lol...you snipped the part where I explained that, and said I hope the next guy has more substance:



Next time read the whole post, my friend...it was in the very next paragraph. ;)
Click to expand...

What is this Canadian Nice where you just barely hint at something that you are trying to say because you dont want to be rude about the guy?? Your post sounded too rose colors glasses by a lot to me but like I say maybe I was misreading you because you are Canadian.

:2wave:
 
Hawkeye10 said:
What is this Canadian Nice where you just barely hint at something that you are trying to say because you dont want to be rude about the guy?? Your post sounded too rose colors glasses by a lot to me but like I say maybe I was misreading you because you are Canadian.

:2wave:
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lol...well, that's a distinct possibility. But despite a lack of substance in our leader, in terms of what constitutes traditional "SUBSTANCE", the country isn't going into disarray, and people aren't as pissed off in general as you guys are. You don't have to be frothing at the mouth and ready to punch your neighbour's lights out, just because you're not happy with the political climate or the results being put forward by the government. It's not so much that I don't want to be rude about him, I just don't hate him...thank God for the ability to disagree with some of the things the sitting government is doing and not go bat**** crazy in the process. ;)

One of the coolest things about the 2015 election was the fact that it was really the first time I can remember strategic voting. The opposition towards Harper was so deep that many people who would never vote for the Liberal party put aside their differences and worked together to get rid of someone we felt was ruining our country. That meant that far right and far left met in the middle and did something constructive together - not all the far left and not all the far right, but enough to get the desired result. That's pretty spectacular, if you think about it, even if you're not a fan of the way we went. I mean, the Liberals were supposed to come in dead last. Instead they got a majority, sending a pretty strong message to government in general that the majority of Canadians aren't (or weren't then) willing to tolerate being divided just so a few people at the top of the pyramid can secure power. I don't bring this up to shove it in your face, but rather to let you know that it is possible, despite whatever your media or politicians tell you. You're a lot stronger when you're united. :)
 
OlNate said:
lol...well, that's a distinct possibility. But despite a lack of substance in our leader, in terms of what constitutes traditional "SUBSTANCE", the country isn't going into disarray, and people aren't as pissed off in general as you guys are. You don't have to be frothing at the mouth and ready to punch your neighbour's lights out, just because you're not happy with the political climate or the results being put forward by the government. It's not so much that I don't want to be rude about him, I just don't hate him...thank God for the ability to disagree with some of the things the sitting government is doing and not go bat**** crazy in the process. ;)

One of the coolest things about the 2015 election was the fact that it was really the first time I can remember strategic voting. The opposition towards Harper was so deep that many people who would never vote for the Liberal party put aside their differences and worked together to get rid of someone we felt was ruining our country. That meant that far right and far left met in the middle and did something constructive together - not all the far left and not all the far right, but enough to get the desired result. That's pretty spectacular, if you think about it, even if you're not a fan of the way we went. I mean, the Liberals were supposed to come in dead last. Instead they got a majority, sending a pretty strong message to government in general that the majority of Canadians aren't (or weren't then) willing to tolerate being divided just so a few people at the top of the pyramid can secure power. I don't bring this up to shove it in your face, but rather to let you know that it is possible, despite whatever your media or politicians tell you. You're a lot stronger when you're united. :)
Click to expand...

I am a little (OK, A Lot) out of touch but I do know that my brother is in a couple of months taking whatever that train is Toronto - Vancouver and he tells me that the train is pretty much never ontime because the railroad is a wreck....and I know I saw something about some big thing about this though I have not investigated.

But as far as America goes you know that I dont approve, and I point out that the penalty for doing things this wrong is BIG PAIN, and that we have done so much wrong that it is unavoidable now.......hopefully we are together on that point.

:2wave:
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am a little (OK, A Lot) out of touch but I do know that my brother is in a couple of months taking whatever that train is Toronto - Vancouver and he tells me that the train is pretty much never ontime because the railroad is a wreck....and I know I saw something about some big thing about this though I have not investigated.

But as far as America goes you know that I dont approve, and I point out that the penalty for doing things this wrong is BIG PAIN, and that we have done so much wrong that it is unavoidable now.......hopefully we are together on that point.

:2wave:
Click to expand...

Ha! Ya, I gotta agree, the trains are an issue. But at least it's one they are constantly trying to figure out, while there are major benefits to being a population of only 36 million inhabiting the 2nd largest country in the world, it does have it's challenges as well. But while I agree, I had to look it up when you mentioned it. I've never heard anyone complain about it, and I have taken the train like maybe twice? And never Via rail, who it appears is the one experiencing the issues. The GO train system, which is the main commuter line through the east - west corridor through the majority of the big cities surrounding lake Ontario, which is the majority of the population in this province, is pretty good, and widely used...though I've always driven, I'm not a huge fan of public transit in general, I get claustrophobic...hehe... :)
 
OlNate said:
Ha! Ya, I gotta agree, the trains are an issue. But at least it's one they are constantly trying to figure out, while there are major benefits to being a population of only 36 million inhabiting the 2nd largest country in the world, it does have it's challenges as well. But while I agree, I had to look it up when you mentioned it. I've never heard anyone complain about it, and I have taken the train like maybe twice? And never Via rail, who it appears is the one experiencing the issues. The GO train system, which is the main commuter line through the east - west corridor through the majority of the big cities surrounding lake Ontario, which is the majority of the population in this province, is pretty good, and widely used...though I've always driven, I'm not a huge fan of public transit in general, I get claustrophobic...hehe... :)
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hehe Back Atcha :cool:

May Summer come for you soon so that you can enjoy the outdoors portion of that new house of yours.








:cowboy:
 
Anagram said:
Fair enough. Interesting that doesn’t seem to be in any article I can find
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Hmm... The same media that has vilified the Koch bros for 15 years, and supported Hillary Clinton 9-1 for President, couldn't find the time to report this. Color me shocked.
 
truthatallcost said:
For well over a decade now, we've heard about how evil and sinister the decrepit Koch Brothers are in the mainstream press. This designation was of course bestowed upon them because they were filthy rich, and supported conservative causes and candidates.

But the Koch Brothers are actually more in line with what the DNC wants, and they hinted at that by donating more money in 2016 to Hillary Clinton's campaign than Donald Trump's.

They're also currently spending millions of dollars to promote illegal immigration, with a new advertising campaign that hopes to guilt trip you into supporting the Dreamers.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/17/kochs-dreamers-talks-529687

Now I know some people will quip, "sure, the Koch brothers supported Hillary Clinton and want amnesty for illegal immigration, but the Koch bros still support big business GOP candidates". To which I'll say...ahem... have you noticed that your modern Democratic party are also just shills for globalist conglomerates by now?

As for liberal social causes, the Koch folks don't care if you do drugs, join BLM, become a member of the opposite sex, abort your offspring, etc etc etc.

So rest easy libruls and fauxgressives- the Koch bros are no more evil than that old creepy lech George Soros. They are now yours to keep.

Hugs n kisses,

-TAAC
Click to expand...

It has happend on both sides of the political spectrum, or our you partisan blind?
 
OlNate said:
I think we are witnessing a part of our country move towards the divisiveness that we see in the States, but I wouldn't say that it's Trudeau who's responsible for it...certainly not to the extent that Trump has been, at least. Conservatives hate him, of course, as do the NDP, because both thought for sure that 2015 was their year. But the Conservatives were generally hated by both supporters of the Liberals and the NDP, because Harper (our previous PM) was a divisive racist (yes, racist, either by belief or by nature of the fact that he was willing to use racism to secure a part of his base) fear mongering asshole. He was trying to take us down the same road you guys are, much quicker than is happening without him. And the NDP basically blew the entire thing, as it was their election to lose, based on polls at the start. Poor Mulcair couldn't shake the image of a snake oil salesman - certainly he couldn't live up to the near god-like charisma of his predecessor Layton, who for sure would have won that election had he not passed away.

Trudeau had a really good platform... legalizing pot nationally was huge for him, for sure. Also his economic plan was good - investing in infrastructure to create jobs is always popular. And yeah, he was some class at the end of a long time of Conservative embarrassment (not because they were "small c" conservative, but because they were embarrassing). The feels were definitely involved, but we needed it. I think mostly we hoped that Canada would look a little more like itself, and feel less divided. Sadly, though not to the extent you guys are dealing with, that unity didn't come, and Harper supporters started driving around with Trump bumper stickers, deliberately to flip off Libs...hehe...
Click to expand...

I voted for Trudeau, both for strategic reasons and because he promised electoral reform and marijuana legalization. Years after the fact (and even at the time; I didn't trust him but he was the only one with anywhere close to a progressive and reformative platform) I find him to be a consummate neoliberal liar, who simply cannot be trusted in light of his wholesale rejection of said promised electoral reform, including the suggestions of the parliamentary committee he appointed to study and advise on the issue (on the back of the bull**** excuse that the public support didn't exist, despite no evidence in support of this whatsoever), who refused to out other ministers abusing the Conflict of Interest loophole, and who appears to be incestuously close with monied interests per Aga Khan, his refusal to reinstate the public vote subsidy, his refusal to tackle corporate level loopholes while happily going after small business and public transit tax breaks, and his cash for access events (though to his credit some reforms were made with respect to improving transparency).

Also as someone who generally aligns with the NDP, the party doesn't and didn't 'hate Trudeau' because they thought it was their year; I mean, did we experience the same election? Mulclair was an uncharismatic joke of a leader, beyond committing to the heresy of going further to the right than the Liberals did in the last federal election despite being presumably the left wing of the three major parties. He was turfed for a very good reason: namely that we couldn't vote for our own damn party. I remember being utterly disgusted by the fact that I had to choose between someone I knew would probably backstab me (Trudeau) and someone who absolutely promised to.

In general, Trudeau is a mixed bag leaning negative, with some very glaring issues, per his broken promises on the Trudeaumeter, beyond the deficits stated here: https://trudeaumetre.polimeter.org/

Overall though, his turfing of electoral reform (plus his refusal to reinstate the public vote subsidy) kills him for me; that was a panacea that would have:

A: Significantly weakened the Conservatives as they currently exist as a political force, since they fundamentally rely on a split left and unified right to seize power per the glaring flaws of FPTP.

B: Eliminated the need to engage in strategic voting.

C: Provided for much more representative government, as opposed to an anti-democratic anachronism which routinely awards 5 year majority dictatorships with the assent of only around 25% of the population.

Lastly, I find his refusal to reinstate the public vote subsidy telling and greatly concerning when one considers that its repeal was close to the first thing the Conservatives did upon gaining a majority, and their reasons were largely concerned with both starving political opponents of funds on both a relative and absolute basis as they were, as the traditional mouthpiece of the rich, the biggest beneficiary of private donations, and encouraging a right ward shift in Canadian politics via an American style proliferation of and dependence on private money in public office.
 
truthatallcost said:
For well over a decade now, we've heard about how evil and sinister the decrepit Koch Brothers are in the mainstream press. This designation was of course bestowed upon them because they were filthy rich, and supported conservative causes and candidates.

But the Koch Brothers are actually more in line with what the DNC wants, and they hinted at that by donating more money in 2016 to Hillary Clinton's campaign than Donald Trump's.

They're also currently spending millions of dollars to promote illegal immigration, with a new advertising campaign that hopes to guilt trip you into supporting the Dreamers.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/17/kochs-dreamers-talks-529687

Now I know some people will quip, "sure, the Koch brothers supported Hillary Clinton and want amnesty for illegal immigration, but the Koch bros still support big business GOP candidates". To which I'll say...ahem... have you noticed that your modern Democratic party are also just shills for globalist conglomerates by now?

As for liberal social causes, the Koch folks don't care if you do drugs, join BLM, become a member of the opposite sex, abort your offspring, etc etc etc.

So rest easy libruls and fauxgressives- the Koch bros are no more evil than that old creepy lech George Soros. They are now yours to keep.

Hugs n kisses,

-TAAC
Click to expand...

Kochs are the founders of the Heartland Institute - a denier AGW organization. Environmentally, they are the Anti-Christ.
 
Media_Truth said:
Kochs are the founders of the Heartland Institute - a denier AGW organization. Environmentally, they are the Anti-Christ.
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They're also a driving force behind the American Legislative Exchange Council, so it's laughable to claim that they are friends of any liberal.

The Kochtopus:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/ae/45/0cae45413635f05a5ad442d32f54e979.jpg

0cae45413635f05a5ad442d32f54e979.jpg
 
Surrealistik said:
I mean, did we experience the same election?
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Hehe...well, I have to agree with you on most of what you've said - basically all the snipped part, as in your long windedness, you didn't leave much room for mine... ;) haha

As I said before, I'm not a Trudeau fanboy. He's done some good, he's done some ball dropping, but he's not the second coming. That said, sounds like we're in agreement that he was the best choice at the time, and I'll go one step further and suggest that as light on substance as he is, he was exactly what we needed at the time, from a national PR perspective. Furthermore, regarding the former, I'd say nothing has changed. Scheer is a smiling Harper (arguably even more problematic, as the Right in Canada look to America for strategic inspiration), and while I like Singh, I like him for the same reasons I liked Trudeau...and therefore am concerned about the same potential pitfalls, but this time from within a party that has no real experience with the tricky proposition of turning their dreams into a reality from a place of national leadership.

However... :lol: If you were one of the few NDP's that didn't lose their minds after Trudeau's win, then I'm not talking about you. But I was on the debate boards and political forums and media comment sections in the months ( and months ... and months) after the election, and you could have flood the world if wine could be made from sour grapes. They were worse than the conservatives, and the politicians weren't any better. Don't get me wrong, there were real gaffes on Trudeau's part, but the flood of "gates" that were brought forward was, or should have been, embarrassing...

Not that I can't empathize...at the beginning you guys were a solid 1st place in the polls - not majority territory, but you definitely had foot, leg, and ass in the door. Mulcair blew all that by being a lunatic, of course, but I get why it stung.

One can't help but wonder what the relationship between the Liberals and the NDP could have been like, and what could have been accomplished, if the NDP had simply kept it classy. I'm a fan of the NDP, I agree with a crap ton of their ideologies. But the problem with the NDP is that they'd rather be the NDP than a party that wants to run the country...not just the granola portfolio, not just the unions are great portfolio, but the entire country, as boring as that can be.

If the NDP came to the next election with real policy, a real roadmap, then they'd have my vote...with one last condition. They need to stop being the Left's version of the Right. What I mean by that is they need to abandon smear tactics and cry baby politics. They need to stop fear mongering that if a conservative idea takes root, the world will end. They need to stop pretending they are the only ones with answers, when in fact they have almost no answers, only good ideas. I'm tired of parties that only point and talk ****, vs. stepping up and saying "here's what I have to offer". In that way only the Liberals stand out as being *slightly* more of the latter...even if they fell on their asses on a few of those statements, that's more like normal Canadian government than the weird hyper partisan direction the NDP and the Conservatives are heading for in Canada.

Furthermore, their treatment of the Green party in the recent BC elections was worthy of the word deplorable. That **** needs to stop, because while I typically vote for policy, I won't vote for assholes out of principle no matter how good the policy sounds, and I'm quite certain I'm not the only one.

...more to follow, cuz I'm long winded... :p
 
Surrealistik said:
I mean, did we experience the same election?
Click to expand...

One idea to float...how about rather than a vote subsidy, we set an extremely tight cap on the amount that can be spent? Elections have turned into three ring circuses as budgets has been increased. We have a national TV network, we have the Internet, we have a national postal service. How much could it cost to get a political party's message out, sans frills? I don't want to pay for someone else's smear campaign, I don't want to pay for someone else's carefully planned psychological manipulation, I just want to hear about policy and make up my own mind. Enough with the Hollywood productions, enough with the sign battles between neighbors. If we want a serious government we should probably start with a serious election. Enough with the BS. This would also get corporations out of the game. Sure, it would be boring, and voter turnout may be lower, but at least you'd know the ones voting would be engaged and educated on the issues, rather than influenced by spicy memes and dramatic orchestral scores in blockbuster commercials. The majority of the door to door stuff is done by volunteers, so that wouldn't change... Seems like a good idea to me.

Oh, and make it impossible, by way of the CRTC, for 3rd party advertisers to air political messages during elections cycles. Given the troubles happening in the states, I don't think it would be that hard a sale. I get that it's a freedom of speech thing, so maybe it could be guidelines, vs. an all out ban, but we've got to get control of our election process somehow, as people are figuring out how to use rights to bamboozle and / or harm the folks who those rights were designed for.
 
OlNate said:
Hehe...well, I have to agree with you on most of what you've said - basically all the snipped part, as in your long windedness, you didn't leave much room for mine... ;) haha

As I said before, I'm not a Trudeau fanboy. He's done some good, he's done some ball dropping, but he's not the second coming. That said, sounds like we're in agreement that he was the best choice at the time, and I'll go one step further and suggest that as light on substance as he is, he was exactly what we needed at the time, from a national PR perspective. Furthermore, regarding the former, I'd say nothing has changed. Scheer is a smiling Harper (arguably even more problematic, as the Right in Canada look to America for strategic inspiration), and while I like Singh, I like him for the same reasons I liked Trudeau...and therefore am concerned about the same potential pitfalls, but this time from within a party that has no real experience with the tricky proposition of turning their dreams into a reality from a place of national leadership.

However... :lol: If you were one of the few NDP's that didn't lose their minds after Trudeau's win, then I'm not talking about you. But I was on the debate boards and political forums and media comment sections in the months ( and months ... and months) after the election, and you could have flood the world if wine could be made from sour grapes. They were worse than the conservatives, and the politicians weren't any better. Don't get me wrong, there were real gaffes on Trudeau's part, but the flood of "gates" that were brought forward was, or should have been, embarrassing...

Not that I can't empathize...at the beginning you guys were a solid 1st place in the polls - not majority territory, but you definitely had foot, leg, and ass in the door. Mulcair blew all that by being a lunatic, of course, but I get why it stung.

One can't help but wonder what the relationship between the Liberals and the NDP could have been like, and what could have been accomplished, if the NDP had simply kept it classy. I'm a fan of the NDP, I agree with a crap ton of their ideologies. But the problem with the NDP is that they'd rather be the NDP than a party that wants to run the country...not just the granola portfolio, not just the unions are great portfolio, but the entire country, as boring as that can be...
Click to expand...

I think you're probably getting the worst of the worst partisans on debate politics boards for reasons that are probably apparent; I don't feel that's representative of the NDP at large.

As for fearmongering, let's be honest, that's more a Liberal thing than anything else, and it hung especially heavy during our last federal elections; though not as explicitly advertised as say Clinton's fearmongering, it was strongly implicit: unify and vote Liberal or risk the Conservative blight, and I would be lying if I were to say that wasn't one of my bigger motives for voting Liberal. Cry baby politics? Maybe, but I'm not sure if they're especially guilty of this compared to other parties.

Mulcair was an abject failure in every sense, absolutely; bad leader who managed to be even worse on policy: like I said, I couldn't vote for my own party because they were further to the right/more centrist than even the Liberals. He didn't fail because he was hyperpartisan, inflexibly populist or purist, he failed because he went full neoliberal/third way Democrat, betrayed the ideas and fundamentals of the party, and pivoted hard to the center at exactly the time the NDP's ideas were most popular, and the zeitgeist was firmly on the left (hence Trudeau's positioning there).

Now here is where I completely disagree: the idea that NDPs don't have answers; they may not have all of the answers, but they generally have the best ones. Look no further than in Ontario where Liberals were (and are) stealing their ideas/policy left and right (Liberals are in a bad way there because Wynne is a colossal uncharismatic ****up), or even in the last federal election, where Trudeau deliberately tried to outmaneuver the NDP on the left in large part by taking traditional NDP ideas/policy and succeeded because Mulcair was that much of a ****up.


OlNate said:
One idea to float...how about rather than a vote subsidy, we set an extremely tight cap on the amount that can be spent?...
Click to expand...

In short I think we should adopt the Norway model which has worked phenomenally well:

https://mic.com/articles/91111/what...ess-in-regulating-campaign-finance#.6mBTsQHPt
 
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