One investigation leads to another ad nauseum....

gdgyva · Apr 11, 2018

Seems like for the last 35+ years or so, someone in DC has been under the microscope

I think it started with the Iran Contra crap and just never stopped

First one side, and then the other just opens investigation after investigation

Maybe it even started before then...and i only started paying attention at that point

Doesnt matter if it is a democrat or a republican....someone is in the hot seat for something

Is this what we have become?

No one even cares to work with the other side....lets get as much dirt as we can find, and throw it against the wall, and see what sticks...forget legislation...forget the people that sent you to DC...forget your MAIN task

Not saying some of the investigations werent warranted....but it seems like THAT is all we are doing....we arent solving any issues....the people we are sending to DC arent fixing the problems we have....

Maybe just maybe we need to remind them that their role is to GOVERN and to legislate...how i long for the days of Tip O'Neill and handshakes across the aisles

MrWonka · Apr 11, 2018

gdgyva said:
Is this what we have become?

No one even cares to work with the other side....

Sorry, but the right wing in this country has become truly evil. You don't compromise with evil. I realize that for a long time now it's been commonplace for political people to compare their opponents to Nazis, but this isn't an exaggeration. This isn't a drill. The Republican party is truly pulsating with evil at this point. Trump supporters ignorance of reality is incredibly dangerous, and we cannot pretend it's anything but just because you want bipartisanship. There is a criminal, a traitor, and a fascist in the White House, and he has access to nuclear weapons.

gdgyva · Apr 11, 2018

nice to know that you see every person with a conservative lean, or with a R next to their name an evil incarnate

i no longer have to wonder WHY the partisanship is out of control

mystery solved....

Cardinal · Apr 11, 2018

gdgyva said:
Seems like for the last 35+ years or so, someone in DC has been under the microscope

I think it started with the Iran Contra crap and just never stopped

First one side, and then the other just opens investigation after investigation

Maybe it even started before then...and i only started paying attention at that point

Doesnt matter if it is a democrat or a republican....someone is in the hot seat for something

Is this what we have become?

No one even cares to work with the other side....lets get as much dirt as we can find, and throw it against the wall, and see what sticks...forget legislation...forget the people that sent you to DC...forget your MAIN task

Not saying some of the investigations werent warranted....but it seems like THAT is all we are doing....we arent solving any issues....the people we are sending to DC arent fixing the problems we have....

Maybe just maybe we need to remind them that their role is to GOVERN and to legislate...how i long for the days of Tip O'Neill and handshakes across the aisles

The rule of law means that nobody, even the country's richest and most powerful people, is above the law.

holbritter · Apr 11, 2018

MrWonka said:
Sorry, but the right wing in this country has become truly evil. You don't compromise with evil. I realize that for a long time now it's been commonplace for political people to compare their opponents to Nazis, but this isn't an exaggeration. This isn't a drill. The Republican party is truly pulsating with evil at this point. Trump supporters ignorance of reality is incredibly dangerous, and we cannot pretend it's anything but just because you want bipartisanship. There is a criminal, a traitor, and a fascist in the White House, and he has access to nuclear weapons.

You are a good example of what he means.

MrWonka · Apr 11, 2018

holbritter said:
You are a good example of what he means.

President Obama did everything he could to extend Olive branches to the Republican party, and try and get them to work together with him. In the first year of his presidency, he spent months trying to work together with Republicans on health care reform despite the fact that he had a super majority and could have passed any bill he wanted. He changed multiple aspects of the ACA to try and soften it and hopefully get even a few Republicans to join him even though it made the bill worse, and it bothered his own party.

Again when trying to repair our broken economy(which fell apart under the previous Republican) President Obama reached out to Republicans at every turn trying to get their support for his stimulus package even though he didn't need it. He offered to extend tax cuts on Millionaires and Billionaires desperate to try and unite this country behind a bipartisan fix.

In each case, the Republican party told President Obama to go **** himself. They didn't care about bipartisanship, they didn't care about solving problems, they didn't want to work together because they were scared if they did it would make President Obama look like a great leader, and they'd never be able to beat him.

Instead, **** heads like Trump ran around the country trying to convince everyone that Obama was secretly a Muslim born in Kenya and that he had illegally stolen the presidency. They didn't just criticize his policies or offer their own, they riled up their racist base and used it's anger to take back Congress. Every time President Obama and Democrats tried to take the Moral high road the Republican party went lower, and how was the Democratic party rewarded for that? The American people elected the very piece of **** that had gone around spreading all those lies about Obama to undo all the good he was able to accomplish.

If you don't reward the good guys and punish the bad guys, you're going to end up with more bad guys. Ignorant Americans have demonstrated that they don't reward compromises, and people who take the moral high road. Trying to work together with the modern Republican party is like Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy's football. At some point Charlie has to realize that if he really wants to kick that football, he should kick Lucy in the ****, take the football from her, and go find someone else to play with.

The breakdown in bipartisanship in this country started with Republicans. They keep getting worse and worse, and they get away with it because Fox News tells their base that they're the good guys, and the average American is too stupid to know the difference. The only way we get back to unity and bipartisanship is if the Republican party wakes up and realizes what they've done and apologizes for it, or we the Democratic party destroys them entirely. As Democrats, we can only control one of those solutions.

holbritter · Apr 11, 2018

MrWonka said:
President Obama did everything he could to extend Olive branches to the Republican party, and try and get them to work together with him. In the first year of his presidency, he spent months trying to work together with Republicans on health care reform despite the fact that he had a super majority and could have passed any bill he wanted. He changed multiple aspects of the ACA to try and soften it and hopefully get even a few Republicans to join him even though it made the bill worse, and it bothered his own party.

Again when trying to repair our broken economy(which fell apart under the previous Republican) President Obama reached out to Republicans at every turn trying to get their support for his stimulus package even though he didn't need it. He offered to extend tax cuts on Millionaires and Billionaires desperate to try and unite this country behind a bipartisan fix.

In each case, the Republican party told President Obama to go **** himself. They didn't care about bipartisanship, they didn't care about solving problems, they didn't want to work together because they were scared if they did it would make President Obama look like a great leader, and they'd never be able to beat him.

Instead, **** heads like Trump ran around the country trying to convince everyone that Obama was secretly a Muslim born in Kenya and that he had illegally stolen the presidency. They didn't just criticize his policies or offer their own, they riled up their racist base and used it's anger to take back Congress. Every time President Obama and Democrats tried to take the Moral high road the Republican party went lower, and how was the Democratic party rewarded for that? The American people elected the very piece of **** that had gone around spreading all those lies about Obama to undo all the good he was able to accomplish.

If you don't reward the good guys and punish the bad guys, you're going to end up with more bad guys. Ignorant Americans have demonstrated that they don't reward compromises, and people who take the moral high road. Trying to work together with the modern Republican party is like Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy's football. At some point Charlie has to realize that if he really wants to kick that football, he should kick Lucy in the ****, take the football from her, and go find someone else to play with.

The breakdown in bipartisanship in this country started with Republicans. They keep getting worse and worse, and they get away with it because Fox News tells their base that they're the good guys, and the average American is too stupid to know the difference. The only way we get back to unity and bipartisanship is if the Republican party wakes up and realizes what they've done and apologizes for it, or we the Democratic party destroys them entirely. As Democrats, we can only control one of those solutions.

Speaking of Charlie Brown, you know how their teacher talks? Yeah, that's all I'm hearing.

gdgyva · Apr 11, 2018

Cardinal said:
The rule of law means that nobody, even the country's richest and most powerful people, is above the law.

I understand that aspect

Though at times, i really wonder whether or not that is true

As ex military, and a guy that dealt with classified material on a daily basis, i have a fairly decent understanding of what would have happened to me if I had handled classified documents they way some people in DC have mishandled them. And since i KNOW it has been more than one person that has mishandled them, i wont put this on just a D or an R...both have had people screw it up. I just think Hillary's case was more brazen. But it wasnt handled at ALL like the rule of law is meant for everyone.

But that still doesnt mean our representatives forget why they are in DC...forget they are there to govern, and to legislate for everyone. That is my point.

DickBanks · Apr 12, 2018

gdgyva said:
Seems like for the last 35+ years or so, someone in DC has been under the microscope

I think it started with the Iran Contra crap and just never stopped

First one side, and then the other just opens investigation after investigation

Maybe it even started before then...and i only started paying attention at that point

Doesnt matter if it is a democrat or a republican....someone is in the hot seat for something

Is this what we have become?

No one even cares to work with the other side....lets get as much dirt as we can find, and throw it against the wall, and see what sticks...forget legislation...forget the people that sent you to DC...forget your MAIN task

Not saying some of the investigations werent warranted....but it seems like THAT is all we are doing....we arent solving any issues....the people we are sending to DC arent fixing the problems we have....

Maybe just maybe we need to remind them that their role is to GOVERN and to legislate...how i long for the days of Tip O'Neill and handshakes across the aisles

Don't think any of these investigations have risen to the level of working with a foreign power to influence a national election. Regardless of whether or not you believe it actually happen, it rises above anything seen since the Civil War.

DickBanks · Apr 12, 2018

holbritter said:
Speaking of Charlie Brown, you know how their teacher talks? Yeah, that's all I'm hearing.

Perhaps you should amble on over to Breitbart or Fox News--much shorter quips, easier to read, and instantly gratifying.

This forum tends to be somewhat more intellectual.

cuban smokes · Apr 12, 2018

it started loooooooooooong B4 Ronny RayGun & the Iran Contra crap.

the GOP has supplied this nation with some of the worst ****ing garbage for presidents, and from the get go, starting with that lying Abe Lincoln **** hole.

calamity · Apr 12, 2018

gdgyva said:
nice to know that you see every person with a conservative lean, or with a R next to their name an evil incarnate

i no longer have to wonder WHY the partisanship is out of control

mystery solved....

Well, your "Iran contra crap" comment was not exactly opening doors to reasonable bipartisan debate. Now was it?

gdgyva · Apr 12, 2018

DickBanks said:
Don't think any of these investigations have risen to the level of working with a foreign power to influence a national election. Regardless of whether or not you believe it actually happen, it rises above anything seen since the Civil War.

that part of the investigation has basically petered out

did Russia try to influence the election? yep

with their soviet owned station RT and big budget they tried to add as much chaos and confusion as possible

60 minutes did a great piece on them....

But tying that to the Trump administration is another thing entirely

It is a huge leap....and the evidence doesnt get you there yet....

Maybe Mueller has something we dont know...it is very possible

But based on what has been leaked/reported it would be difficult to charge Trump with anything connected to Russia

gdgyva · Apr 12, 2018

calamity said:
Well, your "Iran contra crap" comment was not exactly opening doors to reasonable bipartisan debate. Now was it?

that is when i first started paying attention to politics really

and it wasnt meant as anything derogatory....sorry if some took it that way

it was one of the first i guess you could call it scandals i can remember in DC...

not saying it was the first, just the first that i remember anything about

but it seems constant since....and it doesnt seem to matter if it is a D or an R in office

constant attacks from both sides...and no one getting a damn thing done

that is my point....my only point

holbritter · Apr 12, 2018

DickBanks said:
Perhaps you should amble on over to Breitbart or Fox News--much shorter quips, easier to read, and instantly gratifying.

This forum tends to be somewhat more intellectual.

Oh snap! You really got me

Checkerboard Strangler · Apr 12, 2018

MrWonka said:
SNIPPED
In each case, the Republican party told President Obama to go **** himself. They didn't care about bipartisanship, they didn't care about solving problems, they didn't want to work together because they were scared if they did it would make President Obama look like a great leader, and they'd never be able to beat him.

Instead, **** heads like Trump ran around the country trying to convince everyone that Obama was secretly a Muslim born in Kenya and that he had illegally stolen the presidency. They didn't just criticize his policies or offer their own, they riled up their racist base and used it's anger to take back Congress. Every time President Obama and Democrats tried to take the Moral high road the Republican party went lower, and how was the Democratic party rewarded for that? SNIPPED

The man has a point.

WORD UP

DickBanks · Apr 12, 2018

gdgyva said:
that is when i first started paying attention to politics really

and it wasnt meant as anything derogatory....sorry if some took it that way

it was one of the first i guess you could call it scandals i can remember in DC...

not saying it was the first, just the first that i remember anything about

but it seems constant since....and it doesnt seem to matter if it is a D or an R in office

constant attacks from both sides...and no one getting a damn thing done

that is my point....my only point

The issue with your statement is that you insinuate that this Russia thing is comparable to all these other investigations. Your opinion--nothing wrong with that.

However, I think that if you study those investigations and compare them to this one, I think that you will find those others pale in comparison to this one.

DickBanks · Apr 12, 2018

holbritter said:
Oh snap! You really got me

I didn't mean to "get you." It's just that by using the CB analogy, you're admitting that most of this is over your head. The kids don't understand what the adults are saying, so it sounds like jibberish to them.

I was offering you an "alternative forum."

late · Apr 12, 2018

Malcom Nance is a retired counter-inelligence officer that has written a good book on the Russia thing, Plot to Hack America. The problem, within the context of a forum, is that there is a LOT there, and more comes to light every damn week.

This is one of the biggest messes the country has ever seen. It dwarfs Watergate by an order of magnitude, and that's made even worse by the reality that Republicans these days lack a backbone. If we had the Republicans from the early 70s, Trump would be gone or in jail. Or up on treason charges.

Somewhat ironically, this crisis is the result of choices made back then. Nixon was corrupt, and they didn't keep him out of the Oval office. Then there was the Southern Strategy, that racism came to be the way Republicans did politics against most Americans, not just minorities.

Anyway, here's the book:
https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Hack-Am...3648&sr=8-1&keywords=the+plot+to+hack+america

Coincidentally, I got David Cay Johnston's new book, It's Worse than You Think from the library today. Johnston is a tax and business Prof who has been keeping tabs on Trump for a couple decades. After listening to him, I badly want Mueller to go after Trump's money laundering.

gdgyva · Apr 12, 2018

late said:
Malcom Nance is a retired counter-inelligence officer that has written a good book on the Russia thing, Plot to Hack America. The problem, within the context of a forum, is that there is a LOT there, and more comes to light every damn week.

This is one of the biggest messes the country has ever seen. It dwarfs Watergate by an order of magnitude, and that's made even worse by the reality that Republicans these days lack a backbone. If we had the Republicans from the early 70s, Trump would be gone or in jail. Or up on treason charges.

Somewhat ironically, this crisis is the result of choices made back then. Nixon was corrupt, and they didn't keep him out of the Oval office. Then there was the Southern Strategy, that racism came to be the way Republicans did politics against most Americans, not just minorities.

Anyway, here's the book:
https://www.amazon.com/Plot-Hack-Am...3648&sr=8-1&keywords=the+plot+to+hack+america

Coincidentally, I got David Cay Johnston's new book, It's Worse than You Think from the library today. Johnston is a tax and business Prof who has been keeping tabs on Trump for a couple decades. After listening to him, I badly want Mueller to go after Trump's money laundering.

please lay out specifically what exactly Trump has done with the Russians to merit this charge of treason

we will wait...

calamity · Apr 12, 2018

gdgyva said:
that is when i first started paying attention to politics really

and it wasnt meant as anything derogatory....sorry if some took it that way

it was one of the first i guess you could call it scandals i can remember in DC...

not saying it was the first, just the first that i remember anything about

but it seems constant since....and it doesnt seem to matter if it is a D or an R in office

constant attacks from both sides...and no one getting a damn thing done

that is my point....my only point

Well, I/C was not "crap." It was actually rather serious, as any trading of hostages for arms should be. And, I/C was certainly not the first investigation by any measure. Obviously that tiny thing called Watergate which preceded it cannot possibly be ignored.

However, I'll give ya this. It wasn't until Iran Contra that we had this thing called 24/7 news channels. And, of those, we have several now.

gdgyva · Apr 12, 2018

calamity said:
Well, I/C was not "crap." It was actually rather serious, as any trading of hostages for arms should be. And, I/C was certainly not the first investigation by any measure. Obviously that tiny thing called Watergate which preceded it cannot possibly be ignored.

However, I'll give ya this. It wasn't until Iran Contra that we had this thing called 24/7 news channels. And, of those, we have several now.

Ted Turners CNN headline news was probably what 2-3 years old

Almost forget that is when it started....

And now i am wondering if that hasnt contributed in a mighty way to all of this

Just seems we have gone off the rails in so many ways....

And i wonder if the train can be righted

And i was a kid during Watergate....middle school....dont remember much about that one

Gaugingcatenate · Apr 12, 2018

DickBanks said:
The issue with your statement is that you insinuate that this Russia thing is comparable to all these other investigations. Your opinion--nothing wrong with that.

However, I think that if you study those investigations and compare them to this one, I think that you will find those others pale in comparison to this one.

You mean like the others had at least some evidence of the crime committed? That would mean this one pales in comparison. You didnt just get it wrong, you got it completely backwards.

This one is like the Japanese fishing trawler fleet, casting nets far and wide in already overfished waters where they have no business being.

calamity · Apr 12, 2018

gdgyva said:
Ted Turners CNN headline news was probably what 2-3 years old

Almost forget that is when it started....

And now i am wondering if that hasnt contributed in a mighty way to all of this

Just seems we have gone off the rails in so many ways....

And i wonder if the train can be righted

And i was a kid during Watergate....middle school....dont remember much about that one

Yeah, I was 8 or 9 when it began. But, I read some news back then, and sometime around 1973 or so, it was always on the front page. Also, my family was always pretty political. So, I knew who Nixon was as early as 1968, when I was a real wee little lad--my aunt voted for him and my uncle wanted George Wallace. That sticks out.

We also did some project thing in school related to the impeachment. I have no idea what, but I remember the second or third grade teacher talking about it and the class writing something.

late · Apr 12, 2018

gdgyva said:
please lay out specifically what exactly Trump has done with the Russians to merit this charge of treason

we will wait...

That's up to Mueller.

My point is that the earlier generation would have responded to Trump the same way they responded to Nixon.

With their boot.

One investigation leads to another ad nauseum....

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