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Flake: GOP Might Not Deserve to Lead

NeverTrump

NeverTrump

Exposing GOP since 2015
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NeverTrumpGOP said:
hah. RINO. Coming from a Trumptard, that word is meaningless.
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Do you think this is the time for a third party? I've always been skeptical of third party chances, given their history in this country. Considering the present circumstances, I'm beginning to wonder if principled conservatives and moderate Republicans wouldn't be better off forming one. It might even draw some moderate Democrats, especially young people.
 
tres borrachos said:
And he's right. Cue the citizens of Trump Fan Nation coming in screaming that he's a RINO.
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It's gone farther than that. I've heard Trumpers claim that conservatives who are critical of Trump are actually liberals.
 
bearpoker said:
Do you think this is the time for a third party? I've always been skeptical of third party chances, given their history in this country. Considering the present circumstances, I'm beginning to wonder if principled conservatives and moderate Republicans wouldn't be better off forming one. It might even draw some moderate Democrats, especially young people.
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It is time, as I think the crazies from the previous third parties have all hijacked the GOP. So they can stay there and other parties should rise up to take on Trumpism.
 
Cycles are how things travel in an averaged out straight line. You spiral a football or bullet, business cycle is always ups and downs, macro economic cycles are ups and downs.

Maybe we hit the extremist limit with Trump, and we'll cycle back in to moderate, bi-partisan, sanity.

Normally moderate, reasonable, adults are pretty boring and people may not care about them (sadly). But given the clown show we have going on, suddenly moderate, reasonable adults are all mini-messiahs in contrast.
 
Winston said:
It's gone farther than that. I've heard Trumpers claim that conservatives who are critical of Trump are actually liberals.
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That's okay. Some of them tell me I wanted Hillary Clinton to be President. They confused me with Trump, who did, in fact, at one time want her to be President.
 
tres borrachos said:
That's okay. Some of them tell me I wanted Hillary Clinton to be President. They confused me with Trump, who did, in fact, at one time want her to be President.
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TurtleDude tells me that every time I make fun of his gun obsession. I have never supported that woman in my life. I think she's a pompous **s.
 
Mach said:
Cycles are how things travel in an averaged out straight line. You spiral a football or bullet, business cycle is always ups and downs, macro economic cycles are ups and downs.

Maybe we hit the extremist limit with Trump, and we'll cycle back in to moderate, bi-partisan, sanity.

Normally moderate, reasonable, adults are pretty boring and people may not care about them (sadly). But given the clown show we have going on, suddenly moderate, reasonable adults are all mini-messiahs in contrast.
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Unfortunately it took Trump for them to get enraged.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
Run Flake, Run. As an Independent. You won't win as a Republican.



https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/politics/jeff-flake-criticizes-gop-trump/index.html
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Trump has never tried to expand his base, to bring independents on board his so called Trump Train. Remember Trump won independents 46-42 over Clinton and because of the independent vote, the election. Today, 54% of all independent view Trump negatively, that is up 13 points from the end of January 2017. The question is, will independents turnout to vote against Trump and the GOP in the midterms because of their growing dislike of Trump? I think enough will to give the Democrats control of the House and probably giving the Arizona senate seat to the Democrats.

What's amazing is that most Republicans, Trump supporters in particular don't realize how much Trump's grating, obnoxious, egotistical, uncouth persona grates on those who aren't pro-Trumpers. Even when they support most of the things Trump does or is trying to accomplish. It's not that independents like the Democratic Party anymore than the Republican one. They don't. Only 19% of independent view the Democrats in congress favorably, 21% view Republicans in congress favorable. Both congressional parties are in the pits when it comes to independents. Total dislike of both. Questions 91A and B.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/zq33h2ipcl/econTabReport.pdf

Yet, a majority of independents will end up voting for the Democratic congressional candidates over the Republican ones. One simple reason, Donald Trump's persona. They view their vote as a vote against Trump, not a vote for the Democrats. I repeat, not a vote for the Democrats, their party or their agenda. But you can bet your bottom dollar, your ranch, that the democrats will take it as support for them when it isn't. If there was a viable third choice, an additional option, that third choice would win hands down. Such is the dislike of both major parties. They're hated. The worst part of that, neither major political cares whether they're hated or not. Both know they have a monopoly and there isn't any other choice.

How's this for a future prediction. This year, 2018 because of our disliked of Trump we give the Democrats control of congress. In 2020 because of disliked and anger towards the Democrats who will be in power in congress, we re-elect Trump in 2020. Much like what we did with Obama. We didn't like his policies in 2010, got angry at him and elected a Republican House. We got mad at the Republican House and re-elected Obama in 2012. History does repeat itself.

FYI, independents make up approximately 45% of the total electorate today. How goes a general election is now dependent on the independent vote. Independents have no say on whom is nominated, but they decide the general.
 
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Perotista said:
How's this for a future prediction. This year, 2018 because of our disliked of Trump we give the Democrats control of congress. In 2020 because of disliked and anger towards the Democrats who will be in power in congress, we re-elect Trump in 2020. Much like what we did with Obama. We didn't like his policies in 2010, got angry at him and elected a Republican House. We got mad at the Republican House and re-elected Obama in 2012. History does repeat itself.
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It's a distinct possibility.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
 
Perotista said:
One simple reason, Donald Trump's persona.
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There's also the other crazy candidates that the pro-trump people like bannon puts up to try and take over the party establishment. They are all nazis, racists, and conspiracy theorists and even though Trump has given the CT mainstream powers, those types of people still do not appeal to most people. Unless you are already one of them.
 
NeverTrumpGOP said:
There's also the other crazy candidates that the pro-trump people like bannon puts up to try and take over the party establishment. They are all nazis, racists, and conspiracy theorists and even though Trump has given the CT mainstream powers, those types of people still do not appeal to most people. Unless you are already one of them.
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The Republican Party has a history of nominating some far out wacko's. Moore in Alabama, Mourdock in Indiana, Aiken in Missouri, Miller in Alaska, Angle in Nevada, O'Donnell in New Jersey just sticking with the senate. All races that the GOP should have won before they nominated these wackos. The GOP was saved in Alaska when Murkowski ran as an independent an won over Miller, the Republican candidate and the democrat.

Without nominating wackos, the Republicans would have five more senate seats than they do now. It doesn't matter what faction one is within the party, if that party doesn't nominate someone who can win in the general, the nomination means nothing. Today, you're looking at an electorate that is less and less ideological, more non-affiliated with either party than in the past. More and more folks are leaving the very ideological, partisan major parties leaving them much smaller than in the past. Without a moderating influence of the center, center right and center left both parties once had. I suppose we will be getting more and more wackos from both parties going forward. Independents has grown from 30% 20 years ago to 45% today. When independents grow, that leaves less and less people who identify and choose both major parties nominees. Hence you end up with a Trump vs. Clinton or a Moore in Alabama etc.

Candidate most Americans don't want, but have to choose the one they least want to lose. The lesser of two evils.
 
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