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What is real solution to world's political and economic problems?

James972 said:
if so why is the liberal so afraid to tell us why the USA is a failure given it has 70% of all recent medical patents that provide the basis for the entire world's health care and given that we saved civilization through two world wars and now police the world.
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Read what I wrote, and try again.
 
spud_meister said:
Read what I wrote, and try again.
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if so why is the liberal so afraid to tell us why the USA is a failure given it has 70% of all recent medical patents that provide the basis for the entire world's health care and given that we saved civilization through two world wars and now police the world.
 
spud_meister said:
To expect it to work on an international scale is laughable.
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can the liberal put into words why he thinks it is laughable? Did you know having a reason is important?
 
James972 said:
if we gauge what other want and supply it we are advancing the interests of society, and the customers who altogether make up society.
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No, this commits the same error I pointed out earlier--there is a pretty vast difference between desire and interest, though this same mistake was made often enough by enlightenment thinkers. I'm not doing some good in the world by giving a nicotine addict another cigarette, however much he might want one. Plenty of folks might want a cheap automobile and wouldn't care if it spit literal poison (e.g. Zyklon-B) into the air as a byproduct of making it less expensive. But my producing such a product would not advance anyone's interests except perhaps my own--presumably I'd make enough to purchase a gas-mask for myself.

James972 said:
freedom is what the world could agree on. Liberalism is the only thing preventing it.
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Seems obviously false to me. Would you agree that I'm free to punch you in the nose as or when I feel like it? I certainly wouldn't agree that anyone, me included, should have that freedom. But why not? Presumably because such an action affects you in some undue detrimental way. But then, as there get to be more and more of us, more of our actions have undue detrimental effects on others.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
At best, we are now a mix of socialism, crony capitalism and capitalism. The OP seemed to have either missed that entirely or wishes to "fundamentally transform America" (MAGA?). Obviously we cannot let personal freedom run wild or we would have the law of the jungle - where might makes right and tribes make might (rule by glorified street gang?).

Yet, back to economics, we are letting too much power be given to the "job creators" (the latest term for the rich and powerful?) who buy (rent?) the government's (yet some still claim that they are beholden to us) representatives and if that starts turning into representation without taxation (on both the upper and lower ends of the economic spectrum) then we in the middle are bound to lose. My biggest concern is the flow of power (both governmental and economic) going to ever higher levels (from people to state government to federal government) controlled by ever fewer "representative" people.
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Yes, I think we're in fundamental agreement on that point. What I think our Constitution is supposed to do, at the very basic level, is prevent any one powerful entity from gaining undue levels of influence on individuals, who are most usually less powerful than whole organizations--whether that organization be government or something else. Over time, our institutions have eroded--or been perverted--such that government no longer serves the people who elect it. The problem I see is that if we get rid of government, or lessen its power, corporations would become even more tyrannical. I don't think there's an easy fix here.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Plenty of folks might want a cheap automobile and wouldn't care if it spit literal poison (e.g. Zyklon-B) into the air as a byproduct of making it less expensive. But my producing such a product would not advance anyone's interests.
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???? actually most people buy food clothing and shelter etc and have no desire to buy things that kill others . Do you have any idea what your point is?
 
ashurbanipal said:
Seems obviously false to me. Would you agree that I'm free to punch you in the nose.
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dear, when our founders talking about freedom they did not mean freedom to punch people in the nose. Do you understand??
 
ashurbanipal said:
Yes, I think we're in fundamental agreement on that point. What I think our Constitution is supposed to do, at the very basic level, is prevent any one powerful entity from gaining undue levels of influence on individuals,
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great so you are very very conservative since liberals want to expand govt power over individuals without end
 
ashurbanipal said:
corporations would become even more tyrannical. .
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who brainwashed you? there are 200 million corporations all over the world. How could 200 million be tyrannical?
how when they live and die based on how well they treat their workers and customers? Do you think nurses are tyrannical for trying to help their patients?
 
ashurbanipal said:
Yes, I think we're in fundamental agreement on that point. What I think our Constitution is supposed to do, at the very basic level, is prevent any one powerful entity from gaining undue levels of influence on individuals, who are most usually less powerful than whole organizations--whether that organization be government or something else. Over time, our institutions have eroded--or been perverted--such that government no longer serves the people who elect it. The problem I see is that if we get rid of government, or lessen its power, corporations would become even more tyrannical. I don't think there's an easy fix here.
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Yet we have folks like Elon Musk who do that now. That one guy has $billions in federal (and state) funds flowing directly to him with damn little (if any) accountability.
 
James972 said:
The solution for the USA's problems and to the world's problems is for everyone to agree. What can they agree on? Certainly not 100,000 forms of big liberal competing govts that have ruined human history but rather individual freedom and capitalism just as our Founders intended. Now do you see it?
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Your founders have nothing, NO THING, to do with the rest of the world. You have to deal with the legacy from your founders, the rest of the world is moving forward and not waiting. Up to you to keep up or not. Don't blame anyone else for your decisions.
Now do you understand?
 
James972 said:
The solution for the USA's problems and to the world's problems is for everyone to agree. What can they agree on? Certainly not 100,000 forms of big liberal competing govts that have ruined human history but rather individual freedom and capitalism just as our Founders intended. Now do you see it?
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Have Hillary move to another planet.
 
James972 said:
at this point maybe she is headed to jail. Bernie is the guy we now need to get rid of
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She'll corrupt the worst criminals, even those in solitary.
 
Grand Mal said:
Your founders have nothing, NO THING, to do with the rest of the world.
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Jefferson said our revolution was the shot heard around the world. So how do you figure he had nothing to do with the rest of the world? Do you think the Girl Scouts or the Jeffersonian Republicans converted the Chinese to Republican capitalism and thus created world peace?
 
James972 said:
The solution for the USA's problems and to the world's problems is for everyone to agree. What can they agree on? Certainly not 100,000 forms of big liberal competing govts that have ruined human history but rather individual freedom and capitalism just as our Founders intended. Now do you see it?
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Humans. As long as there are humans there will always be problems, so I guess we're kinda stuck.
 
James972 said:
can the liberal put into words why he thinks it is laughable? Did you know having a reason is important?
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Because the checks and balances against tyranny have been shown not to work. Look at the size of the government now compared to what the Founders intended, that's a clear failure.
 
James972 said:
if so why is the liberal so afraid to tell us why the USA is a failure given it has 70% of all recent medical patents that provide the basis for the entire world's health care and given that we saved civilization through two world wars and now police the world.
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I didn't say the USA was a failure. Read what I wrote, and try again.
 
spud_meister said:
Because the checks and balances against tyranny have been shown not to work. Look at the size of the government now compared to what the Founders intended, that's a clear failure.
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ok so it didn't work exactly as our Founders intended but then we just freed 1.4 billion in China from communism. Thats not bad at all. And, if we are to keep going we need to keep pushing for freedom and capitalism. It is the only hope for mankind. Do you understand?
 
James972 said:
ok so it didn't work exactly as our Founders intended but then we just freed 1.4 billion in China from communism. Thats not bad at all. And, if we are to keep going we need to keep pushing for freedom and capitalism. It is the only hope for mankind. Do you understand?
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So you're going to set up a libertarian world by government force? :lamo
 
James972 said:
Jefferson said our revolution was the shot heard around the world. So how do you figure he had nothing to do with the rest of the world? Do you think the Girl Scouts or the Jeffersonian Republicans converted the Chinese to Republican capitalism and thus created world peace?
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I'll tell you what your revolution had to do with the rest of the world. The American Revolution was the beginning of the triumph of liberalism. Those founders weren't the first liberals but they were probably the first effective ones, and they encouraged the rise of liberalism in Europe.
That's right. Your founders were liberals. The conservatives were hiding in the barn during the Revolutionary War, or booking passage to Nova Scotia. Do you remember any of the American History you learned in school? Do you know what a 'Tory' was? Well, to this day the Conservative Party in England and Scotland and Canada are called Tories. They call themselves Tories.
Now do you understand?
 
James972 said:
so you're saying we will have grown up when we realize that we must all agree on freedom and capitalism to have world peace and prosperity?
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LOL............interesting thought, hmmmm, will have to think further on that. Thanks for the food for thought.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yet we have folks like Elon Musk who do that now. That one guy has $billions in federal (and state) funds flowing directly to him with damn little (if any) accountability.
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Oh, sure. Government enables the tyranny of corporations, but I think corporations have captured government to effect that end, and so that's an indication they would take power if government folded tomorrow. Again, it's a very sticky wicket.
 
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