• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Senator McConnell Objects to Military Pay Protection.

Mycroft said:
There needs to be consequences for actions.
Click to expand...

So the Republicans decide to punish Service Members for the actions of Democrats. Got it.

Mycroft said:
Without consequences, the Democrats...or the Republicans...will shut down the government whenever they feel like it.

Is THAT what you want?
Click to expand...

I would like to get paid. The Democrats offered up a supposed win/win for the GOP. Keep the troops they allegedly love paid so they can take care of themselves and families and give off the appearance that they're willing to negotiate with the opposing party. Instead, they opted to look disgraceful for, in your own words "There needs to be consequences."

Shameful, just ****ing shameful.
 
CMPancake said:
So the Republicans decide to punish Service Members for the actions of Democrats. Got it.



I would like to get paid. The Democrats offered up a supposed win/win for the GOP. Keep the troops they allegedly love paid so they can take care of themselves and families and give off the appearance that they're willing to negotiate with the opposing party. Instead, they opted to look disgraceful for, in your own words "There needs to be consequences."

Shameful, just ****ing shameful.
Click to expand...

shrug...

If you want to get paid, then tell Schumer not to shut down the government.
 
CMPancake said:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4710181/senator-mcconnell-objects-military-pay-protection

Senator Majority leader Mitch McConnell rejected protecting the pay of Active Duty Service Members to assure they can still get paid to blow off their payment on their 40% APR interest rate Mustangs and Strippers. For perspective, in 2013 during the shutdown, the Obama administration continued pay for Military Service Members during the shutdown. For an administration and political party that makes a lot of bluster for their love of the military, why did the Senate Majority leader for the Republican party just give us the middle finger?
Click to expand...

There's is a lot to how the military views the different political parties which probably can be traced back to the Vietnam War. Trump won veterans 60-34 over Hillary. Veterans went for Romney 59-39 over Obama and McCain 54-44 over Obama. 2004 veterans went to Bush 57-41 and so it goes all the back to Vietnam. It's not just the presidential races, it is votes for congress also.

Prior to Vietnam most veterans were voting Democratic. The switch from a hawkish global view to a peace dove one is what drove the veterans away from the Democrats. That began in the late 60's with the Democrats siding with the protesters which many in the military took as siding against them. The nomination of George McGovern in 1972 and his peace at any cost stance about Vietnam was took as a surrender to those in the military. Then President Jimmy Carter oversaw the draw down of our military forces in what was termed the hollow military. Reagan rebuilt the military and veterans have been voting around 2-1 Republican ever since. It didn't help the Democrats nominated a draft dodger or evader as they put in 1992. That Bill Clinton also over saw more military draw downs and cut backs. There is a long history as to why veterans are basically republican.

today, a majority of us veterans still view the Democratic Party as the peace dove party. More or less anti-military, anti-defense. It is always the Democrats who want to take money away from the military for social use and welfare recipients. I really doubt what McConnell did will have any effect on the veteran's voting habits. You have Senator Schumer and Minority Leaders Pelosi front and center using this shutdown for illegal aliens instead of looking after those who defend and protect this country. It isn't going over well with veterans. They tend to look at this as they might not get paid because of some dumb illegal aliens the Democrats care much more about than those in service for this country.

For veterans to change back to voting Democratic, it will take a mind change within the Democratic Party. Vietnam brought about the mind change from Democrat to Republican back in the late 60's and early 70's. From the Great Depression until Vietnam, veterans were very much Democratic. Today it's the reverse.
 
Last edited:
NonoBadDog said:
I am puzzled about what you are referring to when you talk about, "their payment on their 40% APR interest rate Mustangs and Strippers."
Click to expand...

As the other guy already pointed out, the great majority of junior enlisted who are not married (most are not) don't have to worry about a place to sleep or how to afford putting food on the table. As a result, most junior enlisted tend to blow money on things they don't really need...and in case you're wondering, this is the voice of firsthand experience.
 
CMPancake said:
It's a small crack at the stigma that junior enlisted make poor financial decisions with their money.
Click to expand...

That stigma is there for good reason. Most junior enlisted aren't married, and so - since they don't have to worry about affording rent or food - tend to spend more of their money on things they don't need.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Pretty stupid comment considering that Obama got elected twice?
Click to expand...

At least Obama truly respected the military. The first sign of someone who truly respects the military is that he tries his best to NOT send them to (or at least tries to get them away from) where they don't need to be. Obama got us out of Iraq (where we NEVER needed to be - as Bush 43 would have known if he'd listened to his dad) and greatly reduced our forces in Afghanistan (where we no longer needed to be). When it came to Libya, we sent NO ground troops and were basically in a support role only. When it came to Syria, he shouldn't have sent any of our troops (not even the special forces he sent)...but all in all, we never got involved in Syria in a major way - besides, that's a charlie-fox where there is no victory to be had.

On the other hand, Bush 43 started two wars before Obama...and Your Boy Trump's damn near got us in a freaking nuclear war with the DPRK (and is considering a "bloody nose" limited strike against them - a bad idea of epic proportions against any nuclear power). Not only that, but under Obama we were still considered the preeminent nation on the planet - we were the world leader. Trump has forced us to abdicate that role - we are no longer the world leader. Now it's China and Germany. Now we're "just another nation", and no longer Reagan's "shining city on a hill". Good job, y'all. Thanks a lot.

One last thing - you know just as well as I do that one's supposed to turn over the watchstation to one's relief in better shape than when one assumed the watch. Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, and Obama did that. Bush 43 did not. Do you really think that Trump's going to turn over his watchstation in better shape than when he assumed the watch? Do you really?
 
reinoe said:
Glad to see that even liberals are finally starting to recognize that the failures of the legislature are due to the people in the legislature and not Trump. It's taken over a year but it's finally starting to sink in for some of the haters.
Click to expand...

Um, no. Before, Trump agreed that he'd sign a bipartisan deal on DACA if it was brought to him...and that was - and remains - the major sticking point when it comes to the budget. When the Republican AND Democratic leaders of the Senate brought him a truly bipartisan deal on DACA, he refused it. He broke his word to both of them, knowing full well that the Democrats were not going to agree to the budget without a deal on DACA.

No, guy, this one's not on either the Democrats or the Republicans - they BOTH did their part by working out a bipartisan deal on DACA. Trump broke his word to both of them...and that is why we now have a government shutdown. This one is 100% Trump's fault. The buck stops there.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I had two friends commit suicide under Obama's careful watch of disabled veterans.
Click to expand...

I'm rated 100% disabled (employable) - like you, I do have a clue when it comes to being a disabled veteran. If you'll recall, our veterans (disabled or not) have had higher rates of suicide ever since Vietnam...and YES, I know you know this - you've got to. What's more, thanks to Bush 43's illegal and unwarranted invasion of Iraq, our VA hospital system was overwhelmed with wounded...and with a growing realization of just how bad PTSD can be.

So it's flat wrong of you to put that on Obama - you know full well the problem started while he was literally still in diapers. But I get it - all you really wanted to do was to have something to blame him for.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I had two friends commit suicide under Obama's careful watch of disabled veterans.
Click to expand...

Are you blaming your friends' suicide on Obama? Seriously? Veterans suicide is off the charts, and has been for years. Just because your two friends died under the Obama administration doesn't mean jack ****. If you knew anything about suicide, you'd know that it has nothing to do with partisanship.

Geez, dude. I'm sorry about your friends, but this has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen.
 
apdst said:
The Democrats should stop putting illegal aliens ahead of the troops.
Click to expand...

'Scuse you, but the Dems tried - twice - to include making sure that the troops would get paid during the shutdown...and twice, your boys in the GOP kept that from being implemented. Sorry, guy, but that clearly makes it the GOP's fault for refusing to allow the troops to get paid during the shutdown.

And while the GOP does get the blame for the troops not getting paid, the shutdown itself is NOT the GOP's fault - nor is it the Dems. Trump promised he'd sign any bipartisan deal on DACA brought before him...and when McConnell and Schumer DID bring a truly bipartisan deal on DACA to Trump, what did he do? He refused it...with his "s**thole" remarks. That forced the Dems to make a choice whether to completely cave on DACA...or to stand up for what we know to be good and right.

Trump broke his word and forced us Dems to do something we really didn't want to do. This shutdown is not the GOP's fault or the Dems' fault...but 100% Trump's fault for breaking his word that he'd accept a bipartisan deal on DACA.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
'Scuse you, but the Dems tried - twice - to include making sure that the troops would get paid during the shutdown...and twice, your boys in the GOP kept that from being implemented. Sorry, guy, but that clearly makes it the GOP's fault for refusing to allow the troops to get paid during the shutdown.

And while the GOP does get the blame for the troops not getting paid, the shutdown itself is NOT the GOP's fault - nor is it the Dems. Trump promised he'd sign any bipartisan deal on DACA brought before him...and when McConnell and Schumer DID bring a truly bipartisan deal on DACA to Trump, what did he do? He refused it...with his "s**thole" remarks. That forced the Dems to make a choice whether to completely cave on DACA...or to stand up for what we know to be good and right.

Trump broke his word and forced us Dems to do something we really didn't want to do. This shutdown is not the GOP's fault or the Dems' fault...but 100% Trump's fault for breaking his word that he'd accept a bipartisan deal on DACA.
Click to expand...

But they still voted against the CR.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
I'm rated 100% disabled (employable) - like you, I do have a clue when it comes to being a disabled veteran. If you'll recall, our veterans (disabled or not) have had higher rates of suicide ever since Vietnam...and YES, I know you know this - you've got to. What's more, thanks to Bush 43's illegal and unwarranted invasion of Iraq, our VA hospital system was overwhelmed with wounded...and with a growing realization of just how bad PTSD can be.

So it's flat wrong of you to put that on Obama - you know full well the problem started while he was literally still in diapers. But I get it - all you really wanted to do was to have something to blame him for.
Click to expand...

^^ This times 1,000.
 
Perotista said:
There's is a lot to how the military views the different political parties which probably can be traced back to the Vietnam War. Trump won veterans 60-34 over Hillary. Veterans went for Romney 59-39 over Obama and McCain 54-44 over Obama. 2004 veterans went to Bush 57-41 and so it goes all the back to Vietnam. It's not just the presidential races, it is votes for congress also.

Prior to Vietnam most veterans were voting Democratic. The switch from a hawkish global view to a peace dove one is what drove the veterans away from the Democrats. That began in the late 60's with the Democrats siding with the protesters which many in the military took as siding against them. The nomination of George McGovern in 1972 and his peace at any cost stance about Vietnam was took as a surrender to those in the military. Then President Jimmy Carter oversaw the draw down of our military forces in what was termed the hollow military. Reagan rebuilt the military and veterans have been voting around 2-1 Republican ever since. It didn't help the Democrats nominated a draft dodger or evader as they put in 1992. That Bill Clinton also over saw more military draw downs and cut backs. There is a long history as to why veterans are basically republican.

today, a majority of us veterans still view the Democratic Party as the peace dove party. More or less anti-military, anti-defense. It is always the Democrats who want to take money away from the military for social use and welfare recipients. I really doubt what McConnell did will have any effect on the veteran's voting habits. You have Senator Schumer and Minority Leaders Pelosi front and center using this shutdown for illegal aliens instead of looking after those who defend and protect this country. It isn't going over well with veterans. They tend to look at this as they might not get paid because of some dumb illegal aliens the Democrats care much more about than those in service for this country.

For veterans to change back to voting Democratic, it will take a mind change within the Democratic Party. Vietnam brought about the mind change from Democrat to Republican back in the late 60's and early 70's. From the Great Depression until Vietnam, veterans were very much Democratic. Today it's the reverse.
Click to expand...

Uh-uh. The reason why the military used to vote Democratic before but not now is because before Nixon, both parties had strong contingents of liberals and conservatives - indeed, the 1964 Civil Rights Act could not have passed without Republican liberals. Before Nixon, the always-conservative Deep South (which is always overrepresented in our military) was called the Democratic "Solid South". Then when Nixon used his "Southern Strategy" to attract the "negrophobes", the Deep South began to shift from the Democratic party to the GOP. The Deep South - like the military - shifted from the Democratic party to the GOP because the nature of the parties themselves changed.

The military - which by its very nature is always more conservative than the general population (I believe this goes for all military through all history) - tends to vote for whichever party is the most conservative.

Oh, and one more thing - this retired Navy man wants you to read the following lines from a speech made by what y'all would today call a raving left-wing liberal: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."

Who was the stark-raving mad left-wing liberal who said that? Dwight D. Eisenhower. General Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was the commander of SHAEF in WWII. He knew something of war, of what our military needs...and he realized that a strong military is fragile indeed if supporting that military comes at the cost of unnecessarily depriving the basic infrastructure of the nation it serves.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
At least Obama truly respected the military. The first sign of someone who truly respects the military is that he tries his best to NOT send them to (or at least tries to get them away from) where they don't need to be. Obama got us out of Iraq (where we NEVER needed to be - as Bush 43 would have known if he'd listened to his dad) and greatly reduced our forces in Afghanistan (where we no longer needed to be). When it came to Libya, we sent NO ground troops and were basically in a support role only. When it came to Syria, he shouldn't have sent any of our troops (not even the special forces he sent)...but all in all, we never got involved in Syria in a major way - besides, that's a charlie-fox where there is no victory to be had.

On the other hand, Bush 43 started two wars before Obama...and Your Boy Trump's damn near got us in a freaking nuclear war with the DPRK (and is considering a "bloody nose" limited strike against them - a bad idea of epic proportions against any nuclear power). Not only that, but under Obama we were still considered the preeminent nation on the planet - we were the world leader. Trump has forced us to abdicate that role - we are no longer the world leader. Now it's China and Germany. Now we're "just another nation", and no longer Reagan's "shining city on a hill". Good job, y'all. Thanks a lot.

One last thing - you know just as well as I do that one's supposed to turn over the watchstation to one's relief in better shape than when one assumed the watch. Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, and Obama did that. Bush 43 did not. Do you really think that Trump's going to turn over his watchstation in better shape than when he assumed the watch? Do you really?
Click to expand...

I have never seen anyone exaggerate more than you do.
 
Superfly said:
Are you blaming your friends' suicide on Obama? Seriously? Veterans suicide is off the charts, and has been for years. Just because your two friends died under the Obama administration doesn't mean jack ****. If you knew anything about suicide, you'd know that it has nothing to do with partisanship.

Geez, dude. I'm sorry about your friends, but this has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen.
Click to expand...

About as serious as the nonsense about republicans disrespecting the military more than democrats..................which I was responding to......to begin with.

You see 20-30 ridiculous threads started on here by liberal hacks everyday ....................and say zilch!

You are a great team player!
 
RetiredUSN said:
About as serious as the nonsense about republicans disrespecting the military more than democrats..................which I was responding to......to begin with.

You see 20-30 ridiculous threads started on here by liberal hacks everyday ....................and say zilch!

You are a great team player!
Click to expand...

Tammy Duckworth is a case in point, where a liberal vet kicked cadet bone spur's ass with her titanium size six boot.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Tammy Duckworth is a case in point, where a liberal vet kicked cadet bone spur's ass with her titanium size six boot.
Click to expand...

She is a hack who used the Veterans Administration job as a ticket.

And veterans could care less what Manc Skipper thinks.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Tammy Duckworth is a case in point, where a liberal vet kicked cadet bone spur's ass with her titanium size six boot.
Click to expand...

She also turned a blind eye while vet's were being mistreated...........................ya................ a real ****ing hero!
 
RetiredUSN said:
About as serious as the nonsense about republicans disrespecting the military more than democrats..................which I was responding to......to begin with.

You see 20-30 ridiculous threads started on here by liberal hacks everyday ....................and say zilch!

You are a great team player!
Click to expand...

You ought to be ashamed, dishonoring the memory of your friends by using them as a political pawn.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
I wonder if you recognize the irony in what you just said.
Click to expand...

Nice counter, but it doesn't excuse they nonsense you throw out here everyday.

Especially with all those so called personal experiences that you ramble on about that would take 10 lifetimes for anyone else. :roll:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom