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Thread: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

  1. #21
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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If you have to make three machines to make a product, the costs go up and your jellybean costs more too. Your theory is that this increases GDP and is so positive. Increase the number of machines required to make your jellybean and the economy grows further and further with each piece of ne regulation. The society grows more and more, creates jobs and wages.

    You miss that you still only have only one jellybean but are investing in many more machines than the one single one you used originally. The price of you jellybean now has to cover the cost of producing and running all tjos machines you use the make jellybean making environmentally friendly, all those wonderful wages.

    You will no longer be in the class of folks that have a bowel of colourful beans on the coffee table, if you a worker in that now environmentally perfectly regulated jellybean production line.
    No, the corporate state never wants to pay anymore than they must, and workers in this society do not matter anymore, at all. First the power structure decided it no longer required the masses for production, then they decided they no longer required the masses for consumption either. Workers do not need real wages to benefit the substantial people any longer. So yeah, let 'em eat jelly beans while we fleece them and feed them lies.

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Getting rid of regulations is a lot like getting rid of traffic lights. On the one hand, having too many traffic lights in places that they aren't needed slows traffic and contributes to accidents. On the other hand, not having traffic lights where they are needed also slows traffic and contributes to accidents.

    Trying to pare back regulations to what existed years in the past is a lot like taking out all of a town's traffic lights that weren't there thirty or forty years ago without regard for the changing traffic patterns over that time.

    Imagine how it would be driving through your town with only the traffic lights that existed back in 1960.
    It is always about balance, but the american corporate state is unbalanced.

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Then cite a few so we know how much regulation reduces wages. Is it by cents per hour or dollars per hour? The research I've seen is that, in short, it depends. Just for example, for some reason wages in the highly regulated industrialized countries are higher than in China, Vietnam, etc. Even in this country, the lightly regulated deep south has lower wages than the highly regulated states along the coasts, so if there is a causal relationship, "regulations" are one of many factors affecting wages, and those other factors appear to dominate, with "regulations" playing a minor role.

    There is also no doubt 'regulations' increase the costs of dirty industries, but what they really do is appropriately assign costs to being dirty, as opposed to a system where the dirty industries are allowed to offload those costs onto others - negative externalities. But killing off (in the case of environmental regs) dirty industries in favor of more efficient, cleaner industries doesn't necessarily imply a lowering of wages or loss of jobs.



    That's true, or it at least is arguably true, but that's not an argument against 'regulation' but the failure of regulations, or in the alternative property rights, in those jurisdictions. China, for example, allows a billion+ people to pay the high costs of filthy air and water for the temporary benefit of manufacturers and coal fired plants producing cheap energy because the government in China has decided it's OK to kill a half million/year as the cost of economic growth and the people have no rights to sue or otherwise defend their rights.

    In this country, regulations or not, we're not going back to flaming rivers and cities so polluted you can't see across the street.
    How much does regulation reduce wages? Well, y hat will vrry much depend on the process being regulated, how it impacts costs, required qualifications etc. Some regulation will mean higher wages, if for instance the risk of doing business is reduced by eliminating arbitrariness of government decisions, which is one reason production of certain types are attracted to societies with reliable property rights.

    You are right that externalities of production can represent costs to other industries. Regulation can reduce costs of other production ie improve the circumstances of prodution of other products. We have seen this shift in action. Clean industries like banking have grown, while dirty industries like industrials have stagnated in the USA and been outsourced. This has meant wages did not increase in the latter, while the did in the earlier.

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    How much does regulation reduce wages? Well, y hat will vrry much depend on the process being regulated, how it impacts costs, required qualifications etc. Some regulation will mean higher wages, if for instance the risk of doing business is reduced by eliminating arbitrariness of government decisions, which is one reason production of certain types are attracted to societies with reliable property rights.

    You are right that externalities of production can represent costs to other industries. Regulation can reduce costs of other production ie improve the circumstances of prodution of other products. We have seen this shift in action. Clean industries like banking have grown, while dirty industries like industrials have stagnated in the USA and been outsourced. This has meant wages did not increase in the latter, while the did in the earlier.
    OK, not sure how that comment squares with "Well, those regulations are part of the reason wages have not increased as much as many would have wanted. You cannot have your cake and eat it, you know." but I mostly agree so will leave it there.

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    That's true. I've never said that there shouldn't be any regulations. However, there need to be regulations based on common sense vice ideology (stupidity).

    A perfect example would be classifying carbon dioxide a poison. If that were true, we would all be dead; plants, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    You people are my problem. Youre a major component of whats wrong with this country.

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    And many conservatives will cheer this, big corporations money is well spent convincing these people that getting rid of environmental regulations will directly benefit them when it does the opposite.

    It's amazing that some people are convinced that being "pro-business" at all costs isn't going to affect them negatively.

    If 2008 didn't convince people of that, nothing will.

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton Lum View Post
    It is always about balance, but the american corporate state is unbalanced.
    Yes, and so is our president.


    "Hes now president for life. President for life. And hes great. Trump added, I think its great. Maybe well give that a shot someday. -Trump speaking of Xi Jinping

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, and so is our president.
    I do not see Don as the problem, merely a symptom out of control.

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton Lum View Post
    I do not see Don as the problem, merely a symptom out of control.
    Yes, electing a president who is unbalanced is a symptom of something, but I'm not sure just what.


    "Hes now president for life. President for life. And hes great. Trump added, I think its great. Maybe well give that a shot someday. -Trump speaking of Xi Jinping

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    Re: Trump vows to kill 50 years of federal protections

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, electing a president who is unbalanced is a symptom of something, but I'm not sure just what.
    An unbalanced society, economic system and political system approaching 3rd world ****hole wealth disparity.

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