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Statutory Annual leave in 100s of other Nations but not in the United States

Aristaeus said:
Meh. Corporate America has done worse than every government in the world when it comes to paid annual leave
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Well I agree. A work force is part of the nation's wealth. It should be up to a nation how the work force is utilized as way over 150 other nation's have decided upon. But not America.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Ah - I see - you're just judging a system you are not a part of. Got it.

However, what you're missing is that anyone, and I mean virtually anyone in the US with a little bit of gumption, can break free of the "worker" mold and strike out on his own. That's why the US is still the greatest nation in the world and why people will die trying to get here -- because we offer something many other nations do not -- greater freedom.

In my opinion, the world is populated with two types of people, the "makers" and the "takers." The US is a great place for the makers, who start businesses, create jobs, provide ever-increasing products and services. But, the takers, those who go complacently to their 9-to-5 office jobs (or burger-flipping jobs), those who watch the clock and try to do as little as they can to draw their paychecks, those who whine about not getting enough days off, are gaining a foothold. A smaller foothold here in the States than in other places, but, they're making inroads.

There's an undeniable problem with that -- when the takers grow stronger than the makers, the economy crashes, as it did in Italy. It can't be helped. When governments place the value of the takers over the value of the makers, they are already on a down slide. It's only a matter of time.

Ask Italy.
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Does 1929 mean anything thing to you? This was a time following the (GILDED AGE) A time when corporate control over the working class was yielded with an IRON FIRST and literally with a gun. And I can document that if you wish me to. Yet ,what did we get. The Great Depression. That was just one of the great success stories of unchecked corporate power.
 
Rich123 said:
Does 1929 mean anything thing to you? This was a time following the (GILDED AGE) A time when corporate control over the working class was yielded with an IRON FIRST and literally with a gun. And I can document that if you wish me to. Yet ,what did we get. The Great Depression. That was just one of the great success stories of unchecked corporate power.
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There are many factors that led to the Great Depression, but that one did not play an active role.
 
RetiredUSN said:
If you don't like your benefits from a certain employer then carry your happy self down the road.

Overall......many or most established employers offer pretty good leave/vacation benefits according the the labor statistics.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-2/paid-leave-in-private-industry-over-the-past-20-years.htm

View attachment 67226526
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Yes many do. But many more offer nothing at all. But more germane to the heart of this subject is, who should control the a countries resource. The corporation are utilizing a portion of the nation's wealth when they employ someone. If that is part of a nation's assets then it should be up to the nation as to how that asset is utilized.
 
Americans should have more time off, IMO. if the rest of the first world can do it, then so can we.
 
Rich123 said:
Well I have counted way over 150 other countries before I stopped counting that have made this transition to legally mandate certain benefits for their work force.
When you think about it, a work force is part of the Commons. Just like a natural resource is part of the commons. A government that is (of the people and for the people) should certainly have some input as to how that (HUMAN RESOURCE) is utilized. Don't you all agree with that premise?
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no

government should in NO way be able to tell a person how to run their business

other than safety standards, and child labor laws....

buyer of labor and seller of labor agree to terms....it is no one elses business
 
Rich123 said:
Does 1929 mean anything thing to you? This was a time following the (GILDED AGE) A time when corporate control over the working class was yielded with an IRON FIRST and literally with a gun. And I can document that if you wish me to. Yet ,what did we get. The Great Depression. That was just one of the great success stories of unchecked corporate power.
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I think you might have to concentrate on other factors leading to the 1929 bubble, than unchecked corporate prowess to explain it.
 
Rich123 said:
Well ,I've worked hard all my life. So for you to pretend to know otherwise is unkind and unfair.
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I don't mean to be unkind -- sorry.

Secondly, If all American's were owners of businesses then the potential for consumers would surely suffer. Thirdly not all people are endowed with the same abilities. While we are not all capable of doing the same things, we all have the same needs. The "Kinder and Gentler country" That was so affectionately referred by George H.W. Bush seems to fit the notion that we care for ( the least of thee.)
Finally, I'm 67 years old. I'm not in any way able to benefit from any such policies even if they were enacted today.
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I understand your point but let me make one as well. I don't believe that any of us are born indebted to others, nor are we born having others indebted to us. I believe we all make our own way in life, and that when we abdicate our choices to a government, we lose a measure of our decision-making power. People for thousands of years have migrated when the work/food in a specific area was not adequate, but today, we have people demanding that others (employers) make it adequate for them. That takes away that person's humanity -- that person's choice.

It's my firm belief that no one owes anyone else anything -- unless they've bargained in trade. If I hire you to perform a specific job for "X" amount of money -- and you do -- I owe you that money. But, if you decide that you want something different from our original bargain -- I believe you should set out on a different path -- and pursue your goals, not try to force me to cave in.
 
Helix said:
Americans should have more time off, IMO. if the rest of the first world can do it, then so can we.
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Then take the time off. Where is your problem? But to make real money my experience suggests that infrastructure aside, you will be looking more at a ten hour day than one of 7 hours. My observations were garnered working in US, French, British and German companies and doing business with virtually all markets in the EU.
 
joG said:
Then take the time off. Where is your problem? But to make real money my experience suggests that infrastructure aside, you will be looking more at a ten hour day than one of 7 hours. My observations were garnered working in US, French, British and German companies and doing business with virtually all markets in the EU.
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i don't see a good reason that workers in the US should have less benefits than the rest of the first world.
 
Rich123 said:
Well again I'll tell you that due to my age, any such reversal of public policy couldn't possibly benefit me.
Secondly I have worked hard all my life. So please don't judge when you know nothing of which you speak.
Thirdly; I think,You and Mr. Scrooge would make ideal friends
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I just can't stand the "entitlement mentality."

I think it is a pathetic human trait.

I don't like Scrooges either, and I am a very charitable person. I just despise those who demand charity. My money, my choice what I do with it.
 
Helix said:
i don't see a good reason that workers in the US should have less benefits than the rest of the first world.
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As I said, take time off, if you want. It will cost you income as it does elsewhere. When I was with the French company people would cheat on their 35 hours week in Paris or more likely move to the London office, if they wanted to earn a decent income. They mostly let ten or fifteen days leave laps. Just look at Macron. He is desperately trying to reduce the cost of employing people to reduce the country’s structural unemployment.

Let’s face it. The great social democratic experiment of the last century has turned in poor results and the report card says “no” to most of the labor benefits and social programs. Germany slashed many such benefits openly in Schrôder’s 2010 labor reforms and less publicly by cutting health care supply and rejiggering the pension system by extending life work time and reducing benefits . But they were just early. Look at Finland that is finding social programs unsustainable and is experimenting with a minimum income in order to drastically reduce the costs. The social state became a dinosaur and is going as quickly as politicians can handle fearing the wrath of over subsidized voters.
 
HowardBThiname said:
So, quit your job and start your own business instead of whining. That's what I did -- years ago. It was a lot of hard work at first, 60-80 hour weeks, but now, I take off for a month at a time if I like and I've traveled to all the places I wanted to travel. You can do that when you get off your butt and realize that your life is in your hands, not the hands of some employer.

It takes initiative but the rewards are great.
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I think we can close the thread now. This is all that needs to be said.
 
Rich123 said:
Well ,I've worked hard all my life. So for you to pretend to know otherwise is unkind and unfair. Secondly, If all American's were owners of businesses then the potential for consumers would surely suffer. Thirdly not all people are endowed with the same abilities. While we are not all capable of doing the same things, we all have the same needs. The "Kinder and Gentler country" That was so affectionately referred by George H.W. Bush seems to fit the notion that we care for ( the least of thee.)
Finally, I'm 67 years old. I'm not in any way able to benefit from any such policies even if they were enacted today.
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You worked hard. So what? Most normal people do. You want a pat on the head? You settled for what you had. I am not changing my life to subsidize someone who doesn't have the same ambition as me. I bust my ass 80-120 hours a week making my money, running my enterprises. I aint especially smart, but I defy people to try and out work me. I earned what I got, so I can enjoy the fruits of my very extensive labors, and if people think I owe them because I am successful they get on their knees and kiss my hairy pink pimply ass first. Success in this country is some combination of luck, brains, ambition, and hard work. You want success that's what you need. Three of those you control. You look at most everyone in this country that are successful, and you will find a vast majority work their asses off. 40 hours is a vacation to them. This op is just a bunch of complaining from whiny bitchy lazy little girls who want things handed to them on a silver platter. They can bask in the full moon of my greatness. :moon:
 
joG said:
As I said, take time off, if you want. It will cost you income as it does elsewhere. When I was with the French company people would cheat on their 35 hours week in Paris or more likely move to the London office, if they wanted to earn a decent income. They mostly let ten or fifteen days leave laps. Just look at Macron. He is desperately trying to reduce the cost of employing people to reduce the country’s structural unemployment.

Let’s face it. The great social democratic experiment of the last century has turned in poor results and the report card says “no” to most of the labor benefits and social programs. Germany slashed many such benefits openly in Schrôder’s 2010 labor reforms and less publicly by cutting health care supply and rejiggering the pension system by extending life work time and reducing benefits . But they were just early. Look at Finland that is finding social programs unsustainable and is experimenting with a minimum income in order to drastically reduce the costs. The social state became a dinosaur and is going as quickly as politicians can handle fearing the wrath of over subsidized voters.
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i don't see anything in this post that convinces me that health care should be tied to specific employment or that the average US worker shouldn't enjoy the same amount of vacation as the rest of the first world.
 
Aristaeus said:
The small government theory and an idolisation of corporations and the free market in America means that Americans will get 10 days if they are lucky (many get 0), while the rest of the world gets a guaranteed period of 14-30 days.
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How much annual leave is a dairy farmer guaranteed?

How about a small business owner whose business is barely breaking even while he is working 365 days a year 12 hours a day?

His taxes are too high leave to enough money at the end of the year to modernize and increase his efficiency; how much time off should the people he hires be "guaranteed?"

If employees don't like the vacation and time off policy why cant they change employers or even make their own businesses?
 
Helix said:
i don't see anything in this post that convinces me that health care should be tied to specific employment or that the average US worker shouldn't enjoy the same amount of vacation as the rest of the first world.
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I like the socialist systems where everyone pretends to work and the government pretends to pay them.
 
SirGareth said:
I like the socialist systems where everyone pretends to work and the government pretends to pay them.
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i didn't argue for giving the means of production to the workers. i suppose we could discuss the pros and cons of that, but i suspect that we'd end up on the same side.
 
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Rich123 said:
Yes many do. But many more offer nothing at all. But more germane to the heart of this subject is, who should control the a countries resource. The corporation are utilizing a portion of the nation's wealth when they employ someone. If that is part of a nation's assets then it should be up to the nation as to how that asset is utilized.
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What national resources is a corporation using when they employ someone?
 
Helix said:
i don't see anything in this post that convinces me that health care should be tied to specific employment or that the average US worker shouldn't enjoy the same amount of vacation as the rest of the first world.
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Interesting wording.

"the average US worker"

Really?

The average American has one testicle and one breast.

Averages are a poor way to judge they type of remedies that are looked for.

I'm curious what a better phrasing would be for your intended message?

If 20% of us workers get no vacation time, 20% get 1 week, 20% get 3 weeks, then 10% for each of the next successive weeks off... The average American gets 2.4 weeks off, even though 20% get no vacation.
 
gdgyva said:
no

government should in NO way be able to tell a person how to run their business

other than safety standards, and child labor laws....

buyer of labor and seller of labor agree to terms....it is no one elses business
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Except the power is disproportionately in the hands of the employer. It is not an equal relationship.
 
Somerville said:
Sounds great, where did you find this happening?
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Not here in the USA but our Soviet Socialist friends were always a rich source of such profundities:

We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us! (A joke that circulated freely in factories and other places of state-run employment.)


Q: How do you deal with mice in the Kremlin?
A: Put up a sign saying "collective farm". Then half the mice will starve, and the rest will run away.


A man walks into a shop and asks, "You wouldn't happen to have fish, would you?". The shop assistant replies, "You've got it wrong – ours is a butcher's shop: we wouldn't happen to have meat. You're looking for the fish shop across the road. There they wouldn't happen to have fish!"


Q: Which is more useful – newspapers or television?
A: Newspapers, of course. You can't wrap herring in a TV. (Variation: "You can't wipe your ass with a TV" – a reference to the shortage of toilet paper in USSR, which forced people to use newspapers instead.)


An American dog, a Polish dog and a Soviet dog sit together. The American dog says 'In my country if you bark long enough, you will be heard and given some meat', the Polish dog replies 'What is "meat"?' and the Soviet dog says 'What is "bark"?'.


Q: What is the difference between the Constitutions of the USA and USSR? Both of them guarantee freedom of speech.
A: Yes, but the Constitution of the USA also guarantees freedom after the speech.


Five precepts of the Soviet intelligentsia (intellectuals):
Don't think.
If you think, then don't speak.
If you think and speak, then don't write.
If you think, speak and write, then don't sign.
If you think, speak, write and sign, then don't be surprised.


Every morning a man would come up to the newspaper stand, and buy a copy of Pravda, look at the front page and then toss it angrily into the nearby bin. The newspaper-seller was intrigued. "Excuse me," he said to the man, "Every morning you buy a copy of Pravda from me and chuck it in the bin without even unfolding it. What do you buy it for?" "I'm only interested in the front page,' replied the man. "I'm looking out for an obituary." – "But you don't get obituaries on the front page!" – "I assure you, this one will be on the front page."


etc etc hundreds of such aphorisms from the people who really understood socialism.
 
Aristaeus said:
Except the power is disproportionately in the hands of the employer. It is not an equal relationship.
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My employers were all required to give two weeks severance pay.

I was never required to give two weeks notice.

How is this unequal?

I really think that what you are trying to say is that you consider yourself inferior, I never had that problem.

I had the supreme power to withhold my value to my employer in the flash of a moment. He had to pay me for two weeks after he decided he didn't want my valuable service to him any longer. It is unequal but not in the way you are dreaming.
 
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