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OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?


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eohrnberger

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OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

Yes / No
Leaning Yes / Leaning No
Other: Elaborate
 
OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

Yes / No
Leaning Yes / Leaning No
Other: Elaborate

It's a similar strategy the Dems employed in 2004 and 2006. All the GOP has to do is not shoot themselves in the foot. Fortunately for the Dems, the GOP are experts at shooting themselves in the foot. For example, the failure to legislatively repeal the ACA. They can't realistically attempt to repeal it some 70+ times while a Dem is president and not expect fallout when they refuse to pass it once when there's a GOP president. Granted I know it was all political theater but it was also an unnecessary self-inflicted wound.

All they have to do is pass an infrastructure bill by mid 2018 and they SHOULD be fine. But who can say. The GOP don't self-sabotage like Dems but the possibility is always there.
 
It's a similar strategy the Dems employed in 2004 and 2006. All the GOP has to do is not shoot themselves in the foot. Fortunately for the Dems, the GOP are experts at shooting themselves in the foot. For example, the failure to legislatively repeal the ACA. They can't realistically attempt to repeal it some 70+ times while a Dem is president and not expect fallout when they refuse to pass it once when there's a GOP president. Granted I know it was all political theater but it was also an unnecessary self-inflicted wound.

All they have to do is pass an infrastructure bill by mid 2018 and they SHOULD be fine. But who can say. The GOP don't self-sabotage like Dems but the possibility is always there.

True, the GOP don't self-sabotage like Dems, they have different methods of self-sabotage unique unto themselves.
 
Dems got nothing. They got time to fabricate some kind of BS platform before the next elections but right now, they just seem happy staying below the radar out of the fracas.

Right now, they don't need nothing. Trump's giving them all they need.
 
A quick Google search and you can see which of the congressional Dems are pushing this.

Interesting to note, that they also appear to be some of the least productive, in terms of legislation introduced and / or co-sponsored.

Based on the list on the Wikipedia page, appears to be about once a month.

[h=1]Efforts to impeach Donald Trump[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Efforts to start the process of impeachment against U.S. President Donald Trump, who took office in 2017, have been initiated by U.S. Representatives Al Green andBrad Sherman, both Democrats.[1][2] Other people and groups have asserted that Trump has engaged in impeachable activity during his presidency.[3][4] Talk of impeachment began before Trump took office. [5][6]. Efforts began after a series of events in May 2017.[7][8][9] The likelihood of impeachment during 2017–18 is seen as remote, since Republicans control both the House and the Senate in the 115th United States Congress.[10][11][nb 1]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Donald_Trump

The congressional democrats criticized the repeated attempts of the House Republicans to repeal ObamaCare, wouldn't the same criticism apply here?
 
True, the GOP don't self-sabotage like Dems, they have different methods of self-sabotage unique unto themselves.

Are you kidding me? Trump ran on a "promise" to cut taxes (now claims to have done that), spend $1T on infrastructure, spend more on the military, enact TrumpCare (ObamaCare 2.0?) that would cover everybody (exactly how was never addressed) and never once said anything concrete about lowering the deficit or national debt (other than his usual BS on the matter of the federal deficit an national debt saying that it would be "wiped out within a few decades" by "winnning").
 
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I do agree if Dems place their entire election hopes on opposition to Trump, they may very well come up short but that depends on if there's a massive market correction in the mean time or if Trump starts a pointless and unnecessary war etc.

Dems need to have a message but I think, the last election showed Americans are more progressive than Trump supporters will give the country credit for, yes Trump won but more people, by a pretty healthy margin agreed with and voted for Hillary.

The problem is, Obama 08 genuinely made people feel hopeful that things in America could finally change because it is actually an extreme minority in America, but a powerful one that stands in the way of meaningful change in America, whether that be UHC or whatever... But I think alot of Dem voters realized that, if even someone with the tenacity, the optimism, the charisma of Obama couldn't succeed in breaking Washington to actually accomplish things for everyday people, who could?

No one.

And that's because Washington doesn't serve every day people and neither do most state legislatures, they serve their donors and big corporations and that does go for both parties.

And ironically while many Conservatives will agree with me on that point, they will also largely defend Citizens United which made this problem exponentially worse because it, in essence legalized bribery and unless that decision is overturned and that's unlikely to happen... The situation will only get worse and while you all remain on your Republican/Democrat hamster wheel, the country sinks further into the abyss, most of the wealth rises to the top which Trump just made exponentially worse and Big Corporations pick the meat and bones away from the rest of the population and leave it decimated.
 
Are you kidding me? Trump ran on a "promise" to cut taxes (now claims to have done that), spend $1T on infrastructure, spend more on the military, enact TrumpCare (ObamaCare 2.0?) that would cover everybody (exactly how was never addressed) and never once said anything concrete about lowering the deficit or national debt (other than his usual BS on the matter of the federal deficit an national debt saying that it would be "wiped out within a few decades" by "winnning").

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the self-sabotage methods between the Democrat party and the Republican party are more similar than dissimilar. Correct?

It would be a fair observation that there are similarities, but I'd suspect that there would also be differences, unique unto each of them.
 
OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

Yes / No
Leaning Yes / Leaning No
Other: Elaborate

Hmmmm...let me see here. Under Obama, we had by far the longest stretch of private-sector job growth in ALL American history, never mind the fact that on the day he took the job, he faced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, faced not one, but TWO highly unpopular wars, AND had to deal with the worst degree of political opposition faced by any president since Lincoln. Yet in your world, we never did anything good or right!

Um, yeah, we DO have a message - it's called PROGRESS. Under Obama, we cut the deficit in half (though conservatives seem to not know the difference between "deficit" and "debt" e.g. Cheney's quote: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter")...whereas now that the GOP controls the whole doggone government, you're blowing up the deficit by at least $1.5 trillion dollars over the next decade. Our message is also SCIENCE - you know, the "S"-word that American conservatives are so offended by...since the rest of the planet - every single nation except for America is sticking by the Paris Accords, and the overwhelming majority of scientists (including almost all the climatologists) strongly agree concerning global warming. But then, why should we be surprised since conservatives don't think college is worth it anymore 'cause education isn't toeing the conservative dogma line...

...which, btw, is how we got to the GOP enthusiastically approving department heads with precisely ZERO experience in those departments! WE put in department heads with PhD's and long years of experience in those fields...but YOU put in a brain surgeon in charge of HUD, a billionaire with NO public education experience in charge of our Department of Education, a governor in charge of the Department of Energy who had publicly stated he wanted to get RID of the Department of Energy - and who didn't know that the DOE is what oversees all our nuclear weapons! Oh, and let's not forget the guys that Your Boy Trump nominated for lifetime judgeships who were deemed NOT QUALIFIED by the American Bar Association...including one idiot who literally had LESS courtroom experience as an attorney than I do! Why the heck do you think people are looking at the GOP as the "party of stupid"? Because y'all are being WILLFULLY stupid!

The message of the Democratic party is PROGRESS - work WITH the rest of the planet, and lead by example and by noblesse oblige...

whereas the message of the GOP is "Burn it ALL down!" - get rid of the Paris Accord, get rid of the TPP, get rid of the Affordable Care Act, get rid of the United Nations, and tear down the freaking Statue of Liberty since it represents our tradition as a nation of IMMIGRANTS.
 
I do agree if Dems place their entire election hopes on opposition to Trump, they may very well come up short but that depends on if there's a massive market correction in the mean time or if Trump starts a pointless and unnecessary war etc.

Dems need to have a message but I think, the last election showed Americans are more progressive than Trump supporters will give the country credit for, yes Trump won but more people, by a pretty healthy margin agreed with and voted for Hillary.

The problem is, Obama 08 genuinely made people feel hopeful that things in America could finally change because it is actually an extreme minority in America, but a powerful one that stands in the way of meaningful change in America, whether that be UHC or whatever... But I think alot of Dem voters realized that, if even someone with the tenacity, the optimism, the charisma of Obama couldn't succeed in breaking Washington to actually accomplish things for everyday people, who could?

No one.

And that's because Washington doesn't serve every day people and neither do most state legislatures, they serve their donors and big corporations and that does go for both parties.

And ironically while many Conservatives will agree with me on that point, they will also largely defend Citizens United which made this problem exponentially worse because it, in essence legalized bribery and unless that decision is overturned and that's unlikely to happen... The situation will only get worse and while you all remain on your Republican/Democrat hamster wheel, the country sinks further into the abyss, most of the wealth rises to the top which Trump just made exponentially worse and Big Corporations pick the meat and bones away from the rest of the population and leave it decimated.

Your statement on the DC entrenched political elite, I'd agree with. It is going to take quite a bit of inertia for change to overcome the inertia that doesn't want that change, complicated by those that don't want the change are in positions of power in DC.

However.

"Obama 08 genuinely made people feel hopeful that things in America could finally change"
I don't agree with your assessment of this. There were quite a number of people that hunkered down with the aim to just survive the Obama term, and this was clearly visible with the lack of economic enthusiasm driven by his policies. Now, you could say that it was related to the financial collapse, and you'd be right, but the same lack of economic enthusiasm in his second term as well? I rather doubt that.
 
So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the self-sabotage methods between the Democrat party and the Republican party are more similar than dissimilar. Correct?

It would be a fair observation that there are similarities, but I'd suspect that there would also be differences, unique unto each of them.

The successful politician is one that claims to be for all three sides of a given issue and yet somewhat against it - but that actually does nothing on that issue. Once you propose, or vote for, legislation on that issue then you have a record which your opponents can (and likely will) use against you.

How can republicants, with a straight face, tell you that they are for repeal and replacement of PPACA when they did nothing other than to remove the individual mandate tax penalty while knowing that would increase "private" premium prices? If you think, even for one minute, that the demorats will not use rising MCI premiums and a rising deficit to bash the republicants then you likely have been into the (spiked?) Kool-aid.

Trump is making another huge mistake by constantly pointing to the stock market as being the true measure of his (and, by extension, the republicants) wonderfulness. It is an extremely bad bet to count on the stock market continuing to rise, much less not dropping, before the 2018 elections. The stock market reacts to world events, many of which Trump has no control over.
 
Hmmmm...let me see here. Under Obama, we had by far the longest stretch of private-sector job growth in ALL American history, never mind the fact that on the day he took the job, he faced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, faced not one, but TWO highly unpopular wars, AND had to deal with the worst degree of political opposition faced by any president since Lincoln. Yet in your world, we never did anything good or right!

Um, yeah, we DO have a message - it's called PROGRESS. Under Obama, we cut the deficit in half (though conservatives seem to not know the difference between "deficit" and "debt" e.g. Cheney's quote: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter")...whereas now that the GOP controls the whole doggone government, you're blowing up the deficit by at least $1.5 trillion dollars over the next decade. Our message is also SCIENCE - you know, the "S"-word that American conservatives are so offended by...since the rest of the planet - every single nation except for America is sticking by the Paris Accords, and the overwhelming majority of scientists (including almost all the climatologists) strongly agree concerning global warming. But then, why should we be surprised since conservatives don't think college is worth it anymore 'cause education isn't toeing the conservative dogma line...

...which, btw, is how we got to the GOP enthusiastically approving department heads with precisely ZERO experience in those departments! WE put in department heads with PhD's and long years of experience in those fields...but YOU put in a brain surgeon in charge of HUD, a billionaire with NO public education experience in charge of our Department of Education, a governor in charge of the Department of Energy who had publicly stated he wanted to get RID of the Department of Energy - and who didn't know that the DOE is what oversees all our nuclear weapons! Oh, and let's not forget the guys that Your Boy Trump nominated for lifetime judgeships who were deemed NOT QUALIFIED by the American Bar Association...including one idiot who literally had LESS courtroom experience as an attorney than I do! Why the heck do you think people are looking at the GOP as the "party of stupid"? Because y'all are being WILLFULLY stupid!

The message of the Democratic party is PROGRESS - work WITH the rest of the planet, and lead by example and by noblesse oblige...

whereas the message of the GOP is "Burn it ALL down!" - get rid of the Paris Accord, get rid of the TPP, get rid of the Affordable Care Act, get rid of the United Nations, and tear down the freaking Statue of Liberty since it represents our tradition as a nation of IMMIGRANTS.

If you are equating the progressive movement with progress, I'd have to disagree, I wouldn't call the progressive agenda as progress. I know that you'll disagree.

PhD's vs other experience, that's academic theory vs. practical experience. Since when does academic theory do well in the real world? Recall the number of start ups founded by PhDs, who then are tossed out / volunteer to leave because business didn't run according to theory. In the real world, practical experience I think it probably better, especially when managed against measurable results. My opinion only, everyone is entitled to their own.
 
But I think alot of Dem voters realized that, if even someone with the tenacity, the optimism, the charisma of Obama couldn't succeed in breaking Washington to actually accomplish things for everyday people, who could?

No one.
Horse****. Obama exposed himself as a corporate politician before he was ever elected. Anyone paying attention knew that he was speaking rhetoric about hope and change. Just because people chose to ignore the signs doesn't mean those signs weren't there.
 
The successful politician is one that claims to be for all three sides of a given issue and yet somewhat against it - but that actually does nothing on that issue. Once you propose, or vote for, legislation on that issue then you have a record which your opponents can (and likely will) use against you.

How can republicants, with a straight face, tell you that they are for repeal and replacement of PPACA when they did nothing other than to remove the individual mandate tax penalty while knowing that would increase "private" premium prices? If you think, even for one minute, that the demorats will not use rising MCI premiums and a rising deficit to bash the republicants then you likely have been into the (spiked?) Kool-aid.

Trump is making another huge mistake by constantly pointing to the stock market as being the true measure of his (and, by extension, the republicants) wonderfulness. It is an extremely bad bet to count on the stock market continuing to rise, much less not dropping, before the 2018 elections. The stock market reacts to world events, many of which Trump has no control over.

Umm. Not sure if I brought any of those things into the discussion, but as you will.

No, I don't doubt that the Democrats will be attacking any and all means and manner, and will endlessly repeat the talking points their focus groups and polling indicate gaining traction with the electorate (as is typical of them, throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks).

Fair point about Trump and the stock market. A continuing upward trend, there's bound to be a correction along. How large a correction, I guess, becomes the question, as this will also determine the political impact.
 
Horse****. Obama exposed himself as a corporate politician before he was ever elected. Anyone paying attention knew that he was speaking rhetoric about hope and change. Just because people chose to ignore the signs doesn't mean those signs weren't there.

You cannot become the nominee of either corporate party without first selling out and becoming a corporate whore. What was astonishing to me was the number of people who were fooled by Trump in that regard. The man is nothing if not "for sale".
 
Horse****. Obama exposed himself as a corporate politician before he was ever elected. Anyone paying attention knew that he was speaking rhetoric about hope and change. Just because people chose to ignore the signs doesn't mean those signs weren't there.

From my view he exposed himself a being on the further left of center on the political spectrum as well.
 
If you are equating the progressive movement with progress, I'd have to disagree, I wouldn't call the progressive agenda as progress. I know that you'll disagree.

PhD's vs other experience, that's academic theory vs. practical experience. Since when does academic theory do well in the real world? Recall the number of start ups founded by PhDs, who then are tossed out / volunteer to leave because business didn't run according to theory. In the real world, practical experience I think it probably better, especially when managed against measurable results. My opinion only, everyone is entitled to their own.

What experience did Ben Carson have with HUD? Zero.
What experience did DeVos have with Public Education? Zero.
What experience did Rick Perry have with the Department of Energy? Zero.
And four of his nominees for judgeships were deemed NOT QUALIFIED by the American Bar Association.

But wait! Let's not stop there!

What experience did Tillerson have with international diplomacy? Zero.
What experience did Kushner bring to his "Middle East peace" mission? Zero.
But hey - there's one who DID have experience - Michael Flynn had lots of intel experience! Just ask the Turks who employed him as a spy, and the Kremlin that considered him a "Friend of Russia"!
 
OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

Yes / No
Leaning Yes / Leaning No
Other: Elaborate

I tend to agree with this. The Dems have a golden opportunity, but it requires some honest self-evaluation, and they've been loathe to do that. They have done nothing to address their message, or put forth any viable candidates for President (or Congress). Their whole premise seems to be "But we're not Trump", which *might* work but would require cooperation of the Reps and Trump to be total idiots. Which may happen, as well, but it's not something a party should bank on. Bottom line: The Dems are squandering their opportunity.
 
What experience did Ben Carson have with HUD? Zero.
What experience did DeVos have with Public Education? Zero.
What experience did Rick Perry have with the Department of Energy? Zero.
And four of his nominees for judgeships were deemed NOT QUALIFIED by the American Bar Association.

But wait! Let's not stop there!

What experience did Tillerson have with international diplomacy? Zero.
What experience did Kushner bring to his "Middle East peace" mission? Zero.
But hey - there's one who DID have experience - Michael Flynn had lots of intel experience! Just ask the Turks who employed him as a spy, and the Kremlin that considered him a "Friend of Russia"!

Yes, I know. You'd much rather have the federal government staffed with academic theoreticians with no practical experience. :roll:
Like you do in higher education, as ****ed up as it is, being little more than liberal / progressive indoctrination centers. :Grrr

All those people that you've listed, you've discounted and dismissed their real life experiences they bring to the table, so narrow minded are you.

Who do you think Tillerson was negotiating with while as head of Excon? For example.

If you fail to look closer and dismiss out of hand, I'll only return the favor and do the same to you.
 
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I tend to agree with this. The Dems have a golden opportunity, but it requires some honest self-evaluation, and they've been loathe to do that. They have done nothing to address their message, or put forth any viable candidates for President (or Congress). Their whole premise seems to be "But we're not Trump", which *might* work but would require cooperation of the Reps and Trump to be total idiots.

Some are asserting that this is already there. From my view, let them think that. Last time they did, they were 1000% sure Hillary was going to win.

Which may happen, as well, but it's not something a party should bank on.

Agreed, and some are already falling into that quicksand all on their own. Well, at least it'll be self-inflicted.

Bottom line: The Dems are squandering their opportunity.

Yep. But then, to be fair, the Repubs also squander a great many opportunities.
 
OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

Yes / No
Leaning Yes / Leaning No
Other: Elaborate

I think the Democratic Party is in a better position than the GOP. The GOP has Trump and GWB. Neither are popular. The Democratic Party has Obama and the Clinton's, and the Obama's seem pretty popular post office. Obama is a democratic party leader, but, of course, he cannot be president again.

The GOP holds a majority but they are not effective at governing.

The Democrats appear to be splitting along establishment and anti establishment lines, so it's hard to say where they are headed as well.

In closing, I would say neither party is popular. Both establishments are out of favor with the general population, but at least the Democrats have a popular former president, whereas, the GOP has none.
 
I think the Democratic Party is in a better position than the GOP. The GOP has Trump and GWB. Neither are popular. The Democratic Party has Obama and the Clinton's, and the Obama's seem pretty popular post office. Obama is a democratic party leader, but, of course, he cannot be president again.

Can't argue about Trump or GWB's popularity, if we are to believe the polling.

You must have missed the last election, Hillary wasn't a popular candidate, else why would Trump have beaten her? (Yes, an electoral college win, but still), polling led everyone to believe that she would win in a landslide, but didn't, and Obama stumping for her didn't overcome her unpopularity either:



The GOP holds a majority but they are not effective at governing.

The Democrats appear to be splitting along establishment and anti establishment lines, so it's hard to say where they are headed as well.

There's a great big pull to the left, which some believe will gain the Dems more votes, but I'd observer that population statistics are a bell shaped curve, moving further left is where the number of voters falls off.

In closing, I would say neither party is popular. Both establishments are out of favor with the general population, but at least the Democrats have a popular former president, whereas, the GOP has none.

Fair.
 
OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

Yes / No
Leaning Yes / Leaning No
Other: Elaborate

Pretty much. When asked: Do you think the Democratic Party currently stands for something, or just stands against Trump? 37% of all Americans answered, "Stands for Something," But 52% of all Americans responded the Democratic Party is just the anti-Trump Party.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/page...uestion_18939.xml?uuid=TwsZhmnbEeeUq1sfD_RZ3w

Even so, I doubt that feeling will have an impact on next year's midterms. The first midterm is almost always a referendum on the president. How the midterms turn out will be more about Trump than the Democratic Party.
 
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