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OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?


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I think you're dreaming if you think the Democrats are going to run on "We want to raise your taxes."

I was half kidding. Of course they won't do that.

I would assume and everyone knows what assumptions make you. But I would assume the Democrats are going to run against Trump's persona first, then delve into their normal class warfare and group or identity politics pitting one group of voters against another.

Yeah, all that's been demonstrated by them for quite sometime now. I guess their song remains the same, i.e. class war, group and identity politics, intersectional politics, same as usual, working to tear the electorate apart and antagonize groups against each other. Just wonderful. :roll:
 
I don't think we are really gonna know about how Trump will be remembered until after he is done.

I suspect that's true (or how about possible?). But we also have an example in history of the same sort of thing. Truman.

He wasn't highly thought of during his tenure, but as more and more time passed, his stature grew.
 
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I think it depends on The grounds that are being used to support the arguement for impeachment.

Hmm.

I've read it asserted in these forums that in order to impeach a president, he has to have committed a crime (high crimes and misdemeanors).

I've read it asserted in these forums that impeachment is strictly a political matter, and how the 2 houses of congress vote on the matter.

As I know that the constitution cites high crimes and misdemeanors are a requirement for impeachment, I'm kinda more on the side that a president needs to have committed a crime, and applied to Trump, what would the crime be? Being un-presidential? (Or are we all waiting for the results from Mueller's investigation before proceeding on impeachment?)
 
And the republicans have done nothing to gain high ground.

Some of the legeslation produced by the congressional Republicans are toxic.

I know that opinions differ, but to be fair and honest, toxic legislation isn't limited to one party, both parties have introduced such.
 
one huge difference--they don't have to lie about Trump. He does it for them.

Agreed that Trump does it for them, but in all fairness some of the stuff the reps hurled at Obama were lies, too, just not as blatant.

(Not sure that came out right.)
 
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I don't think we are really gonna know about how Trump will be remembered until after he is done.

I'm speculating on all of them to varying degrees. It is my opinion that the true ad full legacy of any President can't be fully known until about 30 years after they have left office.
 
There's a faction of the Democratic party out there pushing for impeachment and another faction telling them to pipe down.

There's also a growing call for Pelosi to step down.

There seems to be a real division in the party over the new head of the DNC.

They don't have a message or vision to offer because their far left and the more centrist Democrats are at odds with each other in the way they should go.

If the left side of the aisle wants to impeach Trump they will have to wait to get control of the House. Though there are some thinking that is a possibility in 2018, they need a united convincing message and at the moment that is nowhere to be found. Just anti-Trump rhetoric.

Next year is going to be full of information released in the form of reports from the three committees in Congress over their Russian investigations. There is also a report due by March from Inspector General Horowitz over misconduct of upper echelon of the FBI and the DOJ under the Obama administration in regard to the Clinton email scandal and the Russian investigation launched to spy on the Trump campaign and Transition team. There's another probe now ongoing over the Uranium One Deal. Turns out a former FBI agent was undercover for years into the aggressive actions of the Russian government buying up uranium. Obama's DOJ put a gag order on him and he was not allowed to speak. That has since been lifted he is talking has recordings, pictures, video and he is sharing it with Congress.

I believe all of this is going to be very telling and it may shake some folks around here to their core. It has the potential to bring a whole new meaning to the Ides of March.
 
Agreed that Trump does it for them, but in all fairness some of the stuff the reps hurled at Obama were lies, too, just not as blatant.

(Not sure that came out right.)

I've been trying to find a reason, any reason, to cut the R's and Trump some slack. Can't find it.
 
There's a faction of the Democratic party out there pushing for impeachment and another faction telling them to pipe down.

There's also a growing call for Pelosi to step down.

There seems to be a real division in the party over the new head of the DNC.

They don't have a message or vision to offer because their far left and the more centrist Democrats are at odds with each other in the way they should go.

If the left side of the aisle wants to impeach Trump they will have to wait to get control of the House. Though there are some thinking that is a possibility in 2018, they need a united convincing message and at the moment that is nowhere to be found. Just anti-Trump rhetoric.

Next year is going to be full of information released in the form of reports from the three committees in Congress over their Russian investigations. There is also a report due by March from Inspector General Horowitz over misconduct of upper echelon of the FBI and the DOJ under the Obama administration in regard to the Clinton email scandal and the Russian investigation launched to spy on the Trump campaign and Transition team. There's another probe now ongoing over the Uranium One Deal. Turns out a former FBI agent was undercover for years into the aggressive actions of the Russian government buying up uranium. Obama's DOJ put a gag order on him and he was not allowed to speak. That has since been lifted he is talking has recordings, pictures, video and he is sharing it with Congress.

I believe all of this is going to be very telling and it may shake some folks around here to their core. It has the potential to bring a whole new meaning to the Ides of March.
From my vantage point from the center the Dem Party need to drop Pelosi like a bad habit. And not only do they refuse, they are utterly clueless as to why they should.
 
Yes, there was some, and they too didn't have any grounds on which to base that impeachment demand either.

But the impeachment movement for Trump seems to have a great many more people, some in senior political positions, where as I never got that impression from the Obama impeachment movement. Mainstream vs. fringe perhaps?

A quick search turns up the names Darrel Issa, Jon Kyl, James Inhofe, Jason Chaffetz, Tom Coburn, and Blake Farenthold (that one made me chuckle) among others.
 
A quick search turns up the names Darrel Issa, Jon Kyl, James Inhofe, Jason Chaffetz, Tom Coburn, and Blake Farenthold (that one made me chuckle) among others.

So, not many, then?

I do believe there's more Dem's shouting to impeach Trump now a days, but I have to admit, I could be wrong, in I've never actually bothered to count.
 
I do agree if Dems place their entire election hopes on opposition to Trump, they may very well come up short but that depends on if there's a massive market correction in the mean time or if Trump starts a pointless and unnecessary war etc.

Dems need to have a message but I think, the last election showed Americans are more progressive than Trump supporters will give the country credit for, yes Trump won but more people, by a pretty healthy margin agreed with and voted for Hillary.

The problem is, Obama 08 genuinely made people feel hopeful that things in America could finally change because it is actually an extreme minority in America, but a powerful one that stands in the way of meaningful change in America, whether that be UHC or whatever... But I think alot of Dem voters realized that, if even someone with the tenacity, the optimism, the charisma of Obama couldn't succeed in breaking Washington to actually accomplish things for everyday people, who could?

No one.

And that's because Washington doesn't serve every day people and neither do most state legislatures, they serve their donors and big corporations and that does go for both parties.

And ironically while many Conservatives will agree with me on that point, they will also largely defend Citizens United which made this problem exponentially worse because it, in essence legalized bribery and unless that decision is overturned and that's unlikely to happen... The situation will only get worse and while you all remain on your Republican/Democrat hamster wheel, the country sinks further into the abyss, most of the wealth rises to the top which Trump just made exponentially worse and Big Corporations pick the meat and bones away from the rest of the population and leave it decimated.

But Democrats don't need that big of a message. I mean look at Trump. His message was. Wall, Jobs, and I'm good at business stuff and that's what got him elected. Most trumpsters look past all of his very, very many faults because they still believe in that image that Trump created for himself.

Democrats need to get on board with the sexual assault message but they can't seem like they are doing that JUST because... They have to embrace it and I'm not so sure many in the party are willing to do that. They haven't so far. It's going to be tough for Democrats to find anybody like that to compete with Obama or Trump for that matter. Obama was pretty much the perfect Democrat or at least he became one over the years. Democrats need to find another Obama X10 if they want to match the level of support Trump has among his base. But if Trump gets impeached or if they impeach Trump, I wonder how that will affect their mood for the election in 2020. Will they even care to try that hard? Or will they just let some poor sap like Bernie Sanders try again?? Celebrating their impeachment winnings and just hanging back until 2024?

I also wonder how a Republican would do in 2020 against Trump. Would it extremely easy to point out all his flip-flops? Stuff conservatives used to care about? or would every single attack against Trump slide off him, like it has done so far?
 
Democrats need to dedicate themselves to being the party of the average worker. the entire message should be about helping workers to navigate the massive wave of automation that's almost certainly coming. perhaps a good message would be "if you elect enough of us and you're willing to work, we'll train you, we'll hire you, and your family's health care will be covered."

seems like a good start.
 
From my vantage point from the center the Dem Party need to drop Pelosi like a bad habit. And not only do they refuse, they are utterly clueless as to why they should.

Maybe because you don’t know the internal workings of the Democratic congressional caucus.

Pelosi knows how to control her caucus and count the votes
 
Maybe because you don’t know the internal workings of the Democratic congressional caucus.

Pelosi knows how to control her caucus and count the votes

That's great. Really, it is. I guess continually losing seats and influence in Congress is secondary.
 
That's great. Really, it is. I guess continually losing seats and influence in Congress is secondary.

I think democrats have been winning plenty of special elections in 2017.

Here is a better question: what message do republicans intend to run on?
 
Ryan Cooper is talking about this general subject yet again today:

How to crush Trump

There is no substitute for winning elections, elections matter, elections must be respected.
 
I think democrats have been winning plenty of special elections in 2017.

Here is a better question: what message do republicans intend to run on?

If you're satisfied with a small handful and portray that as "plenty", that's your choice.

Deflection denied. We weren't talking about the Reps.
 
If you're satisfied with a small handful and portray that as "plenty", that's your choice.

Deflection denied. We weren't talking about the Reps.

Democrats do not need a big over arching message to win elections.

Republicans control all branches of national government and a majority of governorships. What is the platform the republicans are going to run on? Their tax cuts? Their healthcare repeal efforts?

Democrats on the other hand are going to run on the platform of halting the chaos of this administration
 
Republicans had no message from 2009-2016 (other than being anti Obama), and look at where they are now.

Trump had no message either really. His entire campaign was based on race baiting and nationalist rhetoric, and insulting anyone who dared to oppose him. It's amusing how the same people who voted for a divisive clown like Trump could have the audacity to complain about the Democrats playing "identity politics" when Trump's rise to the presidency was entirely based on "identity politics"
 
More lies.

Slowest rate of recovery since WWII. :shock:
https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welco....google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

Ran up 7 trillion more debt after he attacked the prior president as being unpatriotic for his debt. :shock:

Continued two wars that he promised to end, and added another one? :shock:
https://www.npr.org/sections/parall...o-wars-obama-finds-himself-entangled-in-three

ACA will save families $2400.00 annually. :shock:


You can keep your doctor................OH! You can't keep your doctor. :shock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mqdY-J56DE

I can keep going all night but "libruls" are tone deaf.


1. Faced the worst degree of political opposition faced by any president since Lincoln - the Republicans refused to work with him on ANYthing...even if they had supported it before. THAT, sir, is why the recovery was slower...and the overwhelming majority of economists said that the reason the recovery wasn't quicker was because the stimulus was too SMALL. Even then we recovered much more quickly than most of Europe. Why? Because most of Europe did NOT use an economic stimulus, but instead went the route of austerity - which, btw, is precisely what the Republicans wanted to do.

2. Complaining about the debt again? MOST of that debt came from being saddled on day one with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression...and even then Obama was still able to cut the deficit in half. Remember the deficit? That, sir, is what ADDS to the debt...and YOUR side just decided to pass a tax cut that will add ANOTHER $1.5 trillion (which, btw, is an estimation using THEIR rose-colored glasses). No sir, you've got precisely ZERO room to talk when it comes to the debt and deficit.

3. By the time Obama left office, we had zero wars...because the Iraq war was done and we were out of there, our troop level in Afghanistan was FAR below what it was when he took over (it's an occupation and not a war), and America is NOT fighting a war in Syria...because if you're going to point to supplying one side or the other, and pointing to our air support and/or special forces, then we've been in a heck of a lot MORE wars since 1980 than anyone realizes.

4. And when it comes to the ACA, 20M more American citizens are covered than before...which means that our percentage of population covered is the highest percentage in all American history. But I get it - you don't really give a damn if health insurance can deny your coverage (as UHC - who runs TriCare btw - did for sixteen percent of all claims in the years before the ACA), you don't give a damn if your kids can't get covered, you don't give a damn if the HMO's spend only a fraction of their revenue on actually paying for health care, you don't give a damn if they raise prices at a MUCH faster rate than they're allowed to now...
...after all, you've got yours, so why the hell should you care? You've got yours, same as I do...never mind that YOU have what is by definition socialized health care...and it's damned good compared to so much of what the privately-run HMO's provide.

I can keep going all night, too...but you, sir, are too drunk on the right-wing Kool-Aid that you can't grasp that "libruls" are anything but subhuman wastes of flesh since they won't subserviently bow and scrape before unquestionable conservative dogma.

Oh, one last thing - you do know that the 1956 GOP party platform was in many ways very similar to the 2012 Democratic party platform, right? In other words, to today's "conservatives", Dwight D. Eisenhower would be considered a far-left screaming "tone-deaf librul". But if you had a lick of self-awareness left in you, that SHOULD tell you just how far off the edge of the map the GOP has gone.
 
You listed a lot of what you think..............:lamo

Opinions are a dime a dozen.

Oh, I forgot! Those examples I gave you, every one of which are FACTS, well, to your mind, facts aren't really facts, they're just OPINIONS! No wonder you love Trump, since he's shown you that you don't have to deal with silly things like fact and reality, that all that really counts are his opinions...and anything that makes him look bad is FAKE NEWS! And didja hear he invented the word "fake"? He said it himself! Of course, the fact that the word "fake" has been around a bit longer than he has, well, that's just an opinion, I guess, and so it doesn't count in your world....
 
1. Faced the worst degree of political opposition faced by any president since Lincoln - the Republicans refused to work with him on ANYthing...even if they had supported it before. THAT, sir, is why the recovery was slower...and the overwhelming majority of economists said that the reason the recovery wasn't quicker was because the stimulus was too SMALL. Even then we recovered much more quickly than most of Europe. Why? Because most of Europe did NOT use an economic stimulus, but instead went the route of austerity - which, btw, is precisely what the Republicans wanted to do.

2. Complaining about the debt again? MOST of that debt came from being saddled on day one with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression...and even then Obama was still able to cut the deficit in half. Remember the deficit? That, sir, is what ADDS to the debt...and YOUR side just decided to pass a tax cut that will add ANOTHER $1.5 trillion (which, btw, is an estimation using THEIR rose-colored glasses). No sir, you've got precisely ZERO room to talk when it comes to the debt and deficit.

3. By the time Obama left office, we had zero wars...because the Iraq war was done and we were out of there, our troop level in Afghanistan was FAR below what it was when he took over (it's an occupation and not a war), and America is NOT fighting a war in Syria...because if you're going to point to supplying one side or the other, and pointing to our air support and/or special forces, then we've been in a heck of a lot MORE wars since 1980 than anyone realizes.

4. And when it comes to the ACA, 20M more American citizens are covered than before...which means that our percentage of population covered is the highest percentage in all American history. But I get it - you don't really give a damn if health insurance can deny your coverage (as UHC - who runs TriCare btw - did for sixteen percent of all claims in the years before the ACA), you don't give a damn if your kids can't get covered, you don't give a damn if the HMO's spend only a fraction of their revenue on actually paying for health care, you don't give a damn if they raise prices at a MUCH faster rate than they're allowed to now...
...after all, you've got yours, so why the hell should you care? You've got yours, same as I do...never mind that YOU have what is by definition socialized health care...and it's damned good compared to so much of what the privately-run HMO's provide.

I can keep going all night, too...but you, sir, are too drunk on the right-wing Kool-Aid that you can't grasp that "libruls" are anything but subhuman wastes of flesh since they won't subserviently bow and scrape before unquestionable conservative dogma.

Oh, one last thing - you do know that the 1956 GOP party platform was in many ways very similar to the 2012 Democratic party platform, right? In other words, to today's "conservatives", Dwight D. Eisenhower would be considered a far-left screaming "tone-deaf librul". But if you had a lick of self-awareness left in you, that SHOULD tell you just how far off the edge of the map the GOP has gone.

LOL.....BS

Obama didn't go through anything more than the man before him. Your ass clown democrat friends made it seem worse by using the racism boogie man charade.

Obama didn't subsidize billions a year in unconstitutional bribes to insurance companies to stay with the ACA?

AWWWW...them nasty Republicans, the party of NO. But meanwhile, Harry Reid did Obama's dirty work by blocking 285 bills, many which were bipartisan.
 
Oh, I forgot! Those examples I gave you, every one of which are FACTS, well, to your mind, facts aren't really facts, they're just OPINIONS! No wonder you love Trump, since he's shown you that you don't have to deal with silly things like fact and reality, that all that really counts are his opinions...and anything that makes him look bad is FAKE NEWS! And didja hear he invented the word "fake"? He said it himself! Of course, the fact that the word "fake" has been around a bit longer than he has, well, that's just an opinion, I guess, and so it doesn't count in your world....

They are not facts, they are your opinion.
 
OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

Yes / No
Leaning Yes / Leaning No
Other: Elaborate

If you think that, then you must have thought that the Republicans had no message when they were in the minority as well.

the sides are clear, the messages are clear

Dems - Government works for you to improve your life - someone has to pay for it
Reps - Government works against you and tries to control your life - paying for it is a waste of time
 
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