View Poll Results: Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

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  • Yes

    8 47.06%
  • No

    1 5.88%
  • Lean Yes

    3 17.65%
  • Lean No

    2 11.76%
  • Other: Elaborate

    3 17.65%
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Thread: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

  1. #11
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the self-sabotage methods between the Democrat party and the Republican party are more similar than dissimilar. Correct?

    It would be a fair observation that there are similarities, but I'd suspect that there would also be differences, unique unto each of them.
    The successful politician is one that claims to be for all three sides of a given issue and yet somewhat against it - but that actually does nothing on that issue. Once you propose, or vote for, legislation on that issue then you have a record which your opponents can (and likely will) use against you.

    How can republicants, with a straight face, tell you that they are for repeal and replacement of PPACA when they did nothing other than to remove the individual mandate tax penalty while knowing that would increase "private" premium prices? If you think, even for one minute, that the demorats will not use rising MCI premiums and a rising deficit to bash the republicants then you likely have been into the (spiked?) Kool-aid.

    Trump is making another huge mistake by constantly pointing to the stock market as being the true measure of his (and, by extension, the republicants) wonderfulness. It is an extremely bad bet to count on the stock market continuing to rise, much less not dropping, before the 2018 elections. The stock market reacts to world events, many of which Trump has no control over.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #12
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Hmmmm...let me see here. Under Obama, we had by far the longest stretch of private-sector job growth in ALL American history, never mind the fact that on the day he took the job, he faced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, faced not one, but TWO highly unpopular wars, AND had to deal with the worst degree of political opposition faced by any president since Lincoln. Yet in your world, we never did anything good or right!

    Um, yeah, we DO have a message - it's called PROGRESS. Under Obama, we cut the deficit in half (though conservatives seem to not know the difference between "deficit" and "debt" e.g. Cheney's quote: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter")...whereas now that the GOP controls the whole doggone government, you're blowing up the deficit by at least $1.5 trillion dollars over the next decade. Our message is also SCIENCE - you know, the "S"-word that American conservatives are so offended by...since the rest of the planet - every single nation except for America is sticking by the Paris Accords, and the overwhelming majority of scientists (including almost all the climatologists) strongly agree concerning global warming. But then, why should we be surprised since conservatives don't think college is worth it anymore 'cause education isn't toeing the conservative dogma line...

    ...which, btw, is how we got to the GOP enthusiastically approving department heads with precisely ZERO experience in those departments! WE put in department heads with PhD's and long years of experience in those fields...but YOU put in a brain surgeon in charge of HUD, a billionaire with NO public education experience in charge of our Department of Education, a governor in charge of the Department of Energy who had publicly stated he wanted to get RID of the Department of Energy - and who didn't know that the DOE is what oversees all our nuclear weapons! Oh, and let's not forget the guys that Your Boy Trump nominated for lifetime judgeships who were deemed NOT QUALIFIED by the American Bar Association...including one idiot who literally had LESS courtroom experience as an attorney than I do! Why the heck do you think people are looking at the GOP as the "party of stupid"? Because y'all are being WILLFULLY stupid!

    The message of the Democratic party is PROGRESS - work WITH the rest of the planet, and lead by example and by noblesse oblige...

    whereas the message of the GOP is "Burn it ALL down!" - get rid of the Paris Accord, get rid of the TPP, get rid of the Affordable Care Act, get rid of the United Nations, and tear down the freaking Statue of Liberty since it represents our tradition as a nation of IMMIGRANTS.
    If you are equating the progressive movement with progress, I'd have to disagree, I wouldn't call the progressive agenda as progress. I know that you'll disagree.

    PhD's vs other experience, that's academic theory vs. practical experience. Since when does academic theory do well in the real world? Recall the number of start ups founded by PhDs, who then are tossed out / volunteer to leave because business didn't run according to theory. In the real world, practical experience I think it probably better, especially when managed against measurable results. My opinion only, everyone is entitled to their own.
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    “That’s why I told Washington Republicans to grow a pair of ovaries and get the job done,”, Martha McSally - Yeeesss!!

  3. #13
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    But I think alot of Dem voters realized that, if even someone with the tenacity, the optimism, the charisma of Obama couldn't succeed in breaking Washington to actually accomplish things for everyday people, who could?

    No one.
    Horse****. Obama exposed himself as a corporate politician before he was ever elected. Anyone paying attention knew that he was speaking rhetoric about hope and change. Just because people chose to ignore the signs doesn't mean those signs weren't there.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

  4. #14
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The successful politician is one that claims to be for all three sides of a given issue and yet somewhat against it - but that actually does nothing on that issue. Once you propose, or vote for, legislation on that issue then you have a record which your opponents can (and likely will) use against you.

    How can republicants, with a straight face, tell you that they are for repeal and replacement of PPACA when they did nothing other than to remove the individual mandate tax penalty while knowing that would increase "private" premium prices? If you think, even for one minute, that the demorats will not use rising MCI premiums and a rising deficit to bash the republicants then you likely have been into the (spiked?) Kool-aid.

    Trump is making another huge mistake by constantly pointing to the stock market as being the true measure of his (and, by extension, the republicants) wonderfulness. It is an extremely bad bet to count on the stock market continuing to rise, much less not dropping, before the 2018 elections. The stock market reacts to world events, many of which Trump has no control over.
    Umm. Not sure if I brought any of those things into the discussion, but as you will.

    No, I don't doubt that the Democrats will be attacking any and all means and manner, and will endlessly repeat the talking points their focus groups and polling indicate gaining traction with the electorate (as is typical of them, throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks).

    Fair point about Trump and the stock market. A continuing upward trend, there's bound to be a correction along. How large a correction, I guess, becomes the question, as this will also determine the political impact.
    Friends of Billary Investigations [ the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigations (AKA the federal bureau of matters) ]
    “That’s why I told Washington Republicans to grow a pair of ovaries and get the job done,”, Martha McSally - Yeeesss!!

  5. #15
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Horse****. Obama exposed himself as a corporate politician before he was ever elected. Anyone paying attention knew that he was speaking rhetoric about hope and change. Just because people chose to ignore the signs doesn't mean those signs weren't there.
    You cannot become the nominee of either corporate party without first selling out and becoming a corporate whore. What was astonishing to me was the number of people who were fooled by Trump in that regard. The man is nothing if not "for sale".
    Trump doesn’t speak so much as allow the words in his limited vocabulary to join hands and jump off a cliff. - Henry Rollins

  6. #16
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Horse****. Obama exposed himself as a corporate politician before he was ever elected. Anyone paying attention knew that he was speaking rhetoric about hope and change. Just because people chose to ignore the signs doesn't mean those signs weren't there.
    From my view he exposed himself a being on the further left of center on the political spectrum as well.
    Friends of Billary Investigations [ the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigations (AKA the federal bureau of matters) ]
    “That’s why I told Washington Republicans to grow a pair of ovaries and get the job done,”, Martha McSally - Yeeesss!!

  7. #17
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    If you are equating the progressive movement with progress, I'd have to disagree, I wouldn't call the progressive agenda as progress. I know that you'll disagree.

    PhD's vs other experience, that's academic theory vs. practical experience. Since when does academic theory do well in the real world? Recall the number of start ups founded by PhDs, who then are tossed out / volunteer to leave because business didn't run according to theory. In the real world, practical experience I think it probably better, especially when managed against measurable results. My opinion only, everyone is entitled to their own.
    What experience did Ben Carson have with HUD? Zero.
    What experience did DeVos have with Public Education? Zero.
    What experience did Rick Perry have with the Department of Energy? Zero.
    And four of his nominees for judgeships were deemed NOT QUALIFIED by the American Bar Association.

    But wait! Let's not stop there!

    What experience did Tillerson have with international diplomacy? Zero.
    What experience did Kushner bring to his "Middle East peace" mission? Zero.
    But hey - there's one who DID have experience - Michael Flynn had lots of intel experience! Just ask the Turks who employed him as a spy, and the Kremlin that considered him a "Friend of Russia"!
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #18
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    OPINION:"Democrats... have no message, no leader and nothing to brag about. That leaves a vacuum, which is being filled with one idea: impeaching President Trump."

    Yes / No
    Leaning Yes / Leaning No
    Other: Elaborate
    I tend to agree with this. The Dems have a golden opportunity, but it requires some honest self-evaluation, and they've been loathe to do that. They have done nothing to address their message, or put forth any viable candidates for President (or Congress). Their whole premise seems to be "But we're not Trump", which *might* work but would require cooperation of the Reps and Trump to be total idiots. Which may happen, as well, but it's not something a party should bank on. Bottom line: The Dems are squandering their opportunity.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #19
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    What experience did Ben Carson have with HUD? Zero.
    What experience did DeVos have with Public Education? Zero.
    What experience did Rick Perry have with the Department of Energy? Zero.
    And four of his nominees for judgeships were deemed NOT QUALIFIED by the American Bar Association.

    But wait! Let's not stop there!

    What experience did Tillerson have with international diplomacy? Zero.
    What experience did Kushner bring to his "Middle East peace" mission? Zero.
    But hey - there's one who DID have experience - Michael Flynn had lots of intel experience! Just ask the Turks who employed him as a spy, and the Kremlin that considered him a "Friend of Russia"!
    Yes, I know. You'd much rather have the federal government staffed with academic theoreticians with no practical experience.
    Like you do in higher education, as ****ed up as it is, being little more than liberal / progressive indoctrination centers. :Grrr

    All those people that you've listed, you've discounted and dismissed their real life experiences they bring to the table, so narrow minded are you.

    Who do you think Tillerson was negotiating with while as head of Excon? For example.

    If you fail to look closer and dismiss out of hand, I'll only return the favor and do the same to you.
    Last edited by eohrnberger; 12-26-17 at 04:42 PM.
    Friends of Billary Investigations [ the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigations (AKA the federal bureau of matters) ]
    “That’s why I told Washington Republicans to grow a pair of ovaries and get the job done,”, Martha McSally - Yeeesss!!

  10. #20
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    Re: OPINION: "Dems no message, no leader, nothing to brag about. Replaced by Impeach Trump?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I tend to agree with this. The Dems have a golden opportunity, but it requires some honest self-evaluation, and they've been loathe to do that. They have done nothing to address their message, or put forth any viable candidates for President (or Congress). Their whole premise seems to be "But we're not Trump", which *might* work but would require cooperation of the Reps and Trump to be total idiots.
    Some are asserting that this is already there. From my view, let them think that. Last time they did, they were 1000% sure Hillary was going to win.

    Which may happen, as well, but it's not something a party should bank on.
    Agreed, and some are already falling into that quicksand all on their own. Well, at least it'll be self-inflicted.

    Bottom line: The Dems are squandering their opportunity.
    Yep. But then, to be fair, the Repubs also squander a great many opportunities.
    Friends of Billary Investigations [ the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigations (AKA the federal bureau of matters) ]
    “That’s why I told Washington Republicans to grow a pair of ovaries and get the job done,”, Martha McSally - Yeeesss!!

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