• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism?

Y

Yes_Minister

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
7,489
Reaction score
2,745
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism? They keep on saying they are for small government and individualism, but I have my doubts.

It seems like Republicans use social conservatism and religion to try to micromanage the lives of people they don't like, from opposing gay marriage to trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, they only support individual freedom of people they like.

Speaking of the military, all this talk of small government never applies to the military, the GOP always has money for the military industrial complex and wars they want to start, big military is big government, but they never seem to care about that. Debts created by military spending are considered irrelevant and speaking of debt, when is the last time a Republican Federal administration reduced the debt?

And here the big one, for their talk of individualism, Republicans seem to try to present who ever the Republican President is as some strong man leader who everyone should trust without question to take care of them and protect them, they did with Bush and they are doing it with Trump:

Opposing Bush becomes unpatriotic.

Republican individualism is a sham, its all about promoting group think, Republican individualism is about conformity, anyone who has an idea outside of their norms is not a real American. Remember when Fox News promoted the idea that opposing the Iraq war meant you hated freedom or were anti American? Republican freedom seems to mean you have the freedom to believe what they believe.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism? They keep on saying they are for small government and individualism, but I have my doubts.

It seems like Republicans use social conservatism and religion to try to micromanage the lives of people they don't like, from opposing gay marriage to trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, they only support individual freedom of people they like.

Speaking of the military, all this talk of small government never applies to the military, the GOP always has money for the military industrial complex and wars they want to start, big military is big government, but they never seem to care about that. Debts created by military spending are considered irrelevant and speaking of debt, when is the last time a Republican Federal administration reduced the debt?

And here the big one, for their talk of individualism, Republicans seem to try to present who ever the Republican President is as some strong man leader who everyone should trust without question to take care of them and protect them, they did with Bush and they are doing it with Trump:

Opposing Bush becomes unpatriotic.

Republican individualism is a sham, its all about promoting group think, Republican individualism is about conformity, anyone who has an idea outside of their norms is not a real American. Remember when Fox News promoted the idea that opposing the Iraq war meant you hated freedom or were anti American? Republican freedom seems to mean you have the freedom to believe what they believe.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for differences in the establishment politicians based on party affiliations, you will come up empty.

Our "opposing" political parties are as opposed to each other as professional wrestlers performing every night or actors playing antagonists in a movie.

The disagreements are make believe and advertised only to get a larger "gate".

Both of our political parties are completely and 100% devoted to a larger central government because keeping all of the money on one place makes it easier to steal.
 
Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism?

Well, not right now, as the Republicans are in power. When they weren't in power, then they were for small government and individualism, and, no doubt will be again as soon as Democrats are once again in power.
 
code1211 said:
If you are looking for differences in the establishment politicians based on party affiliations, you will come up empty.

Our "opposing" political parties are as opposed to each other as professional wrestlers performing every night or actors playing antagonists in a movie.

The disagreements are make believe and advertised only to get a larger "gate".

Both of our political parties are completely and 100% devoted to a larger central government because keeping all of the money on one place makes it easier to steal.
Click to expand...

Its not just establishment Republicans though, Fox News doesn't seem to mind big government when its for wars or religion and they always try to promote a cult of personality around a Republican President.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism? They keep on saying they are for small government and individualism, but I have my doubts.

It seems like Republicans use social conservatism and religion to try to micromanage the lives of people they don't like, from opposing gay marriage to trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, they only support individual freedom of people they like.

Speaking of the military, all this talk of small government never applies to the military, the GOP always has money for the military industrial complex and wars they want to start, big military is big government, but they never seem to care about that. Debts created by military spending are considered irrelevant and speaking of debt, when is the last time a Republican Federal administration reduced the debt?

And here the big one, for their talk of individualism, Republicans seem to try to present who ever the Republican President is as some strong man leader who everyone should trust without question to take care of them and protect them, they did with Bush and they are doing it with Trump:

Opposing Bush becomes unpatriotic.

Republican individualism is a sham, its all about promoting group think, Republican individualism is about conformity, anyone who has an idea outside of their norms is not a real American. Remember when Fox News promoted the idea that opposing the Iraq war meant you hated freedom or were anti American? Republican freedom seems to mean you have the freedom to believe what they believe.
Click to expand...

Most Republicans are not for a smaller more responsible government. Trump however, is for such a thing. Here's why...

Compare Dubya's policies to Trumps...

1. Dubya wanted world war everywhere and didn't give a damn about how much it costs. That's why the overall price tag for the unnecessary war in Iraq is likely to balloon past 3 Trillion dollars when you factor in veteran's benefits.

Trump pulled us back from unnecessary war in Syria and has stopped arming and training radical Islamic Terrorists "moderate rebels" in the area. Not only does this prevent unnecessary war, it also prevents escalating veterans costs.

2.Dubya initiated "No Child Left Behind", which was federal intrusion into the state government and was hated by local politicians, teachers, and administrators. It was federal overreach at its worst.

Trump along with Devos will be pulling back federal NCLB testing and also common core. Ultimately local control of scholarship should have minimal federal requirement.

3. Everyone and their mom knows Dubya was dead set on doing what he could to use religion to influence legislation. From gay marriage to abortion, Dubya wanted to feds to stick their noses into everything all under the guise of religion.

Trump is about as non-religious as it could be. He went onto the RNC national stage and openly declared that his administration will do everything in their power to protect the LGBTQ community from physical threats and received thunderous applause.
 
reinoe said:
Most Republicans are not for a smaller more responsible government. Trump however, is for such a thing. Here's why...

Compare Dubya's policies to Trumps...

1. Dubya wanted world war everywhere and didn't give a damn about how much it costs. That's why the overall price tag for the unnecessary war in Iraq is likely to balloon past 3 Trillion dollars when you factor in veteran's benefits.

Trump pulled us back from unnecessary war in Syria and has stopped arming and training radical Islamic Terrorists "moderate rebels" in the area. Not only does this prevent unnecessary war, it also prevents escalating veterans costs.

2.Dubya initiated "No Child Left Behind", which was federal intrusion into the state government and was hated by local politicians, teachers, and administrators. It was federal overreach at its worst.

Trump along with Devos will be pulling back federal NCLB testing and also common core. Ultimately local control of scholarship should have minimal federal requirement.

3. Everyone and their mom knows Dubya was dead set on doing what he could to use religion to influence legislation. From gay marriage to abortion, Dubya wanted to feds to stick their noses into everything all under the guise of religion.

Trump is about as non-religious as it could be. He went onto the RNC national stage and openly declared that his administration will do everything in their power to protect the LGBTQ community from physical threats and received thunderous applause.
Click to expand...

I bet people were saying similar things about Bush in his first year and it is hard compare them because Trump just started, but let's look at some stuff:

1. Trump has been talking about a massive military expansion for a while now, including the amount of nukes the US has, that is not going to be cheap. The wall will not be cheap either.

2. Trump is trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, he is taking away people's individual freedom to please his base.

3. Fox News is trying to create the same cult of personality for Trump that they created for Bush. I bet when he is out of office they will say he was a RINO and start again with the next GOP President.

When you get old enough you see patterns, Trump is just a permutation of Bush.
 
Yes_Minister said:
I bet people were saying similar things about Bush in his first year and it is hard compare them because Trump just started, but let's look at some stuff:

1. Trump has been talking about a massive military expansion for a while now, including the amount of nukes the US has, that is not going to be cheap. The wall will not be cheap either.

2. Trump is trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, he is taking away people's individual freedom to please his base.

3. Fox News is trying to create the same cult of personality for Trump that they created for Bush. I bet when he is out of office they will say he was a RINO and start again with the next GOP President.

When you get old enough you see patterns, Trump is just a permutation of Bush.
Click to expand...

Trump has been talking about massive military expansion and yet the only thing that has happened has been a reduction in military spending by cutting back on funding terrorism.

Banning transgendered people from the military has nothing to do with big/small government, which was the premise of your argument.

Your third point is completely off the rails and has nothing to do with Trump at all.
 
Yes_Minister said:
It seems like Republicans use social conservatism and religion to try to micromanage the lives of people they don't like, from opposing gay marriage to trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, they only support individual freedom of people they like.
Click to expand...





Yes_Minister said:
Speaking of the military, all this talk of small government never applies to the military, the GOP always has money for the military industrial complex and wars they want to start,
Click to expand...

Civil war: started by Democrats trying to preserve slavery. 625,000 dead American boys.

WW-I: Democrat Progressive Woodrow Wilson insisted on drafting boys to help Europeans sort out their civil wars: 116,500 dead American boys

WW-II Democrat FDR insisted on fighting and killing Japanese and Germans long after the threat had been "contained" and insisted we invade and overthrow their leadership.405,399 Dead American boys

Korean War: Democrat Harry Truman in charge of getting us into this war 36,500 dead American boys

Vietnam: Democrats JFK and LBJ got us into Vietnam 58,000 Dead American boys

The defense of the US Homeland is a required primary constitutional function, therefore "The Military Industrial Complex" is a primary function of government.

Listen to Ike's farewell address warning on "The government-educational complex" The warning our Marxist press didn't want you to hear:

"The free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded."


What? Old Ike warned us in 1952 about the global warming fraud well before it occurred. How did he know they would invent global warming more than 30 years later?

My fundamental beliefs are not a matter of daily fashion as yours and those of your heroes appear to be.

Comments?
 
Last edited:
Yes_Minister said:
Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism? They keep on saying they are for small government and individualism, but I have my doubts.

It seems like Republicans use social conservatism and religion to try to micromanage the lives of people they don't like, from opposing gay marriage to trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, they only support individual freedom of people they like.

Speaking of the military, all this talk of small government never applies to the military, the GOP always has money for the military industrial complex and wars they want to start, big military is big government, but they never seem to care about that. Debts created by military spending are considered irrelevant and speaking of debt, when is the last time a Republican Federal administration reduced the debt?

And here the big one, for their talk of individualism, Republicans seem to try to present who ever the Republican President is as some strong man leader who everyone should trust without question to take care of them and protect them, they did with Bush and they are doing it with Trump:

Opposing Bush becomes unpatriotic.

Republican individualism is a sham, its all about promoting group think, Republican individualism is about conformity, anyone who has an idea outside of their norms is not a real American. Remember when Fox News promoted the idea that opposing the Iraq war meant you hated freedom or were anti American? Republican freedom seems to mean you have the freedom to believe what they believe.
Click to expand...

Maybe you are right and you just couldn’t argue your corner.
 
reinoe said:
Trump has been talking about massive military expansion and yet the only thing that has happened has been a reduction in military spending by cutting back on funding terrorism.

Banning transgendered people from the military has nothing to do with big/small government, which was the premise of your argument.

Your third point is completely off the rails and has nothing to do with Trump at all.
Click to expand...

1. Then why is he talking about a military expansion at all?

2. Really, you are interfering with the lives of individuals and saying its for a greater good, how is that not big government or different fron what Bush did?

3. I am talking about the entire conservative movement not just Trump, Trump is just a cog in a bigger machine. The conservative movement always seems to have a figure they want to promote as a strong man who cannot be questioned, it was Bush back then and its Trump now.
 
SirGareth said:






Civil war: started by Democrats trying to preserve slavery. 625,000 dead American boys.

WW-I: Democrat Progressive Woodrow Wilson insisted on drafting boys to help Europeans sort out their civil wars: 116,500 dead American boys

WW-II Democrat FDR insisted on fighting and killing Japanese and Germans long after the threat had been "contained" and insisted we invade and overthrow their leadership.405,399 Dead American boys

Korean War: Democrat Harry Truman in charge of getting us into this war 36,500 dead American boys

Vietnam: Democrats JFK and LBJ got us into Vietnam 58,000 Dead American boys

The defense of the US Homeland is a required primary constitutional function, therefore "The Military Industrial Complex" is a primary function of government.

Listen to Ike's farewell address warning on "The government-educational complex" The warning our Marxist press didn't want you to hear:

"The free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded."


What? Old Ike warned us in 1952 about the global warming fraud well before it occurred. How did he know they would invent global warming more than 30 years later?

My fundamental beliefs are not a matter of daily fashion as yours and those of your heroes appear to be.

Comments?
Click to expand...


Really this all you got, you are trying to reach back to the Civil War and Vietnam to talk about modern politics?

Okay Obama and Clinton were not members of the "small government" party, so shouldn't the GOP have supported gay marriage first? I am not a partisan hack, so I don't care about the Dems doing it too, you say its wrong for both parties to do something.

You are reaching pretty far back to make the Dems look like hawks and the Dems look like doves, recent history is different then history from the 50s, Bush started the war in Iraq and Trump seems to want to start wars with North Korea and maybe Iran.

The US spends more on defense then the next 7 countries combined, how is that reasonable spending?

Your whole post is just what aboutism.
 
Last edited:
joG said:
Maybe you are right and you just couldn’t argue your corner.
Click to expand...

What you mean by that?

My ideology is my own, but I think its fair to hold others to beliefs they claim to believe in.
 
Yes_Minister said:
1. Then why is he talking about a military expansion at all?
Click to expand...

Because we live in a dangerous world and if we have much better arms and much better training we have far fewer dead American boys



Yes_Minister said:
2. Really, you are interfering with the lives of individuals and saying its for a greater good, how is that not big government or different fron what Bush did?
Click to expand...

National defense is a "common good" (benefits all equally) The constitution provides for this, it does not provide for any of the alphabet soup "agencies"; all designed to rob Peter to pay Paul where Paul is usually some government union employee.

Yes_Minister said:
3. I am talking about the entire conservative movement not just Trump, Trump is just a cog in a bigger machine. The conservative movement always seems to have a figure they want to promote as a strong man who cannot be questioned, it was Bush back then and its Trump now.
Click to expand...

What Machine? The government teacher union machine? The tort lawyer machine? The government union machine? The welfare "rights" machine?
 
Yes_Minister said:
Its not just establishment Republicans though, Fox News doesn't seem to mind big government when its for wars or religion and they always try to promote a cult of personality around a Republican President.
Click to expand...

Can you define "FOX News" as you use it in this example?
 
code1211 said:
If you are looking for differences in the establishment politicians based on party affiliations, you will come up empty.

Our "opposing" political parties are as opposed to each other as professional wrestlers performing every night or actors playing antagonists in a movie.

The disagreements are make believe and advertised only to get a larger "gate".

Both of our political parties are completely and 100% devoted to a larger central government because keeping all of the money on one place makes it easier to steal.
Click to expand...

Yep, we can witness endless news reports about the fierce and ongoing competition between the party for a bigger federal government and the party for a huge federal government. There is no doubt whether federal power and expense will grow, depending on which party has the current majority in DC, the only thing holding us in suspense at all is how large that federal government growth will be.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Really this all you got, you are trying to reach back to the Civil War and Vietnam to talk about modern politics?

Okay Obama and Clinton were not members of the "small government" party, so shouldn't the GOP have supported gay marriage first? I am not a partisan hack, so I don't care about the Dems doing it too, you say its wrong for both parties to do something.

You are reaching pretty far back to make the Dems look like hawks and the Dems look like doves, recent history is different then history from the 50s, Bush started the war in Iraq and Trump seems to want to start wars with North Korea and maybe Iran.

The US spends more on defense then the next 7 countries combined, how is that reasonable spending?

Your whole post is just what aboutism.
Click to expand...

And as a conservative, I have zero issue cutting defense spending

But when the next hot spot happens, and it will...we won’t be sending our boys over to fix it

We can stop being the world police force....and when, China, or Russia, or some other county decides they want to annex land from someone that can’t fight back....we need to let them

You can’t have it both ways....either we will be the best armed, and trained military in the world....and will continue to lead the world carrying the proverbial big stick

O4 we can be more isolationalist....get out of NATO, and let Europe and the Far East handle their own messes

And that doesn’t even include the Middle East, or Africa which are their own nightmares

We have to decide as a nation....continue to be the big dog on the block, and protect everyone

Or back down, and let everyone wield their own military.....which would be my choice

Love to see how all the European countries would afford it.....since they can’t afford the puddly military they have now
 
SirGareth said:
Because we live in a dangerous world and if we have much better arms and much better training we have far fewer dead American boys





National defense is a "common good" (benefits all equally) The constitution provides for this, it does not provide for any of the alphabet soup "agencies"; all designed to rob Peter to pay Paul where Paul is usually some government union employee.



What Machine? The government teacher union machine? The tort lawyer machine? The government union machine? The welfare "rights" machine?
Click to expand...

1. How does creating more nukes help troops on the ground? Its not 1963, the US does not need more nukes, its a waste of money.

2. So were rules that had racial segeration in the military and banned gays from serving for the greater good? What is different about banning trans people from the military? I guess the peasants can never question their military overlords.

3. The GOP Fox News machine, the same people who gave us the Iraq War.
 
Yes_Minister said:
1. How does creating more nukes help troops on the ground? Its not 1963, the US does not need more nukes, its a waste of money.
Click to expand...

We are not "creating more nukes" we are still dismantling them and now have fewer nukes than Russia, a nation less than 1/2 our population. We are the only credible deterrence to tyranny left in the world.

Yes_Minister said:
2. So were rules that had racial segeration [sic] in the military and banned gays from serving for the greater good? What is different about banning trans people from the military? I guess the peasants can never question their military overlords.
Click to expand...

You must remember you are referring to the Military under under the Democrats Woodrow Wilson and FDR. Both were segregationists and racists

Here is the homophobe, Bill Clinton, channeling Jerry Falwell



Regarding leprechauns and transsexuals, they don't exist other than in fairy tales. There are no "trans" people. There ARE drag queens and butch lesbians. These people delude themselves into thinking that their bodies are constructed of the opposite sexes chromosome set. A man who wishes he was a woman is not a "transsexual" anymore than Don Knotts wishing he were a fish makes him a fish.

12466839_1300x1733.jpg

These "trans" people are psychotic, the military isn't an an insane asylum; both transsexuals and transspecies are incurably "nuts."

Yes_Minister said:
3. The GOP Fox News machine, the same people who gave us the Iraq War.
Click to expand...


Here is Hillary Clinton "channeling" Fox News

 
Last edited:
SirGareth said:
We are not "creating more nukes" we are still dismantling them and now have fewer nukes than Russia, a nation less than 1/2 our population. We are the only credible deterrence to tyranny left in the world.
Click to expand...

Not what Trump is thinking:

Trump 'wanted almost 10 times more nuclear weapons in US arsenal' | The Independent

SirGareth said:
You must remember you are referring to the Military under under the Democrats Woodrow Wilson and FDR. Both were segregationists and racists

Here is the homophobe, Bill Clinton, channeling Jerry Falwell

Click to expand...


If the Republicans are the small government party, shouldn't they have opposed him on this? Don't remember them doing that.

SirGareth said:
Regarding leprechauns and transsexuals, they don't exist other than in fairy tales. There are no "trans" people. There ARE drag queens and butch lesbians. These people delude themselves into thinking that their bodies are constructed of the opposite sexes chromosome set. A man who wishes he was a woman is not a "transsexual" anymore than Don Knotts wishing he were a fish makes him a fish.

View attachment 67226467

These "trans" people are psychotic, the military isn't an an insane asylum; both transsexuals and transspecies are incurably "nuts."
Click to expand...

I bet people in the past made the same arguments about black people, that were not real people and government power used against them is okay. Using government power against you don't like is okay right? Do you support militarized police abusing their power and killing people like Danial Shaver and Philando Castile? I guess your rights disappear in the presence of our militarized police overlords. Trans people, black people, gay people, there always seem to exceptions to your small government ideology.

And before you say "the Democrats did that" you seem to be ignoring that the Democrats and the Republican switched roles in the 60s, when the Republicans pursued the Southern Strategy.

Heck, we have Republicans calling Linclon a tyrant for his actions, this Party of Linclon stuff is a farce.

Hitler Was Like Abraham Lincoln, Lawmaker Larry Pittman Says | Time


SirGareth said:
Here is Hillary Clinton "channeling" Fox News

Click to expand...



So Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and the entire Bush administration did nothing to promote the Iraq War?

You seem to think I am sort of Democrat hack who worships people like Clinton and Obama, I am not, I care more about my personal ideology then any individual politician.

Your whole post is what aboutism, can you defend big government Republicans without mentioning Democrats?
 
Yes_Minister said:
Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism?
Click to expand...

Back in the day Republicans at least gave the appearance of being for fiscal conservatism, small government, and personal responsibility.

No more. That is why I abandoned the GOP.

Today's GOP has been hijacked by the Alt-Right/Bannon wing and Trumps Elitist/Populist wing.

It is also plain to everyone with eyes and ears that today's GOP is wholly owned by the wealthy/donor class.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Are Republicans actually for small government and individualism? They keep on saying they are for small government and individualism, but I have my doubts.

It seems like Republicans use social conservatism and religion to try to micromanage the lives of people they don't like, from opposing gay marriage to trying to ban trans gendered people from the military, they only support individual freedom of people they like.

Speaking of the military, all this talk of small government never applies to the military, the GOP always has money for the military industrial complex and wars they want to start, big military is big government, but they never seem to care about that. Debts created by military spending are considered irrelevant and speaking of debt, when is the last time a Republican Federal administration reduced the debt?

And here the big one, for their talk of individualism, Republicans seem to try to present who ever the Republican President is as some strong man leader who everyone should trust without question to take care of them and protect them, they did with Bush and they are doing it with Trump:

Opposing Bush becomes unpatriotic.

Republican individualism is a sham, its all about promoting group think, Republican individualism is about conformity, anyone who has an idea outside of their norms is not a real American. Remember when Fox News promoted the idea that opposing the Iraq war meant you hated freedom or were anti American? Republican freedom seems to mean you have the freedom to believe what they believe.
Click to expand...

All say they are, most aren't.

In the Republican party you have several different factions:
The Religious Right
Conservatives / Neo-Cons
Small Government Conservatives
Libertarians

The Top2 groups make up the majority and are not for small government and individualism. The bottom 2 are.

I didn't include the Alt-Right because they are largely irrelevant but they are not for small government and individualism. They are simply racist democrats that want big government but only for white people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom