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Why keep DACA?

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Not You and I

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Why not just naturalize those dreamers to become citizens? If DACA is only just going to be renewed, people will only just push the fear of deportation into the future instead.

I am an international student, and I have been seeing student activists on my University campus calling for the act to not be repealed, so I got interested and did some research.

President Trump rescinded the DREAM act and asked the Congress to do something about those people. Isn't this the chance for people to call on Congress to do something about this? To finally decide who will stay and who will be deported?

I'm not very knowledgeable about this, so please tell me your opinions.
 
Not You and I said:
Why not just naturalize those dreamers to become citizens? If DACA is only just going to be renewed, people will only just push the fear of deportation into the future instead.

I am an international student, and I have been seeing student activists on my University campus calling for the act to not be repealed, so I got interested and did some research.

President Trump rescinded the DREAM act and asked the Congress to do something about those people. Isn't this the chance for people to call on Congress to do something about this? To finally decide who will stay and who will be deported?

I'm not very knowledgeable about this, so please tell me your opinions.
Click to expand...

Exactly right.

DACA was a POLICY initiated by President Obama via Executive Order in June 2012. It has no force of law, as Congress has not taken any legislative action as of yet.

As such, like any other Executive Order, it is a policy that only remains in force as long as a subsequent President does not rescind it.

President Trump rescinded it September 5, 2017.

If American citizens who cry for this to be maintained really want it, then where is the push for legislative action on the part of their elected representatives in Congress?

Either make them full-citizens (or at least permanent resident aliens), or deport them and let them follow the standard application process.
 
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Not You and I said:
Why not just naturalize those dreamers to become citizens? If DACA is only just going to be renewed, people will only just push the fear of deportation into the future instead.

I am an international student, and I have been seeing student activists on my University campus calling for the act to not be repealed, so I got interested and did some research.

President Trump rescinded the DREAM act and asked the Congress to do something about those people. Isn't this the chance for people to call on Congress to do something about this? To finally decide who will stay and who will be deported?

I'm not very knowledgeable about this, so please tell me your opinions.
Click to expand...

Why not do it? Because the great majority of Dreamers are not white, and white nationalism is more influential than minorities within the GOP, and the GOP is not-so-slowly becoming the party of white people. All other rhetoric and legalese and excuses aside, that's the real crux of the issue. Why do you think that "birtherism" against Obama was so strong within the GOP that the titular head of the birther crowd - Donald Trump - was elected president?

Yes, I realize that there will be more than a few Republicans and conservatives out there who will greatly offended by the previous statement, but I really don't care. I'd rather be right than popular.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Why not do it? Because the great majority of Dreamers are not white, and white nationalism is more influential than minorities within the GOP, and the GOP is not-so-slowly becoming the party of white people. All other rhetoric and legalese and excuses aside, that's the real crux of the issue. Why do you think that "birtherism" against Obama was so strong within the GOP that the titular head of the birther crowd - Donald Trump - was elected president?

Yes, I realize that there will be more than a few Republicans and conservatives out there who will greatly offended by the previous statement, but I really don't care. I'd rather be right than popular.
Click to expand...

Hmm...No. :no:

It is because the entirety of the "Dreamers" are illegal aliens.

It is also because President Obama flouted immigration law via "Executive Order" in order to push a Progressive-Left globalist agenda.

Nationalism is not a wholly "white" phenomena, nor is it unique to the American political experience.

The idea is that we have a good thing going here, within OUR borders. So good that effectively EVERYONE outside our borders wants a piece of it. That's BILLIONS of people.

Still that in and of itself is not a problem, as I and most every other "nationalist" would welcome controlled immigration of any race, sex, or national origin if they:

1. Have something to offer to maintain our "good things," and

2. Follow the immigration rules with the intent to assimilate into American culture.

Yes, our culture, which built this system and makes it great. Otherwise, why not simply stay where one was born...and build THAT land up to be on par with the USA?

That doesn't mean you have to give up your language; feel free to speak it among friends and family.

However, for a culture to function there must be a standard language (just ask the Chinese how that works) to ensure effective communication, and that language is English here.

It doesn't mean you have to give up your cultural heritage either.

We have Little Italy's, Little Russia's, China- and Korea-towns, etc. scattered all over this nation. But for the most part, they and their children consider themselves AMERICAN.

It means a respect for our Constitution, and the rights of individuals. The work ethics, social mores, ideals, etc., that made this country great.

No, the problem with the "dreamers" and every other amnesty is that it creates an example for future mass migrations...anyone can come here regardless of motive and if you can "sneak in" and hide long enough some bleeding heart globalists will eventually figure out a way to let you stay.
 
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You think this is a race problem? Anyway, my point remains the same. The people can still call on their representatives both the Democrats and the Republicans to finally do something about it. Why are you so sure that it is a race problem before even there was a motion on this in Congress? Why is everything about race in America? It could be other things.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If American citizens who cry for this to be maintained really want it, then where is the push for legislative action on the part of their elected representatives in Congress?
Click to expand...

Congress will create a solution before a March deadline for nearly 800,000 immigrants who came to the United States illegally as children, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) told The Hill's Saturday HillCast.

During a wide-ranging interview for The Hill’s Power Politics podcast, McCarthy expressed confidence that a politically difficult impasse could be bridged in Congress within the next four months.
Click to expand...
McCarthy: Congress will hit March deadline on DACA solution | TheHill


More than 40 entertainers — including Scarlett Johansson, “Captain America” star Chris Evans, Julianne Moore, “Spotlight’s” Mark Ruffalo, Jennifer Lawrence and Don Cheadle — are calling on top Democrats to “uphold [their] promise” to young immigrants who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children.
Click to expand...
Top Hollywood stars call on Congress for DACA fix | TheHill


House conservatives have warned Speaker Paul Ryan against lumping a fix for undocumented immigrants who came to the country as minors into a year-end spending deal. They want him to keep the two issues separate and delay immigration negotiations into 2018 to increase their leverage — which both Ryan and the White House consider reasonable.
Click to expand...
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/21/congress-dreamers-government-shutdown-daca-250758


The fate of nearly 700,000 undocumented immigrants could blow up negotiations to keep the federal government running past this week.

The federal program that protects from deportation undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. before age 16 could be a bargaining chip as Congress faces a Friday deadline to pass a spending bill.

President Trump in September announced his plan to end the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program March 5 if Congress doesn't act.

Democrats insist that any year-end spending deal must include a solution for those undocumented immigrants, known as DREAMers, so they won't be deported. While some Republicans agree, most say the issue should be hammered out on its own, since Congress has more than two months before DACA shuts down.
Click to expand...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...reamers-which-could-come-head-week/943937001/


Why do you pretend an effort does not exist?
 
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Not You and I said:
Why is everything about race in America? It could be other things.
Click to expand...

You present a false dichotomy.

Why? History. It most certainly is other things as well, and those things are probably the primary factors, but race is always a factor. It's sociologically and historically ignorant to pretend race is not a factor in anything.
 
We should not nationalize criminals. Deport all of them.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Hmm...No. :no:

It is because the entirety of the "Dreamers" are illegal aliens.

It is also because President Obama flouted immigration law via "Executive Order" in order to push a Progressive-Left globalist agenda.

Nationalism is not a wholly "white" phenomena, nor is it unique to the American political experience.

The idea is that we have a good thing going here, within OUR borders. So good that effectively EVERYONE outside our borders wants a piece of it. That's BILLIONS of people.

Still that in and of itself is not a problem, as I and most every other "nationalist" would welcome controlled immigration of any race, sex, or national origin if they:

1. Have something to offer to maintain our "good things," and

2. Follow the immigration rules with the intent to assimilate into American culture.

Yes, our culture, which built this system and makes it great. Otherwise, why not simply stay where one was born...and build THAT land up to be on par with the USA?

That doesn't mean you have to give up your language; feel free to speak it among friends and family.

However, for a culture to function there must be a standard language (just ask the Chinese how that works) to ensure effective communication, and that language is English here.

It doesn't mean you have to give up your cultural heritage either.

We have Little Italy's, Little Russia's, China- and Korea-towns, etc. scattered all over this nation. But for the most part, they and their children consider themselves AMERICAN.

It means a respect for our Constitution, and the rights of individuals. The work ethics, social mores, ideals, etc., that made this country great.

No, the problem with the "dreamers" and every other amnesty is that it creates an example for future mass migrations...anyone can come here regardless of motive and if you can "sneak in" and hide long enough some bleeding heart globalists will eventually figure out a way to let you stay.
Click to expand...

Speaking on your English points every "dreamer" I know is completely fluent in English, moreso than even some native speakers who need subtitles when speaking English, and are fully assimilated and consider themselves American. They are educated and are assets to our country. I have no problem giving them opportunities to become citizens.
 
ecofarm said:
McCarthy: Congress will hit March deadline on DACA solution | TheHill

Why do you pretend an effort does not exist?
Click to expand...

You mistake me. Perhaps due to my poor phraseology.

Let's see:

The DREAM Act (acronym for Development, Relief, and Education for AlienMinors Act) is an American legislative proposal for a multi-phase process for qualifying alien minors in the United States that would first grant conditional residency and, upon meeting further qualifications, permanent residency. The bill was first introduced in the Senate on August 1, 2001, S. 1291 by United States Senators Dick Durbin (D- Illinois) and Orrin Hatch (R- Utah), and has since been reintroduced several times but has failed to pass.
Click to expand...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

August 1, 2001. That's ummm, 17 years ago. It was a bi-partisan bill re-introduced several times...that would include that period when Obama and Democrats controlled Congress and the White House. Yet it didn't get passed.

Now you are talking about the efforts? :coffeepap:
 
digsbe said:
We should not nationalize criminals. Deport all of them.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the Bible say not to blame children for crimes of their parents?
 
Captain Adverse said:
You mistake me. Perhaps due to my poor phraseology.

Let's see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

August 1, 2001. That's ummm, 17 years ago. It was a bi-partisan bill re-introduced several times...that would include that period when Obama and Democrats controlled Congress and the White House. Yet it didn't get passed.

Now you are talking about the efforts? :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

The push for legislation is wide spread and motivated. It was not needed until Sept. of this year.

It's ludicrous for you to indict support based on a time, the past, when legislation was not needed.
 
Not You and I said:
Why not just naturalize those dreamers to become citizens? If DACA is only just going to be renewed, people will only just push the fear of deportation into the future instead.

I am an international student, and I have been seeing student activists on my University campus calling for the act to not be repealed, so I got interested and did some research.

President Trump rescinded the DREAM act and asked the Congress to do something about those people. Isn't this the chance for people to call on Congress to do something about this? To finally decide who will stay and who will be deported?

I'm not very knowledgeable about this, so please tell me your opinions.
Click to expand...

The problem with "dreamers" is defining them and, of course, what to do with their illegal alien parents and siblings.

Asking "the undocumented" to document anything is problem #1. How does an "undocumented" 11 to 16 year old prove when they arrived and where they continuously were?

Dates of initial entry and periods of continuos residency are problem #2 - Obama used 6/15/07 as the latest entry by date (when a minor) and 6/15/12 as the when they had to be continuously here until date. That means that someone coming here on 6/16/07 (or after) is not a "dreamer" and if one went "back home" once to spend Xmas with or to bury granny (before 6/15/12) then they are also not a "dreamer".

Criminal records may also prove tricky since juvenile records are generally sealed and we are talking about "undocumented" folks that may not have any valid ID and more than likely have used someone else's ID. The definition of "serious" crime (making one unable to be a "dreamer") should include identity fraud but I have yet to see that defined.

Getting a landlord and especially an employer to attest to the fact that they knowingly rented to (harbored?) or hired an "undocumented" person may also prove to be a sticky legal situation. The bottom line is that have been guesstimates of between 750K and 2M such "undocumented" folks that may (or may not) claim the special limbo status of "dreamer".
 
americanwoman said:
Speaking on your English points every "dreamer" I know is completely fluent in English, moreso than even some native speakers who need subtitles when speaking English, and are fully assimilated and consider themselves American. They are educated and are assets to our country. I have no problem giving them opportunities to become citizens.
Click to expand...


Then why haven't they applied for their green card? What stopped the educated people from applying for a resident alien card?
They don't need to become citizens ...
 
ecofarm said:
The push for legislation is wide spread and motivated. It was not needed until Sept. of this year.

It's ludicrous for you to indict support based on a time, the past, when legislation was not needed.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me?

You so often make my point with your own ill-considered responses...you don't even realize it. :coffeepap:
 
Captain Adverse said:
Are you kidding me?

You so often make my point with your own ill-considered responses...you don't even realize it. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

Your "where is the support" was dishonest rhetoric. Whether denying current support or ignoring that support and looking to a time when legislation was not needed because policy was in place.

The only question is why you would employ obviously ignorant or dishonest rhetoric against the policy.
 
ecofarm said:
Doesn't the Bible say not to blame children for crimes of their parents?
Click to expand...

In case you haven't figured it out, digsbe and the rest of the fake Christians have absolutely no connection to the teachings of Christ.

Remember that time in the Bible when Jesus made a really big deal about where people were born and turned away those he deemed not similar enough to himself?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
In case you haven't figured it out, digsbe and the rest of the fake Christians have absolutely no connection to the teachings of Christ.
Click to expand...

Everyone keeps and discards bits of ones religion. I'm wondering why the innocence of children is cast aside in this instance.
 
Not You and I said:
Why not just naturalize those dreamers to become citizens? If DACA is only just going to be renewed, people will only just push the fear of deportation into the future instead.

I am an international student, and I have been seeing student activists on my University campus calling for the act to not be repealed, so I got interested and did some research.

President Trump rescinded the DREAM act and asked the Congress to do something about those people. Isn't this the chance for people to call on Congress to do something about this? To finally decide who will stay and who will be deported?

I'm not very knowledgeable about this, so please tell me your opinions.
Click to expand...

They can't be naturalized. They are illegal immigrants that broke the law.
 
Allow them to stay as permanent resident aliens if a deal can be made to end chain migration & build the wall to eliminate
more illegals. Cut in half HB1 visas and a deal could be made. Otherwise they will be contemplating this subject decades from now.
 
slick said:
Allow them to stay as permanent resident aliens if a deal can be made to end chain migration & build the wall to eliminate
more illegals. Cut in half HB1 visas and a deal could be made. Otherwise they will be contemplating this subject decades from now.
Click to expand...

H1bs should be reformed not cut. They do jobs that americans cant do. I am a programmer so i work with a lot of smart people on H1bs. Companies will just move jobs to india if these visas are cut. It's sad trump is going after these people who followed the law and came here instead of illegal mexican invaders. It's better to be undocumented than legal. govt pays your welfare and insurance and they dont pay any taxes. While h1b workers that have high paying jobs and pay taxes and arent a burden to society have their families broken apart because of xenophobia.
 
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