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GOP poised to win the PR war

beancounter said:
Debt will increase because revenue will decrease. So for example, let's say program A cost $10 to operate. If your tax revenues were $10 before the tax cut, you could pay for it without any issues. But now, with the cut, tax revenues will only be $6, so in order to maintain program A, you will have to borrow $4.

As an alternative to borrowing, the GOP will likely slash and burn such programs to balance the budget.
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Well there are alternatives.
- Cut such programs, but that won't happen. Never does since the programs were born from borrowed money with no concern for revenue to begin with. After all, the debt had doubled with nary a thought of revenue.
- The other possibility is that the economy doesn't have to be as static as it had been and revenues will grow as the economy grows. For that we'll have to see.
 
iguanaman said:
LOL Spending is a given, revenue is determined by tax rates passed by Congress. The difference is what causes debt.
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The difference is what causes deficits.
 
bubbabgone said:
You're talking about deficits.
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Deficits become debt. What's your point? My point id that most of this is both unwise an unnecessary. The main beneficiaries of this thing are already sitting on hordes of cash.

The price tag for this is estimated to be 1.5 trillion. Where did you think that money was coming from?
 
Trump supporters. Meat with eyes.
 
gdgyva said:
and those are the elephants in the room that neither side has been willing to tackle for decades now

should they be addressed? you bet

will they? probably not

this congress will continue to kick the can down the road till there is no road left....like every congress before

all sides know the three elephants are defense, social security, and medicare

that is the only place serious cuts CAN come from....but neither D or R congresses have had the stones to address the issues

so they just keep adding debt....more deficits and it doesnt matter what side is in power

i would love it IF they actually would seriously talk about those 3 elephants....and work out how we are going to deal with them

but i seriously doubt that will happen....no matter what the talking heads are saying right now
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SS is easily fixed. Medicare is a problem, but it needs to be solved or we go back to the turn of the century. You can look up what "retirement" was then (unknown concept for most), how many hours people worked and how many died on the job.

I could retire with the money I've saved + the money I've paid into SS, but health care expenses would probably become an issue - IF the money I paid into SS was invested in some reasonable untaxed vehicle. However, I'm working with the system the USA gave me. On top of that, if stats are to be believed, most are not even that lucky.

Of course, the GOP donor class (those this bill is for) don't give a rats ass. They are fat and happy, many with money they never did a lick of work for.
 
CriticalThought said:
I think the Dems blew it. They did their Chicken Little routine on the tax bill but they lost the message. The GOP has branded this bill as a "tax cut for the middle class" and on the end of the day, more than 80 percent of Americans will see a tax cut their first year. Yeah, some future Congress may allow the individual rates to go up, but it is unlikely. So the Dems who successfully allied with the national media to create the impression that this was only a tax cut for the wealthy may have done a disservice to themselves in the long run. Granted that the wealthy will enjoy six times the benefits as the rest of us combined, but that doesn't make as compelling a soundbyte as "Armageddon!"

The message could have been on debt, high interest rates, rising inflation, and low wages. Once consumer confidence peaks, reality will likely set in, and the true cost of this bill will not be measured by how much of your paycheck you get to keep, but if your paycheck remains the same wage, buys less than it did before, and is split in more ways to pay down debts. The GOP knows nothing is free, and they are betting that average Americans will forget it and reward them for generously undermining their future to finance a measly middle class tax cut and a massive wealthy tax cut. Let's see how it plays out. My money is on the GOP.
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Of course it would be, wishful thinking does not come cheap.
 
MrPeanut said:
The bill was very unpopular. I think Dems won the PR war pretty handily. The PR war doesn't always translate to actual votes on legislation.
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Not so fast. The crack is being handed out. The addict won't face withdrawal for a couple of years.

It's pretty easy to borrow a ton of money and goose the economy. That's all the GOP is doing here.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Not so fast. The crack is being handed out. The addict won't face withdrawal for a couple of years.

It's pretty easy to borrow a ton of money and goose the economy. That's all the GOP is doing here.
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Yep, which is why the demorats may not fare well in 2018 yet may, in fact, win in 2020 when the reality of reduced revenue and no major economic boom results (especially if a trade war with China is attempted). The "mandated" cuts in spending (due to revenue reduction) take effect the year after (2019) so all is well for the 2018 election cycle.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Deficits become debt. What's your point? My point id that most of this is both unwise an unnecessary. The main beneficiaries of this thing are already sitting on hordes of cash.

The price tag for this is estimated to be 1.5 trillion. Where did you think that money was coming from?
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Deficits can be reduced by revenue increases, provided spending doesn't outpace revenue.
Debt has historically increased without much regard to revenue ... deficits follow.
I think you may have become accustomed to terrible economic growth that has kept revenue lower than it would have been with a better economy.
Among other things, this tax bill is intended to remedy that. If it does, it would be seen as wise and necessary.

From what you said, I have to ask, do you think cash belongs to the Government rather than the people sitting on those hordes, whether large and small?
 
<alt>doxygen said:
And the debt will rise.

People do love "free stuff".

This is the Repub Santa, with 1.5 trillion in presents in his bag. The Repub Grinch will be along in a year or 2 trying to pay for it by stealing from SS and Medicare.

America is pretty myopic.
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The left could care less whether the debt rises.
 
MrPeanut said:
The bill was very unpopular. I think Dems won the PR war pretty handily. The PR war doesn't always translate to actual votes on legislation.
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The bill was only unpopular with many Republican voters because it added to the debt. The left tries to make us believe that the bill is unpopular because it favors the wealthy, which is not the case with Republican voters. Democratic politicians could have crossed over and voted to make the individual tax cuts permanent but they are more concerned with being the resistance than giving the middle class permanent tax cuts.
 
GDViking said:
Really because trump promised he would be a big loser from this tax plan and that the wealthy would not benefit.

You were conned.
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Trump promised tax cuts to the middle class. He delivered on his promise. Who cares that the wealthy get more?
 
Rogue Valley said:
I know I won't forget who authored this tax giveaway to the wealthy.

Their next target is the safety-net programs -- SS, Medicare, Medicaid.

Polls indicate that Trump/GOP has already lost the younger generation.

This will ensure they also lose the support of seniors (65+) and the overwhelming number of citizens approaching retirement (55-65).

10,000 Americans are retiring every day now and this wave will continue for the next 19 years.
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Good! SS, Medicare, and Medicaid all need reforming too.
 
Moderate Right said:
The left could care less whether the debt rises.
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Many Americans, both citizens and "grammar experts" think people who speak like this are incompetent speakers.
 
YorkshirePete said:
The repubs are better at appealing to the lowest uneducated rube common denominator
"it's my money"
Don't care if they get $50 and screw the rest.
The good old American way
Unbelievably selfish
I guess they have no prob sucking off their socialist VA SS Medicare benefits
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And the Dems are very good at appealing to the taker mentality and keeping the poor in a cycle of poverty that never ends. In other words, appealing to the lowest uneducated rube common denominator.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
On the other hand, how can anyone celebrate a bill that robs you blind?
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Who is it robbing? About 80% get a tax break. Oh, wait a minute. I know who it robs - those wealthy people in high taxed states who can't claim any more than $10,000 in deductions for state, local, and property taxes. Poor babies. Funny how the left complain about rich people in high taxed states getting robbed.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Deficits become debt. What's your point? My point id that most of this is both unwise an unnecessary. The main beneficiaries of this thing are already sitting on hordes of cash.

The price tag for this is estimated to be 1.5 trillion. Where did you think that money was coming from?
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Since when does the left care about the debt?
 
<alt>doxygen said:
Not so fast. The crack is being handed out. The addict won't face withdrawal for a couple of years.

It's pretty easy to borrow a ton of money and goose the economy. That's all the GOP is doing here.
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So, the stock market going up, gooses the economy?
 
Moderate Right said:
Who is it robbing? About 80% get a tax break. Oh, wait a minute. I know who it robs - those wealthy people in high taxed states who can't claim any more than $10,000 in deductions for state, local, and property taxes. Poor babies. Funny how the left complain about rich people in high taxed states getting robbed.
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Let’s see it robs the Americans of money that can be used to fund education.

It creates a deficit intentionally in order to justify unnecessary spending cuts.

It raises taxes on Americans by removing tax deductions.

It further fuels the growing income inequality in this country.
 
camlok said:
Many Americans, both citizens and "grammar experts" think people who speak like this are incompetent speakers.
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What? Are you trying to dodge the truth by giving me an English lesson?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Let’s see it robs the Americans of money that can be used to fund education. And how does it do this?

It creates a deficit intentionally in order to justify unnecessary spending cuts. Cuts need to be made. When did the left start caring about the debt?

It raises taxes on Americans by removing tax deductions. Really? The standard deduction is doubled, which helps out the poorer and state, local, and property tax deductions are limited to $10,000 which hurts the rich

It further fuels the growing income inequality in this country.So? The poor get richer. Who cares what happens to the other guy?
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.....
 
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Moderate Right said:
What? Are you trying to dodge the truth by giving me an English lesson?
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No, I'm defending your language use against people who know little about the English language. Carry on with your truth.
 
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